GT - Help - Player's Choice Nominees (2007 version)

[cyrus_zuo]

As I've done in years past (one year to the day!) I've come again asking for your help in figuring out what games to consider for the Player's Choice award.

The award itself will be done as it has been done the last couple of years (registered poll in the forums).

My current list of games that potentially should be included has exactly 50 games on it.
My goal: a list of around 25 games.

If you have a minute I'd love help figuring out what should stay and what should go Take a look at the list.
> What games aren't on the list that should be?
> What games are on the list that DEFINITELY should STAY on the list?

As always, the help is MUCH appreciated. The awards are a huge undertaking and all the comments and feedback help in figuring them out!

For the curious, the calendar of when articles will be added to the website will be posted within the next few days. The first award (Sports again this year) will be on the 11th...

Guiding principles:
- GT doesn't cover flash or other online webgames (we don't have the bandwidth or background to do so)
- GT doesn't often cover freeware (there is a lot of good stuff, so we make the occasional exception, but again we don't have the bandwidth or background to cover it properly)
- Mostly we let GameZebo talk about Casual games, but we will include the more indie ones (i.e. Chocolate Castle, Professor Fizzwizzle)
- Any game listed should have been released between 11/25/06 and 12/03/07

MUCH THANKS!!!

Games
Aquaria
Auto Cross Racing
Band of Bugs
Brass Hats
Cave Days
Chocolate Castle
Chromadrome 2
Darkside: Arklight 2
Depths of Peril
Determinance
Eschalon: Book I
Fatal Hearts
Galcon
Geneforge 4
Global Conflicts: Palestine
Hap Hazard
Hard Time
Immortal Defense
Jets'n'Guns Gold
Joystick Johnny
King Mania
Knytt Stories
Kudos: Rock Legend
Loonyland II: Winter Woods
Machines at War
Mr. Robot
Mutant
Nethergate: Resurrection
Pathstorm
PeaceMaker
President Forever 2008 + Primaries
Professor Fizzwizzle and the Molten Mystery
Rack'em Up Roadtrip
Reach
RomanBowl
Sam & Max Episode 4: Abe Lincoln Must Die
Scavenger
Sleepless Hollow
Snapshot Adventures: Secret of Bird Island
Star Defender 4
The Tuttles Madcap Misadventures
ThreadSpace: Hyperbol
Total Pro Golf 2
TV Station Manager
Urban Legend
Venture Arctic
Virtual Villagers 2
Wonderland Adventures
Words Kingdom
ZSX3: Ninjastarmageddon!

[lakibuk]

I'd like to see DROD - The City Beneath on the list.

[Midnight Synergy]

Hi Russell,

this one is always a fun one - and I'm hoping Wonderland Adventures makes the list, then I can send Wonderlanders from my forums your way to duke it out with the other participants.

As for my "definitely stay" list:
Chocolate Castle
Hap Hazard
Knytt Stories
Kudos: Rock Legend
Mr. Robot
Professor Fizzwizzle and the Molten Mystery
Star Defender 4
Wonderland Adventures

I think I would also like to see Azada on the list... it really opened the door for a potential "new" genre, the 7th guest style mini-puzzle adventure.

Patrick

[papillon]

Any game listed should have been released between 11/25/06 and 12/03/07

Doesn't that technically rule out Aquaria? (And it probably should, since not enough people will have played it to vote properly.)

IIRC their release date is 12/07/07

[barrygamer]

Haven't played all on that list, but my definite 'keepers' would be:
Chocolate Castle and Kudos: Rock Legend. Others which IMO deserve their place: Professor Fizzwizzle, Mr. Robot, Joystick Johnny.
[EDIT: Gametunnel never reviewed Devastro?]

[cyrus_zuo]

Originally Posted by papillon

Doesn't that technically rule out Aquaria? (And it probably should, since not enough people will have played it to vote properly.)

IIRC their release date is 12/07/07

I'm not sure about the number of people who will have played it, because it's gotten a much larger community together than many of the games on the list, but the date could rule out Aquaria I suppose. However, I do keep some wiggle room on the dates, getting too firm isn't what I'm aimimg for.

Though the dates do get hard when massive games like Aveyond 2 come out on the 5th! Frankly there is no way I'll have enough time to play and evaluate an RPG this late in the year . I'm dieing in overwellming work to get the articles together as it is. (and yet I may try to anyway...tell my kids to have a great Christmas without me )

[Ryan Clark]

Definitely stay:
Aquaria
Band of Bugs
Chocolate Castle
Galcon
Immortal Defense
Knytt Stories
Mr. Robot
PeaceMaker
Venture Arctic
Wonderland Adventures


Add in:
Dwarf Fortress -- it's free, but I've wasted SO much time with it. Amazing game.


Thanks for all your hard work, Russell! Game Tunnel's end of the year awards are always one of the highlights of my year!

[Agent 4125]

Chocolate Castle
Determinance
Hard Time
Immortal Defense
Jets'n'Guns Gold
Mr. Robot
RomanBowl

[jankoM]

Another wote for DROD - The City Beneath to be on that list.

[GolfHacker]

I'll cast another vote for DROD!

I haven't played any games on this list, except for Prof Fizzwizzle. Please keep that one on the list.

I would have liked to see Fashion Cents Deluxe on the list, but I suppose that is more of a casual/kids game and probably wouldn't resonate much with your mostly-male audience. Though most of my female customers and fans would have flocked to your site to vote for it. Oh, well.

At any rate, I'll also pass along my thanks, Russell! I, too, look forward to GT's year-end coverage. I know it's a lot of work, but I appreciate it. It's one of the highlights of the year for me.

[tafty]

More "keep" votes for:

Chocolate Castle
Joystick Johnny
Knytt Stories
Mr Robot

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by cyrus_zuo

Guiding principles:
- GT doesn't cover flash or other online webgames (we don't have the bandwidth or background to do so)

Nice...

I don't quite understand why you need more "bandwidth" to cover web games. Who says you have to host the games?

I'm not saying it's GT's responsibility to cover all the billions of web games out there. But if IGF is able to judge a few standout browser-based games, then I would think GameTunnel should be able to so as well.

It's just a little frustrating to me because there's a perception in certain circles that Flash and other Web-based games aren't "real" games. And then with GT totally ignoring web-games just seems to reinforce this it seems.

The browser is just another platform. It would be just like not including a Mac-only game because you don't have the "background" of the Apple market. But a game is a game. If a game meets the content standards, then I think it should be considered for the yearly awards.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

It's just a little frustrating to me because there's a perception in certain circles that Flash and other Web-based games aren't "real" games. And then with GT totally ignoring web-games just seems to reinforce this it seems.

Why be frustrated with blind people Chris?
Everyone who able to see and accept the truth as is knows that the time of online games already came. And looks like future belongs to online games ONLY.

Anyway this remark doesn't have any connection to GT policy - this is their right to decide what do they like to promote.

PS Nice list of games for me.

[DrWilloughby]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

I don't quite understand why you need more "bandwidth" to cover web games. Who says you have to host the games?

He doesn't mean literal bandwidth -- he means that they simply don't have time to review web games since there are so many of them. He's gotta draw an arbitrary line somewhere of what GameTunnel covers, since he hardly even has time to cover downloadable try-and-buy indie content. Seems like this is as good a place to draw the line as any. I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with web games being less interesting or "low-class".

[cyrus_zuo]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Nice...

I don't quite understand why you need more "bandwidth" to cover web games. Who says you have to host the games?

I'm not saying it's GT's responsibility to cover all the billions of web games out there. But if IGF is able to judge a few standout browser-based games, then I would think GameTunnel should be able to so as well.

It's just a little frustrating to me because there's a perception in certain circles that Flash and other Web-based games aren't "real" games. And then with GT totally ignoring web-games just seems to reinforce this it seems.

The browser is just another platform. It would be just like not including a Mac-only game because you don't have the "background" of the Apple market. But a game is a game. If a game meets the content standards, then I think it should be considered for the yearly awards.

Bandwidth means personnel in this case. You brought up the IGF, so let's talk about it.
- IGF awards, 49 judges 173 games (web, downloadable, pc, freeware).
- GT's awards, handful of reviewers, 140 downloadable games.

So they have the bandwidth to hit the games, but we just don't. IN FACT, looking at those numbers, we are taking on way too much already .

IF we had tons of people in the process it could be different, and I think it would be interesting to have tons of staff at GT to work on stuff, but just organizing it would be a full time job, and despite my best efforts, GT doesn't pay. Hence there is no way to even consider it.

Hopefully that helps to explain the situation. GT knows the downloadable for sale side of PC pretty well, we have no expertise in web games and no ability to expand. It's not a knock on the games . I hope someone starts a site up that covers them more earnestly!

(Edit: Just saw that Andy Schatz beat me to the punch , I saw your post and immediately wanted to clear up the confusion, should have looked first )

[Coyote]

Hmmm....

Nethergate? Check.
Fatal Hearts? Check.
Eschalon: Book 1? Check.
Depths of Peril? Check.
Generforge 4? Check.
Band of Bugs? Check.
Sam and Max (pick an episode)? Check.
Loonyland II? Check.
Peacemaker? Check.
Kudos Rock Legend? Check.

The only one that didn't seem to make the list that I could think of (considering my own bias) would be Grimm's Hatchery, which I *think* didn't get released until January of this year.

[cyrus_zuo]

Thanks for the suggestions

So far, if I didn't miss anything:
Adds:
DROD - The City Beneath
Aveyond 2

Maybes:
Fashion Cents Deluxe (I took a look at it, and while it is well improved over the original game, which I was already a fan of, I'm not sure it is different enough to take it through the awards again)
Dwarf Fortress (is it considered 'released'?)
Azada (I liked it, but it feels a bit more casual and less Indie than we typically go for...maybe should be considered for the Casual GOTY award as part of the awards, but don't know about player's choice)
Devastro (I don't remember why we didn't look at it? I remember having it in queue, so maybe it was pulled out so that the game could be improved upon? Or a publishing deal? Those are common reasons for me to drop games from the queue...but I don't remember on this one, probably should take a look)
Grimm's Hatchery (If I add Aveyond 2, I'll likely not include GH, it would be hard for any community to vote for 2 games, and my guess is that A2 is the better of the two games, if not than GH should be included)

Removes:
?

Appreciate the help!

[GolfHacker]

Thanks for considering Fashion Cents Deluxe, Russell. I'm pretty sure the original version was released before you started doing year-end awards; however, you guys did write a review of the original version in connection with the 2004 IGF, and you did feature it in a voting poll connected with the 2004 IGF too, so I'm grateful!

[Roman Budzowski]

What about Runes of Avalon? (though it was not covered by GT so I don't know if it counts).


cheers
Roman

[zoombapup]

Hey Russ,

If you need any extra manpower for anything, just let me know.

I'd probably take Rack Em up Roadtrip off that list. GG doesnt really need the press or money and although theyre indie, theyre kind of not indie anymore (since the whole IAC buyout and all).

Not that I dislike the game, but if its one less to worry about, it saves a bit of time.

Most on the list I'd keep, but I'm not sure about RomanBowl, it didnt feel that well produced (at least the demo I tried).

[cyrus_zuo]

Yeah, the sports games are kinda lackluster. Reach was pretty good, but it was two years ago that we got New Star Soccer 3, and honestly since that game I don't think I've played a sports game that really 'moved' me. They've all been good, worthy of mention, but not stellar titles (granted NSS3 is a hard comparison for most games b/c it is so good).

RomanBowl I do like, but you are probably right that both it and Rack 'em Up perhaps should not be in the Player's choice awards. (and I really appreciate you being the only person so far willing to take on what should be removed. I have to cut the list in half . It's good to get an idea of what people think shouldn't be in the player's choice).


@ Roman > I'll add Runes to my maybe list.

[cyrus_zuo]

Thanks for all the help, the voting poll is up!
http://www.gametunnel.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1706

As is the calendar of the awards on the front page. First one is the 11th!

[lakibuk]

Do you guys base your vote on the demo version? I've only seen two full versions of the games and for most of the games not even the demo.

[cyrus_zuo]

Originally Posted by lakibuk

Do you guys base your vote on the demo version? I've only seen two full versions of the games and for most of the games not even the demo.

Who are you referring to as 'you guys?'
GT reviews full versions.
However, the player's choice really isn't about us . It's about the users, who I assume don't play all the games and pick and choose what to vote for based on the ones they've played the most of. Ultimately I figure most people haven't bought more than 1 or 2 games off the list and are likely to vote for what they purchased .

[lakibuk]

Originally Posted by cyrus_zuo

Who are you referring to as 'you guys?'
GT reviews full versions.

Sorry. With 'you' i meant 'us', i mean, the voters.

[chewiban]

I think, the voting system is not very good - I want to give my voice for 3 or 4 games, but not only for one game.

And wanna se these titles in list:

Pathstorm
Gesundheit!
Sam & Max: Reality 2.0
Switchball
CoasterRider
Mystery Case Files: Madame Fate
An Untitled Story

Lets begin new voting plz...

[Twitchfactor]

I really enjoyed the following games...

Darkside: Arklight 2 - Rock solid fun, even before the revision in controls. Really polished.

Hap Hazard - I've got a soft spot for Jumpman and this is just Jumpman with a new coat of paint, and I'm okay with that.

Jets'n'Guns Gold - Uber-polished, I just wish it wasn't so hard!

Knytt Stories - Love the teeny-tiny little guy and art. Just wish I had the millions of hours needed to get anywhere in it.

Scavenger - Loved Thrust & Gravitron and this is no exception. Again, great presentation, spot-on controls and a pretty good difficulty curve add up to a solid action/shooter.

[Jack Norton]

For the genre awards, if you want consider also USM2 - it was released in december 23, 2006 so last year didn't make in time for your awards, but since there aren't a lot of new sports games in this year (I remember only tennis elbow manager) maybe you could also consider it.

Ok I stop my shameless plug now

[amaranth]

Oh man, I just started playing Aquaria. It's so beautiful... Darn it!!! *pounds head on wall*

[cyrus_zuo]

Originally Posted by Jack Norton

For the genre awards, if you want consider also USM2 - it was released in december 23, 2006 so last year didn't make in time for your awards, but since there aren't a lot of new sports games in this year (I remember only tennis elbow manager) maybe you could also consider it.

Ok I stop my shameless plug now

Did you submit the game to GT during the year? I really was surprised to see USM2 as I had no memory of the game's release (though notably I'm unable to follow most December releases). Sorry I didn't know about it earlier.