Making Simple Games with Flash vs C++(with DirectX)?

[zerodevice]

Hi.

I'm new to this forum, and i've read a most of the topics in IndieBasic and IndieAdvance.

Right now I'm trying to make a simple "Pacman" clone and sell it.
But before I start, I was wondering.

Should I use FlashMx to create an EXE only application?
Or C++ with DirectX?

The reason I ask because I know flash can make a quick game in short time, but C++ would probably be more proffesional or flexible.

Thanks in advance to all.

[GBGames]

Should I use FlashMx to create an EXE only application?
Or C++ with DirectX?

The reason I ask because I know flash can make a quick game in short time, but C++ would probably be more proffesional or flexible.

C++ isn't "more professional" than Flash. It's just been around longer as a general purpose programming language.

However, your choice of language should be based on what it can do for you. If Flash lets you make a game quicker, then you may want to go with it. Quickly getting a project from beginning to end is amazingly important. Otherwise, you can flounder for a year without much to show for it because you were tackling all sorts of coding issues that were only tangentially related to the game you were trying to make.

C++ is a bit more open and standardized, though, which means that if you decide not to use DirectX (say a port to the Mac or GNU/Linux), you'll have an easier time of it. Flash is pretty much owned by Adobe, which means that they exert a lot of control over who gets what. Adobe is doing a better job of porting it to non-Windows platforms, though, so maybe this point is/will be moot.

Good luck!

[zerodevice]

hmm..
Thanks for the advice.

I might go for C++ and DirectX in this case.
Since it's been there long enough, I guess it's more easier for me to get help when I'm stuck.
Plus, i'm planning to make that a Win32 only game.

[esrix]

If it's a simple clone of pacman, you might want to try using C++ along with either SDL or Allegro. These libraries simplify a lot of things when it comes to making 2D games, yet they are still low level enough for you to do more advanced things. They have plain C interfaces and they are both open source and run on multiple platforms, including Windows.

Also, you can still use them along side DirectX as well. This article on GameDev shows how to use SDL with DirectX.

[zerodevice]

oh? Thanks!!!

That's great.
I think I'll start something over the weekends.

[Tom Gilleland]

If you use Flash you can make the game for PC and Mac concurrently. But the HUGE advantage is that you can also play it via the Web.

Tom

[LilGames]

Cons of using Flash:
- No screen Vsync (means moving objects sometimes show "tearing")
- Low graphics drawing performance. Action games like PacMan need a consistent 60 frames per second. Flash has a hard time achieving that frame rate on low-end computers. With C++, even a Pentium 1 at 66mhz could do PacMan full screen at 60 fps
- No direct screen resolution control. You need to use a third-party "wrapper" for that, and then you get another performance hit from the wrapper.

PS: I don't think a PacMan clone will sell. But selling shouldn't be your goal if you're just learning to make games. Learn to crawl before trying to fly.

[mokkbs]

"The reason I ask because I know flash can make a quick game in short time, but C++ would probably be more proffesional or flexible."

Don't let religious beliefs interrupt your ability to bring your product to market. A lot of people have trouble with this.

The "professional" aspect of C++ does not exist except in your mind. All implementation methods have their uses.

If you can Flash and get it to market faster, then Flash if that is your goal.

If you see a real reason why you need it in C++, then C++.

In the end the user does not care what you wrote it in for the most part. He wants it to work, and be fun.

[soniCron]

- No direct screen resolution control. You need to use a third-party "wrapper" for that, and then you get another performance hit from the wrapper.

That's not always true. I'll be releasing a Flash wrapper soon that doesn't impact performance.

[zerodevice]

PS: I don't think a PacMan clone will sell. But selling shouldn't be your goal if you're just learning to make games. Learn to crawl before trying to fly.

Well, it's not going to be an actual Pacman Clone, the game play will have some slight changes.

Oh, as for the learn adn crawl thingie?
Yeah you've got a good point there, but isn't the final goal is to see some result from your game by selling them?
I'm not saying to be 100% obsessed with $$$ but saying that in the end, reality kicks in and we all want to see our game sold.
Anyway, I've got your point. Thanks.

[zerodevice]

Anyway, I've been wondering.
Is there any free C++ compiler on the net?
i dont want some funny compiler that can only do little stuff, since I'm looking forward to use it for dev game.

[esrix]

Do you mean compiler, or do you want a full IDE with an integrated compiler?

There's always Mingw and GCC for compilers. For IDEs, CodeBlocks is good. You can also download the Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition, which is free and comes with the Microsoft compiler.

[zerodevice]

well, compiler or IDE, either one.

Anyway, you were saying Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition is free?
Hmm.... i thought they were expensive.

So, I kinda fount out that there's DEV C++, which is also not bad.

[ktorrek]

Anyway, you were saying Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition is free?
Hmm.... i thought they were expensive.

Visual Studio 2005 Express C++ is totally free (I was surprised too). You can get it here. There are also VB, C#, and J# versions available.

The good:
- the price is right
- it's a familiar and reasonably well supported tool
- finding help is usually pretty easy because so many people use it

The bad:
- no plugin support
- no built in source control

We use the full version at work (the commercial versions are quite expensive) and we've had no end of trouble with it. I've used Express at home for a while but the deal breakers are no plugins (can't live without VisualAssist) and no source control integration. Having to go futz around with source control GUIs interrupts my workflow way too much.

If you do download and use it, make sure you follow the instructions and install the platform SDK. Also, I had trouble getting the DX9 example solutions to link; it didn't look like they were set up properly with the SDK download.

[zerodevice]

The bad:
- no plugin support
- no built in source control


If you do download and use it, make sure you follow the instructions and install the platform SDK. Also, I had trouble getting the DX9 example solutions to link; it didn't look like they were set up properly with the SDK download.

Well, that's pretty good for me.
I'm about to use SDL instead of DirectX(I thought i was free, but its only free to use, not for commercial).
Then I don't use plugins or source control (since I'm just a single user).

Thanks for the tip. Glad to hear about this.

[Exylex]

Well, that's pretty good for me.
I'm about to use SDL instead of DirectX(I thought i was free, but its only free to use, not for commercial).
Then I don't use plugins or source control (since I'm just a single user).

Thanks for the tip. Glad to hear about this.

you should try Hge ->http://hge.relishgames.com/

[wazoo]

Well, that's pretty good for me.
I'm about to use SDL instead of DirectX(I thought i was free, but its only free to use, not for commercial).

That's ambigious and I'm raising a yellow card. :)

Which are you referring to about your comment that it's only "free to use, not for commercial use"?

SDL - Tons of games commercial and otherwise are out there, totally legit

DirectX - Legit

Visual Studio Express - Legit

About the only thing that's free to use, but not for commercial use (just yet) Microsoft-wise is using XNA and being a member of the XNA Creators Club. It's been discussed in good detail so far in these forums, so search the topic for more info.

hth,

[zerodevice]

argh!!!! there's no end to these nice gfx engine.

[zerodevice]

Which are you referring to about your comment that it's only "free to use, not for commercial use"?

SDL - Tons of games commercial and otherwise are out there, totally legit

DirectX - Legit

Visual Studio Express - Legit

well, i'm not too sure about it, but i was told that SDL can be used for free & distribute your game along with it.
Then DirectX doesn't.
As for VSE, well i'm not sure about the distribution of an outcome made by using VSE, but using VSE is free. (that's wat "ktorrek" told me)

[willevolve]

Use flash,

Keep it simple, and market it well.

When you have more time, learn C or use engines like XNA,TorqueX and GM7.

It would be easier to have a web version and then a content rich version to download and pay for. <If it was done in flash>

Best Regards,

Will.

[KNau]

See, your getting stuck in the same trap that all starting developers get into, especially it seems when steered towards a C++ environment. You're lost in engine limbo - of course you can't just use it off the shelf, you need and engine and libraries and a compiler to get started. And you bought that it was the better way to go because of the inherent snobbery of C++ development.

If you want to get all beardy about it then by all means stick to C++. See you in 2 years when your pacman game is nearing it's beta release.

Not to be harsh but you posted this question 3 days ago - for a pacman game you should have a working prototype by now. Make a decision fast, there is no "right" answer.

[ktorrek]

As for VSE, well i'm not sure about the distribution of an outcome made by using VSE, but using VSE is free. (that's wat "ktorrek" told me)

4. Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?
Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using the Express Editions.

From here. But don't take my word for it. It's a good habit to double check any facts you find on message boards that you might rely on later.

I'm also going to reiterate what others have said here: if you just want to make games, don't go the engine route. At the end of the day, though, you have to decide what's best for your project, not us.

[zerodevice]

From here. But don't take my word for it. It's a good habit to double check any facts you find on message boards that you might rely on later.

I'm also going to reiterate what others have said here: if you just want to make games, don't go the engine route. At the end of the day, though, you have to decide what's best for your project, not us.

Thanks man.
I'm going for the VSE then. (I feel more safer now.)

[zerodevice]

See, your getting stuck in the same trap that all starting developers get into, especially it seems when steered towards a C++ environment. You're lost in engine limbo - of course you can't just use it off the shelf, you need and engine and libraries and a compiler to get started. And you bought that it was the better way to go because of the inherent snobbery of C++ development.

If you want to get all beardy about it then by all means stick to C++. See you in 2 years when your pacman game is nearing it's beta release.

Not to be harsh but you posted this question 3 days ago - for a pacman game you should have a working prototype by now. Make a decision fast, there is no "right" answer.

well, yeah I get the picture of what you're trying to tell me.
if its about using flash, then have a look at my page here.
Go click the "Game" tab.
It's not as good as those pro, but that's somewhat pacman like flash game I made last year.

Ok, right now these are the info I've got on FREE/ Not FREE.
1. Visual Studio Express
2. SDL
3. HGE
4. DirectX
5. Flash

Anyway, I've decided to go for VC++, and HGE.
So, I guess this topic ends here?

Well, I would like to have more options from everyone as I go along coding my game. Not that I'll stop in the middle and change to a different solution, but I'll keep those new solutions in mind and consider them for the next new game.

[Archmage]

Hi.

I'm new to this forum, and i've read a most of the topics in IndieBasic and IndieAdvance.

Right now I'm trying to make a simple "Pacman" clone and sell it.
But before I start, I was wondering.

Should I use FlashMx to create an EXE only application?
Or C++ with DirectX?

The reason I ask because I know flash can make a quick game in short time, but C++ would probably be more proffesional or flexible.

Thanks in advance to all.

Ok, first of all, there's a little principle you should be aware of. Although it's important to you, nobody else knows or cares how your game was made. So basicly, as long as you can maintain a decent framerate, and make the game play like it should, you can use any platform or techniques you want. So you might as well pick the one that's easiest for you.

Know that I've been developing in Flash since Flash 5 was released, so I'm probably a little biased by now...

In this situation, I would say go with Flash. It's easy to develop for. It offers incredibly quick turn around for prototyping. It already has many game-related concepts built in (time, an event based architecture, collision detection, etc). And for a 2D pacman-like game, it is more than efficient enough to run at a high FPS on any machine built in the last 5 years. Most of those slow crappy Flash animations you see on the web are a result of bad development. The Flash Player 9 drawing engine is very vast. Also, a Flash based game is platform independant. It can be run on any machine with the flash player installed (which is about 98% of PCs) without recompiling, and even if they didn't already have flash player, including it with your game is legal and only adds a couple MBs to the size.

[zerodevice]

Well, I only get to use a licensed flash from my friend's company.
So it'll be a bit troublesome for me to kept on going to his office nad borrow his PC.
All I want to know is how good can flash be and isit worth enough for me to get a licensed flash to make a game.

anyway, so far c++ is free. so... i guess i'll skip flash on serious games.
( however i do like to use flash for web development. )

--------------------------------------

Ok, now i've got a question.

Has anyone tested Visual Studio c++ 2005 Express Edition with HGE?
coz when I'm trying to run the HGE simple code, it says that the "windows.h" is missing.

I thought it'd might be some setup error, so I use the same setup i learned from thier website and try running at my friend's company computer with VS.net 2005 (not express edition), and it worked.

Anyone has any leads?

[W.P.]

Has anyone tested Visual Studio c++ 2005 Express Edition with HGE?
coz when I'm trying to run the HGE simple code, it says that the "windows.h" is missing.

Take a look at the steps in this post http://developer.popcap.com/viewtopi...er=asc&start=0

and skip step 4

This should get you up and running

cheers

[zerodevice]

Take a look at the steps in this post http://developer.popcap.com/viewtopi...er=asc&start=0

and skip step 4

This should get you up and running

cheers

*old message*
hmm.... you know what?
I have not tried it, since it did not say much about HGE, but there's a point that catches me.
The almighty DIRECTX.
If i'm not mistaken, i think it's the DirectX that was missing from my PC.
going to give it a try later.

*new message*
Ok, my bad. It wasn't DirectX.
It was the "Platform SDK" which was not included for Visual Studio Express Edition.

So, All I need now is to install the "Platform SDK" from here.