How do coders become designers?

[SeppSchrot]

Hi anybody,

well,once again, a game I participated in as coder was cancelled.
Again, it was somebody-else's project that stalled. :(
But this time I dare to say it was the last.
I give up teamworking for now and image starting my very own project.
Hope this won't sound selfish but I don't want to rely on somebody else anymore in this respect.
If the ship sinks next time - fine - but at least it will have been mine ;)

Of course, from the very first day I played games I had ideas for own
titles. Many of them stupid or impossible to implement of course, but not all.

My question:
I expect many of you started with some knowledge in the programming site of development.
How did you 'learn' to design?
I mean, figure you were used to implement other's design and had rarely difficulties in doing so.

But all other aspect of development are quite new to me.
Am I spoiled already? :(

When someone asks you how to learn coding you advise him some books, tutorials and to practice.
What is the advice for someone who likes to start designing?
I've already read a lot of interviews on gamasutra and the like but it's still not
very clear for me...

I think cloning a game couldn't be called designing, could it?

thx,
Sepp

[svero]

Well if the trial and error of designing new game ideas doesn't come naturally to you then Id suggest searching amazon for game design books and reading a few as a way to start.

[Christian]

Hi, im guessing you mean GAME design right? to design well you need experience and you also need to study (first study of course), check my signature to my blog, there are many good links to game design related stuff where you can learn game design, good luck, i hope you like this craft (game design).

[Coyote]

Trial and error, mainly.

I think most artists begin by imitating their sources of inspiration. But they gradually evolve from that and gain their own 'style.' Unfortunately, game design & development takes such a long time that it's hard to get enough games under your belt so that you really know your chops as a designer. I think it's best to work on a number of small projects first to get to that point.

There are a lot of books and articles on the subject of game design out there. It's worth reading through them, though most of the books I've seen haven't been very useful. Noah Falstein's "400 project" and his resulting Game Developer magazine articles are probably the most useful sources of game design advice that I've seen, but that is more of a codification of "rules of thumb" rather than training to be a designer.

[PoV]

Trial and error, mainly.

I want to emphasize error. You need to make or understand enough about bad games to make a good game.

[mahlzeit]

Just like you learn anything: by doing it.

[KNau]

Having an open mind, patience and a good testing partner (non computer savvy) from your target demographic is the way to go.

If you are targetting casual games get your wife / girlfriend to test things for you. Don't give them any instruction and just watch what they do from the moment of installing your game to when they quit in frustration.

It's tempting to think some control schemes and interface mechanisms are "obvious" until you watch a player fumble around your in-game tutorial. So be patient and if they get confused don't correct them. Write it down because it's now your problem to fix.

Also, posting a work in progress on these boards or pre-releasing on your website are both good methods for feedback.

[Savant]

How do coders become designers?

Arrogance? :)

[Christian]

Im intrigued, does this mean you all belive that trial and error is better than study game design?.

[PoV]

What good is a concept if it plays like crap, and isn't really feasable to be made in the first place? Game design study can teach you how to structure your ideas, but in the end, it all comes back to experience. It's tough to get experience from reading a book.

[GBGames]

Im intrigued, does this mean you all belive that trial and error is better than study game design?.

I'd rather put it as learning by doing rather than learning by memorization.

Obviously people shouldn't need to reinvent the wheel, or in this case reinvent the research that leads to a wheel. Has someone else already written down good game design principles or concepts? Learn from him/her!

On the other hand, reading about a topic might give you some idea about it, but actually doing the work will give you real experience. It usually takes the form of trial and error.

I don't think people are suggesting that you don't have to study game design. To make an analogy, I was teaching myself C++ a couple of years ago. I read books on beginning C++ programming, the object-oriented thought process, and other related topics. It wasn't until I actually started DOING the coding that I could really understand what the books were talking about.

I would suggest that a newbie designer should read some articles and/or books on the topic, then start applying them to real games.

[Coyote]

Im intrigued, does this mean you all belive that trial and error is better than study game design?.

Pretty much, though both are important.

Can I become a great painter by simply studying other people's paintings? Can I become a concert pianist by simply studying musical notation and watching other pianists perform? Can I become skilled as an actor by only watching lots of plays and movies?

You learn by doing. Studying will certainly HELP you, and speed up the process. But it's no substitute for rolling up your sleeves and doing it.

[Anthony Flack]

I suggest you start by making lots and lots of quick prototypes. Try making a game a day for two weeks, and see what comes out of it.

[Christian]

Of course practice is important, specially in this interactive medium where the only way to know for sure that something works is to test/play it, BUT... as coyote said, can i learn to compose great music by just grabbing an insturment and playing it? maybe, but ill be able to create a moderatelly good tune in 20 years, can i learn to drive a car by just jumping on it and pressing the pedals? yes i can, but without instructions ill surelly kill someone or maybe ill crash the car with a tree. Did you learn programming without learning the basics first or did you start writing code right away without prior instructions?. With games its the same, you have to know to theory to understand how and what to do, later you put this knowledge to practice to advance in your "career" by personal experience.

But anyway, i think that one must first study game design to know what is important on games, to know about people and to make the game before programming it so you dont waste time making bad games.

[Anthony Flack]

Um, well I learned to program without any instruction from anyone. People will probably say it shows in my awful technique, but I can still do it. I also think that's the best way to learn an instrument, too - if you want to use it creatively that is.

I've never read a game design book in my life, and I still don't feel any need to do so. My understanding advances through direct experience of real-world stuff, rather than pre-digested theories. But maybe it will work for you. I recommend getting stuck in and be prepared to make mistakes. I really don't think there's a shortcut to learning something like being a great game designer; I think it's one of those mastercrafts that requires years of dedicated effort.

If you want to write a great tune, it may very well take you twenty years. That's not wasted time. I think it's important. If you want to make really good games, you will make bad games first. So my advice is to start making them quickly.

[SeppSchrot]

Hello and thanks for your replies.

I think I will do some rapid prototyping for the next time with some
3rd party engines, as Anthony advises.

Christian's links are very interesting as well. They give some good cornerstones.

It seems I made the mistake and admixed 'design' with 'polishing' a bit.
Polishing is nothing I should care for now, but it is very impressive how perfect
everything seems to fit together in most indie games.

[Coyote]

BUT... as coyote said, can i learn to compose great music by just grabbing an insturment and playing it? maybe, but ill be able to create a moderatelly good tune in 20 years

Well, Jimi Hendrix is considered one of the most influential rock guitarists of all time, and he was almost entirely self-taught. And he died at the age of 27.

And the old-school designers who pioneered the videogame medium had nothing to study except other games (not all videogames).

Did you learn programming without learning the basics first or did you start writing code right away without prior instructions?

Pretty much started coding right away with minimal instruction. I learned by example and by doing. I've certainly supplemented my knowledge by instruction from time to time - you are foolish if you avoid "book learning." But I learned more from 2 hours of actually sitting down and writing code, playing with it, and learning from trial-and-error than I would have learned with 2 weeks of reading about it.

But anyway, i think that one must first study game design to know what is important on games, to know about people and to make the game before programming it so you dont waste time making bad games.

I respectfully disagree on this one.

MAKE BAD GAMES! Get 'em out of your system quickly and early! Make quick prototypes, and get feedback from people about it. Do Game-In-A-Day concepts. Play around with gameplay rules. Maybe it's just because I'm much more of a hands-on learner, but I feel that studying gameplay principles without already having some basic foundation of game development is like planting seeds in a desert.

I think you learn more by making those kinds of mistakes than you'd learn in any course or in any book on the subject. Because then you not only learn what not to do, but you fully grok WHY you shouldn't do it, and WHY it doesn't work. You may learn a greater principle and learn how to recognize that error in other games (very tough to learn to recognize it otherwise). And - even more interestingly - you may gain some ideas about how to actually make it work instead of just trying to avoid it.

The one type of studying I would most heartily recommend is studying other games. Not just the good ones, but the bad ones as well. Learn what makes them bad.

[soniCron]

The overwhelming response seems to be against studying game design. I agree that you must get your hands dirty, but to suggest that studying game design isn't nearly as valuable... I just don't understand that. I will point out, however, that everyone dismissing the study of game design also makes traditional core games, so their suggestions are skewed toward the fan-like approach of mimicking previous titles usually in their favorite genre.

[Coyote]

I don't know if the response is "against" game design so much a statement that you can't really learn game design from a book, or even a course. You can learn "about" game design that way, and certainly pick up a lot of "tips" and rules of thumb that you can use as a crutch while you are still learning (I know I am!), but you can't learn it. Does that make sense?

I think game design is one of those things that's extremely easy on the surface, but extremely deep and complex and impossible to master. It's like writing fiction. Pretty much any literate person can put pen to paper (or fingers to the keyboard) and construct a work of fiction. But it takes some amount of natural talent and a LOT of practice (and feedback) to do it WELL. There are a ton of books out there on writing fiction, and they can certainly point out some pitfalls and act as signposts along your path. But almost every article and book I've read on the subject strongly state that the best teacher is experience.

[Shaz]

I don't think anyone can really give you the right answer FOR YOU here. Each person learns differently. Some people just pick things up and go with them - they learn by working through things themselves, they learn from their mistakes and mistakes of others. Some people learn by watching and listening to others - they also learn from their mistakes and mistakes of others. If you can teach yourself from a book then go for it, but if you need to be taught, then find someone who can help you. But once you've started, you can ALWAYS learn from others - see what works and why it works; what doesn't work and why it doesn't. You're never too old to learn, so no matter how long you've been coding or designing, seeing what others are doing / have done will always help you go further.

[Christian]

What i say is this, READ FIRST about game design, then practice a lot.

Nothing can be completelly taught from reading only, but reading is absorbing the knowledge and experience of others, and this is a GREAT plus for anyone.

And i agree what has been said about practice, for example, how did the creator of super mario learn to make games? he followed his heart only!... this is a great teaching :D