Polyphasic Sleep

[Tertsi]

There's a post about Polyphasic Sleep on Steve Pavlina's site. (Taking six 20-30 minute naps every day and thus sleeping only two hours a day).
(You'll have up to 42 hours more free time per week.)

I'm now very interested about it. But I don't think I should try it before he's been doing it a month because he if anyone can tell if he's cognitive abilities have decreased after a month or if he's health somehow suffers. (Which I doubt because he's a vegan and thus probably gets a lot of the vitamins without sleep).

I'd start trying it immediately but because that 10+ days of transition basically means that you'll be a zombie for at least a week, I could definitely use his analysis about that sleeping method.

So the reason I posted this here is to see how many of you are interested in this also and if anyone of you has ever tried it for longer than three weeks.

[AlexN]

This is stupid, you really can't steal time from sleep schedule. Most adults need at least 8 hours of sleep.

[Tertsi]

Don't say so before you've researched AND tested it. That's an useless comment.

Those 20 minute naps include over 15 minutes of REM each once you get used to it. so you'll get at least the normal amount of REM sleep.

[PoV]

Other research says sleeping less hurts your intellectual potential. If you feel smart enough, then try it, but there's a bunch of crap opposing shorter shedules to see here:

http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm

[Anthony Flack]

Jesus Christ. This is why I was glad to make the changeover to indiegamer.

[HairyTroll]

Originally Posted by Tertsi

Don't say so before you've researched AND tested it. That's an useless comment.

I don't have to research [smoke] and test [get lung cancer] myself to know that smoking is bad for you.

[soniCron]

Originally Posted by HairyTroll

I don't have to research [smoke] and test [get lung cancer] myself to know that smoking is bad for you.

So you know this is bad for you?

[Adrian Cummings]

Hehe I pretty much feel like I have slept like that my whole life from an early age... oh and I smoke (cigars now mind) and drink one hell of a lot of wine but I'm still here (just about!).

[Tertsi]

The only reason you need to test it before you can say with certainty that it isn't right for you is that there's no clear scientific evidence that we can't adapt to it and use it long-term. Some fameous people like Leonardo Da Vinci have reportedly used this sleeping method for over ten years (I don't know how long exactly but long enough to know that they remained creative and intelligent and actually lived longer than usual (none of this isn't proved except the age)).

I'm not saying that this isn't bad for you. I'm saying that just because you are taught to get 8 hour sleep doesn't mean that you shouldn't try anything else.

For example 2.5 hours of core-sleep with four 20 minute naps is a lot safer than this method yet you'll get a lot of the benefits.

Since you're all being so pessimistic about this I won't waste any more of my time trying to explain why I think this could work but I do think you should at least read what Steve has to say about it after he's tried it enough.

[soniCron]

Originally Posted by Tertsi

For example 2.5 hours of core-sleep with four 20 minute naps is a lot safer than this method yet you'll get a lot of the benefits.

Why do you claim it is safer? I was under the impression that it was largly unstudied...

[Tertsi]

Well it may not be safer in reality but it's more like our current method and you get more other forms of sleep than REM sleep that way. It seems to me that SWS sleep (totally relaxed, rarely dreaming) and REM sleep are the only really useful forms of sleep and you don't get much SWS sleep with the Polyphasic Sleep but you get it with the core-sleep + nap method.

[princec]

This is another one of those loony ideas that I can file alongside "raw food diets" etc. etc. These things are easy to spot from a mile off. They are the complementary concepts to such shockers as "Eating vegetables reduces risk of cancer" and "Exercising just once a week reduces risk of heart disease".

Some of you may not be aware but as we age we require far less sleep. A 20 year old normally sleeps for a good solid 8 hours a day but by the time you're 40 you'll be needing only 6. And by the time you're 60 you'll get by on 5.

And some of you may also not be aware that different people require radically different amounts of sleep. 8hrs might be a lot for someone; 4hrs might be enough for someone else.

The New Scientist had an article on this a few years ago.

Cas

[electronicStar]

Originally Posted by Tertsi

Well it may not be safer in reality but it's more like our current method and you get more other forms of sleep than REM sleep that way. It seems to me that SWS sleep (totally relaxed, rarely dreaming) and REM sleep are the only really useful forms of sleep and you don't get much SWS sleep with the Polyphasic Sleep but you get it with the core-sleep + nap method.

Let's put aside the fact that there might be more than just two "useful" sleep states, and also the fact that sleep shouldn't be managed and should be considered as a "bank" period , or a period of no activity that shouldn't be rationalized.
The polyphasic sleep will probably give you all your needs of REM sleep, ie the sleep that regenerates your nervous system. Your cortex will be satisifed and you'll have the impression that you are fully rested. But the truth is that we don't know exactly how much "SWS sleep" our body needs as there is no immediate feedback about that. I doubt that 2.5 hours are enough to repair cellular damage and stock energy and do all the (mostly unknown to science) things the body does to regenerate itself. And your conscious self might not realize that your body is worn off until a problem happens.
There is probably a good reason why our species chose (during its evolution) the proportional repartition of 1 hour SWS+30' REM cycles on a 6 to 8 hours period.
Moreover, on the practical aspect, you might have more trouble trying to cram several half-hours of sleep in your daily schedule than benefits of time saved.

[ggambett]

Originally Posted by AlexN

This is stupid, you really can't steal time from sleep schedule. Most adults need at least 8 hours of sleep.

When confronted with this idea, in order of increasing stupidness, you can

1) Actually try it
2) Say "I don't know if it works or not"
97) Say "this is stupid"

[princec]

0. Do some research first instead of believing everything anyone says on the internet ("I hear that hanging from the ceiling increases blood flow to the brain")

Cas

[Ratboy]

I'm 41, and I get by on 4-5 hours and a couple of half-hour naps per day. If I actually get 8 hours in one shot, I feel exhausted for most of the morning and get nothing at all done.

[Robert Cummings]

This is so dumb.

A lot of steve pavalinas stuff is idiotic. I can't understand how people idolise what is basically an idiot. If he tried to make a game now he'd fail, just like that. He got lucky.

His motivational stuff comes right from the motivational books he reads. I mean come on people?

Let me put it to you this way if the majority of non nocturnal animals sleep all night (us included) what makes you think for one minute pissing over all that is going to improve anything?

If pavalina wants to be like doctor X (so much to do / so little time to do it) then let him, but he's ruining his mental health... because he won't be able to go long periods without one of his special power naps. Then where does that leave him? Owned, thats where.

[Robert Cummings]

Next he'll probably experiment yo yo'ing his poo poo. Feel free to delete this post.

[ggambett]

Originally Posted by Ratboy

I'm 41, and I get by on 4-5 hours and a couple of half-hour naps per day. If I actually get 8 hours in one shot, I feel exhausted for most of the morning and get nothing at all done.

No no, you're wrong. You feel terrible and/or are already dead by doing that, but you're in denial. It doesn't matter it appears to work for you, it can't work, because it's stupid, and it's stupid because it can't work. If you have any questions about this flawless reasoning, just ask Robert or Alex. Now stop pretending you feel good!

[Tertsi]

How nice Robert.

[Steve Ince]

Originally Posted by princec

Some of you may not be aware but as we age we require far less sleep. A 20 year old normally sleeps for a good solid 8 hours a day but by the time you're 40 you'll be needing only 6. And by the time you're 60 you'll get by on 5.

When I was 20 I used to get by on 4-5 hours of sleep quite regularly. Now I'm in my forties I'm really irritable if I don't get plenty (7-8 hours).

[Savant]

No no, you're wrong. You feel terrible and/or are already dead by doing that, but you're in denial. It doesn't matter it appears to work for you, it can't work, because it's stupid, and it's stupid because it can't work. If you have any questions about this flawless reasoning, just ask Robert or Alex. Now stop pretending you feel good!

He's not doing what is being suggested. Hence, his experience doesn't support your opinion.

[Anthony Flack]

When confronted with this idea, in order of increasing stupidness, you can

1) Actually try it

So, the least stupid thing you can do, when confronted with a controversial plan, is to go right ahead and do it?

[ggambett]

Originally Posted by Anthony Flack

So, the least stupid thing you can do, when confronted with a controversial plan, is to go right ahead and do it?

I wasn't talking about "a controversial plan" - I clearly said When confronted with this idea. The best thing you can do with this particular idea, if you want to coment at all, is try and see what happens. It probably won't kill you.

If you don't try it, the next best thing is saying "I haven't tried nor known anyone who has tried so I can't say if it works or not", which is where I stand now. Just STFU and follow Steve's blog. There's an actual guy who is trying it, so why not read about a first-hand experience?

What I don't understand is the people who say "this won't work, this is stupid, this can't work" instead of at least waiting to see what happens to Steve. That's very close-minded and extremely unscientific too.

[terin]

This is a funny thread.

Why on earth would you do this? So you can get 48 hours more awake time? Hell, even if it works and is completely harmless... Sleep is my favorite freakin part of the day!

When I retire I plan on sleeping 12-15 hours a day... maybe more!

Why would you ever want to take that away from yourself ... no game could ever be worth that....

I think I prefer sleeping to sex even... well, almost.

I'm gonna go take a nap. See you in 8 hours... before I get up and work for 30 minutes before taking a brief snooze.

I love weekends!
-Joe

[Ricardo C]

From Steve's blog:

Concentrating is difficult, even just to type this update. I felt very zombie-like this morning, and it was all downhill from there. Getting back to regular zombie would require an upgrade from my current state of being an armless, legless zombie. Mentally I don’t think I made it past a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 all day. At one time I spent about 90 minutes lying on the couch staring off into space as various family members drifted by. Some of them tried to engage me, but I can’t recall much of what happened. That was actually semi-peaceful, as I was so tired that my mind felt switched off, absent of thought. I vaguely recall hearing someone utter the phrase, “Ok, Egon’s gone bye-bye.” In some ways it was like a meditation. I was aware without thinking. It reminded me of a Three Stooges episode where Curly gets bonked on the head and says, “Look at the grouse,” as he stares blankly off into space.

Oh yeah, this is working out GREAT for him

[Tertsi]

Lol Ricardo, he is in day two. He needs AT LEAST 10 days to adopt like everyone else.

[Anthony Flack]

I wasn't talking about "a controversial plan" - I clearly said When confronted with this idea. The best thing you can do with this particular idea, if you want to coment at all, is try and see what happens. It probably won't kill you.

If you don't try it, the next best thing is saying "I haven't tried nor known anyone who has tried so I can't say if it works or not", which is where I stand now. Just STFU and follow Steve's blog. There's an actual guy who is trying it, so why not read about a first-hand experience?

You're right, it, er, probably won't kill you. In the short term, at least. And maybe it's not harmful at all; that's possible, although it would seem to go against everything your body is telling you is the right thing to do.

But I won't be trying it out myself. I don't have the luxury of being able to try out these kinds of experiments on myself; I have responsibilities to take care of. Besides, I question the motivation behind it. I don't want to maximise the self-actualising potential of every moment of every day. I don't think it's a healthy thing for me to do; there are certain figety high-metabolism people that need to keep themselves on the go all the time, but most people aren't wired like that. Steve Pavlina is a very strange creature. I push myself hard enough as it is, and already feel like I don't get enough rest.

Just STFU and follow Steve's blog. There's an actual guy who is trying it, so why not read about a first-hand experience?

Well, there you go. If you're interested in this sort of thing, that would be a more sensible approach than just jumping in and doing it.

[HunterSD]

What a stupid, cheap shot. He said at the start that he expected to feel like this for a week or so. Transition periods (stopping smoking, changing sleeping patterns, excercise) are always tough. Will it work out in the end? Who knows. But of course he'll be feeling like that now.

Edit: Beaten to the punch.

[Ricardo C]

Originally Posted by Tertsi

Lol Ricardo, he is in day two. He needs AT LEAST 10 days to adopt like everyone else.

I know I just thought it was funny how he keeps trying to see the upside of the whole thing: "It was a lot like meditation" "I was aware even without thinking" "I cooked two great dishes".

I just hope he doesn't pass out at an unfortunate time, like trying to walk down a flight of stairs or in the shower.

A few times, I've gone on 2-3 hours of sleep, followed by periodic naps, it was enough for me to know I could never make it through a week, even with all the promised rewards.