SELL! or sell?

[Elig]

Alright, it's a strange title I know, so allow me to explain. I've noticed that a lot of (What I consider to be) very successful shareware games (The Exile/Avernum series, Escape Velocity, etc.) use a very different method of selling their games than some unsuccessful shareware games (which I will not name ). In the successful games, you never seem to be nagged to buy the product, or if/when you are, it's very non obtrusive.

Take Escape Velocity, on the website, they dont announce that the game is a demo, or that it costs such and such to buy, they just have information, a download button, and a purcahse button. In game, occasionally you are nagged by an in game character which simply says "Dont forget to pay your shareware fee!". Infact, in game, there is no "Order now" button or registration information of any kind. Ontop of this, this game goes against what many people consider to be the best way to sell an independant game, the demo for escape velocity is exceptionally long. It's downright huge.

And then there's Avernum. On the avernum website, there is simply a download free demo button. To order a game, you have to access a completely different part of the website. Although Avernum contains an ingame "Order information" button, this button does not link to the website. It only provides a telephone number, mailing address, and the website address in text. Also, Avernum contains no nagging what so ever, the demo is unbelievably long, and when it finally ends, you're warning is an in game character who informs you that to play further, you must register.

And a more familiar independant game company that goes against the tradition would be Jagged Blade Software. They offer absolutely no order mechanism I can find on the main website, and do not mention on the website that the game is limited in any way. They simply offer a "Free download" and in game you may use the order button to purchase. Nexus says that he's currently making about $1000 a month, which since Xeno Assault 2 costs about $20, then they have about 50 or so sales per month. Ofcourse, Im assuming that the sales of both their games are combined, and that the $1000 a month figure is the total from games sold in a month.. and that's just a very rough estimate. And this figure may be only a random increase in sales, for whatever reason... Still, if it's anywhere near that, it's a lot better than the people who are selling only 5-15 a month.

This also brings up another interesting point, which has been brought up before, the use of order/purchase versus the use of BUY. Buy is ofcourse, a hard selling technique, versus purchase which is a soft sell, and I respect that, except for the fact that the games who use the term buy dont appear to be doing too well. Ofcourse, there are always exceptions, but it seems that a majority of the games who use the term buy versus the term purchase arent doing as well as their counterparts.

My real question is, what terminology do you use in your game/website to sell your product? What kind of nagging do you use, if any, and what kind of placement of purchasing buttons do you use on your website/game (Prominent, big, small, etc.)? And, what are your reasons for using the terminology/nagging etc. that you do? And, one more, just to put this in perspective... Do you make 40+ sales per month?

[electronicStar]

I think it all depends of the crowd you are targetting.
RPG players will play the avernum demo to its end, where they'll see a nagging screen and feel the great frustration of not being able to progress further. Considering the scarce offer in RPG videogames, they'll probably decide to buy it to support the author.
OTOH, Soccer moms and retired computer aficionados playing a Bejewelled demo, need to be reminded that a lot, because you know, their attention span is much more volatile. That explains why they play Bejewelled in the first place

[Tom Gilleland]

You really need to look at the techniques used on titles with high conversion rates. If Xeno Assault 2 gets 500 downloads a month, then at a 1% conversion he gets 50 sales. But maybe he is getting 5000 downloads a month and only a .1% conversion. Then his sell-thru techniques probably are not very good.

Also, how do you get sales numbers from this Nexus? Isn't this confidential information? I certainly would like to get more sales numbers on titles.

Tom

[Davaris]

I wouldn't get caught up by that "sales guy" nonsense. If a game is going to sell well, it will and if it doesn't sell well, there's nothing you can do about it.

What you've got to do first, is find out what types of games sell best (market research) and make a really good one like that. Then when you have a game that sells, you can focus on the difference between buy now buttons and purchase buttons.

[soniCron]

I wouldn't get caught up by that "sales guy" nonsense. If a game is going to sell well, it will and if it doesn't sell well, there's nothing you can do about it.

Bogus. Bogus. Bogus. This is the common pitfall that indies keep falling into, and frankly, I can't understand it. If this was true, then jewelry stores wouldn't waste their money hiring employees -- they'd just have fancy vending machines. If you developers insist on believing this silly fairy tale, then by all means, please continue to follow it. In the mean time, I'm going to take advantage of all the little things that you let slip by...and sweep your customers under my rug!

[Davaris]

More detail on what I said above:
All of the games that were mentioned above have great game play (Xeno Assault, Avernum, Escape Velocity). Making games with great game play is a skill or a talent and some people can never learn it.

Also I can't emphasise enough. Do your market research first and find out where the demand is. You won't be able to sell something that no one wants.

If you make an RPG make it fantasy or you will be punished with poor sales. Trust me I know.

If you make a shootem up or a strategy game, use a futuristic space theme. For some reason these types of games tend to sell well.

[cliffski]

not always true. would market research have suggested that the sims would be profitable?
or for that matter, Democracy?

[princec]

My take on market research:

#1. 1 crazy loon produces an original and/or amazing idea that just happens to strike a chord with the great unwashed. Game sells tons, consumers become familiar with the idea, market is created.

#2. "Market research" turns out to be "find an existing idea that did really well and copy it". Meaning, Cliffski did feck all market research and got lucky Whereas Funpause did market research and noted the success of companies such as Popcap and indeed BigFish.

The difference between #1 and #2 is that #1 almost always fails and relies on sheer luck but can pay off massively, and #2 almost always succeeds and relies on simple observation of the status quo but rarely pays off big as you already have competitors.

Cas

[Elig]

Obviously sales tactics work, other wise marketting wouldnt be as big of a job as it is. Products dont sell themselves. I mean, you can get a doctorate in selling things, ofcourse knowing how to sell is important. Why else are so many degrees in the feild of business and marketting. The difference between the word "Buy" and the word "Purchase" might be the difference between the customer looking at your product and never returning, and buying a copy. There's a LOT of information about sales tactics, and sales tactics do work. There's a long documented history of sales techniques and their successful useage. You can even study the history of marketting in schools now. Why is it that people know the name Toyota, or Pepsi? Why do you go to see movies based solely on a trailer that only lasted three minutes? Not because they offer anything that someone else couldnt offer. Because marketting and sales techniques work. Beyond that, someone who likes Escape velocity may think that Avernum is the worst game in history. Or the other way around. Liking/disliking is only half of the battle. A game doesnt have a set in stone status of "THIS is a good game" and "This is a bad game", it's an entirely personal like/dislike. If you have someone who likes your product, convincing them to buy it is the next logical step... But all of this is completely beside the point of this discussion.

The idea here is, what sales tactics do you use in your product, why do you use them, and do you feel they help?

(Oh, just to let everyone know, I got the $1000 figure from another thread on this forum :P And in terms of sales figures being confidential, that's an entirely personal decision as to whether to keep them cofidential or not)

[EJSainz]

I think we are having the eternal discussion about "new games" that "only may work" and "copy-paste games" that are working "worst but for sure". In my personal opinion, I decided to go "indie" because I was tired of making always the same game at my AAA company (other reasons helped, but this one is from the biggest).

Therefore, I'll be doing games as original and new as I can, but since I really want to make a living out of this, I've decided to be quite conservative at least at the beggining. Therefore, I'm finishing my "quite original" game now, and before opening business I'll be preparing one or two "casual" titles (provided Social Security will let me).

Then, about the main question, I think electronicStar hit the bullseye on that depending on the kind of players that would buy your games you should use a different nagging system. And, if necessary, change it for a week to see which system works better. Or even distribute different exe's so you can track which nagging system worked better.

[Davaris]

not always true. would market research have suggested that the sims would be profitable?
or for that matter, Democracy?

I think it would have worked if you asked the right people. While I haven't played your game, I suspect it would appeal to the age group/mind set that likes card games and mind sweeper. Then again it would be better to ask masses of people rather than me.

You can be original and do market research as well. I have a new idea for a game, but I'm going to ask the people visiting my site if they are interested first. If I get a poor response, I'll try other ideas.

Obviously sales tactics work, other wise marketting wouldnt be as big of a job as it is. Products dont sell themselves.

Marketing and sales is different. Marketing is doing the research to see if there is a demand for the product. Sales is the actual selling of the product. Smart sales guys know which products are the easiest to sell because there is a demand for them.

[DFG]

The first post does not make an apples to apples comparison - you are comparing 2 different types of content (different games) and then trying to compare the selling techniques as the differentiating factor which could easily lead to false conclusions and assumptions.

You would have to take the same game (say Avernum) and test different marketing techniques with relatively the same sources of traffic and then compare.

[turbo]

sell



.. it just goes better with the whole idea of being independent, whether it be games or anything else ..


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