Would you sell a game that isn't good?
I wrote a small game in java for a course which I'm about to finish. Now the holidays are approaching and I want to start making games for fun & profit.
The game isn't particularly good (i.e. I think my 'real' game will be better). However, since I already have it, I might as well try selling it. Right?
I had some alternative ideas for this unique IP - I could use it as a Puppygames-esque web game or free download to help build interest until I release a 'real' game.
What would you do?
Could we take a look at the game? "Bad game" is relative :p
But assuming it is definitely bad, I wouldn't sell it, especially if you plan to sell it under the brand name you plan to use for your "real" games. If enough people play it, it will just give you a bad reputation.
Depending on how bad it is, you might be able to use it as a learning experience to get a good hold of all the ins and outs of setting up your online transaction processing, your website etc...
Steve Verreault - Twilight Games
http://www.twilightgames.com --- http://www.indiegamer.com
"Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to.” - Oscar Wilde
If it was my first game, yes.
On your first game, it's more important to do it than to do it well.
Putting it out there gets you experience in setting up your online transaction accounts and such.
Plus, you've already done it. Why waste that effort? If even one person buys it, it's better than NOT selling it.
I echo Raptisoft's message. We did exactly that with Snowball Frenzy. It helped us get the web site going, transactions and to have an idea on what it takes to add a game to a website ready for sale.
If I would relase games that I thought were no good... I would have about ten on my site by now ;) seriously. I suppose I have to stop scrapping them once I consider them "not perfect" and just get feedback instead.
My main project will be released and I feel it is good, of course.. but I know there is a lot to adjust to and get feedback from once you have all the systems of selling a game in place and that imo should be learned as soon as possible.
On the other hand I plan on making FREE games as well but not because they are no good, but as a promotional device / goodwill gesture (obviously I am talking very small games here that would not eat into main development time). So you could try selling it or giving it away, but imo, if you think it is that bad - if it feels like a "test project" to you then I wouldn't release it. Not from a business standpoint but a personal one. I am a bit of a perfectionist and I couldn't sleep at night knowing I had received money for something I wasn't proud of. This of course, does not include the games I released on the Amiga which were passable but shameful by todays standards ;)
Just release it! You have the chance to learn valueable lessons and you might get some money for it.
There is no way it will seriously hurt your reputation as if it's that bad it won't get infornt of many people anyway...
The main problem with releasing a game that you're not happy with is that it can become a real drag on your mental energy. I decided to release Vault Vex for all the reasons mentioned in this thread: no sense throwing away the fruits of your efforts, it will be a learning experience, etc. However, after I submitted my not-so-perfect game to the 237th download site, and my first three sales were fraudulent, and my admittedly low sales expectations were (almost) met, and what little feedback I received from my potential customers simply confirmed that my game wasn't so good, I found myself wishing that perhaps I'd chosen to cut my teeth on a game that I loved a little bit more. Even if you're just going to "throw it out there," that still takes time and effort and if that time and effort is spent on something you don't love, you'll resent it. In retrospect, I would still have released Vault Vex, but I shouldn't have put so much time into it.
Paul Kerchen
Thanks, everyone. The main message I'm getting is that this is a mental issue, not a marketing one: If selling the game will make me feel bad, I shouldn't do it, but if it will motivate me to set up a store and get some experience, I should.
I might run the game by you after I've cleaned it up a bit. I'll also take a look at some of your infamous first games to get an idea for the standard :)
I may give it out for free, but I'll NEVER sell it.
You should check out
It could still be a successful game if you plan to take the professional approach from the following link. If you plan on updating the game over several iterations then it could actually end up being much better than you expect.
http://www.dexterity.com/articles/sh...fessionals.htm
Greig
I'll do it
Hi everyone,
It's my first post here, though I've been reading you a lot for a while and find this site very very useful.
I'm looking to release my first game too, and it is only a small card game (mix of chess and card game war). I was wondering the same as if i should release it or not as it looks more like a proof of concept than a complete game.
I definitely will as i need to understand the whole process of selling a game by myself and as I would hate to have wasted my time even if it was a good experience to get me back in track for game programming (I've been out of the scene for quite a long time now).
Once it is done, I promiss I'll post again and tell how many (if any) sells I got :)
Thierry
Originally Posted by Talisman
I have a question. Have any of you guys ever sold your games without a vendors license (do you need one?) or even a REAL corporation or DBA? Anyone ever just make up a name and throw it on a website and call it "blah blah soft" and skip the Fed-ID and DBA or INC / LLC part? I was thinking about that but I think that is risky, or is it not? 'Cuz I think the hardest part of sellin games right now is that you hafta start a business. You have to get legal stuff done, and CPA, etc.
How on earth do you think you can sell a game that isn't good?
Exactly what I was getting at in my posts. I think we have got a MASSIVE struggle ahead of us to promote and sell a game we believe in - how is spending all the time and energy on doing that to a game you think is "rubbish" going to help you?
Obviously it may not be completely "Not good" and you were just saying that, so you have to be the judge. If it has merits and you won't look back in a year and cringe at it then I agree it would be useful to "test" the commerce side (which is a very valuable lesson) but if you totally lack faith in it ... how can you expect people to buy it? And if you don't expect people to buy it is it not just going to be a bandwidth stealer??
I wrote a complete steamer last year and tried to sell it. Two copies. But, as others have said, I learned about press releases, setting up the web site, order processing, etc. So, as far as developing/selling/marketing a game from soup to nuts, been there done that.
Now, to make a game that people actually *want* to buy...
I say polish it a bit and sell it. And keep polishing it according to people's suggestions. Maybe a sugestion box would be useful.
Hey, it happens all the time with big companies. Especially those games that are based on movies and cartoons. They are very well advertised though.How on earth do you think you can sell a game that isn't good?
I try to do my best to avoid making a game that isn't good - so that I never have to face this question. But to answer the question, I wouldn't sell a game that I didn't think was worth the money I was charging for it.
I take to much pride in my work to sell a product that I feel isn't good. Often after gameplay niggles, its polish that causes the most strain on working relationships in indie teams.
If your having doubts and need to ask, you probably don't want to sell your game. You have to remember that ultimately, people will judge you by the games you publish. So they better be things you can live with, bad products reflect on you and may get in the way later since a lot of people arent willing to give second chances, and first impressions tend to stick.
Yeah, again my thoughts. Whether this is substantiated in fact is another matter. We realise there is little "brand loyalty" in shareware (if any) but personal pride is a valuable thing. Maybe sometimes to the detriment of monetry income but I like to take whatever small sleep I get at nights with a clear conscience ;)
The problem with this thread is it is quite hypothetical because we all have different standards of what constitutes "a bad game" and we could maybe do with some screenshots and a gameplay overview of the game in question to really give accurate comments.
It is true about first impressions for some though. There are certain companies who I find it hard to believe will ever make a game that will appeal to me based on their output to date. I am not a typical casual/indie games player though. Obviously a lot of players go through portals and may love your super new zuma style game and not even know or care that you also made "super paperclip simulator" in your early days or whatever. For a more direct sales-centric company I say impression counts and even though you may have some flops you should at least be proud of them, and give the customers the impression you have tried your hardest to please them.
As usual two seperate issues crop up again - the "e-commerce/distribution" practice thing which is a GOOD thing, and the possible harm to company image which is of course a bad thing.
go for it! But I wouldnt go for the standard $19.99 price tag, if you dont think the game is very good, then $1.99 is a perfect price that way if your market doesnt like the game they can say "well at least it was only 2 bux!"
If the game was sold for anything more than $9 this may turn future business away, and I would assume you are making games for profit, future profit is the most at stake and I do not think you would want to jeopardize that!
But demo version should be around 20-30 min as the game is a cheaper price!
Certainly not. If it is an average (not that baaaad), then maybe in the 6.99, 7.99 category... but not really.
My gallery: www.gamesmithy.com
Contact: pszgabor@gamesmithy.com
Current project: Jungle - Centurios board game
No, never!
Zenix3D, because sometimes you just wanna blow stuff up!
Until you get feedback from players, how do you know whether it's good or not?
If you anticipate feelings of shame and remorse for selling something you think is crap, take a more gradual approach. Open up the game for free public testing and pay attention to the feedback you get. That way you'll find out if you're worried about the right things, or just being a Nervous Nelly. After that, you'll know more about whether you have something you can sell (and maybe have an idea for how much to charge), or whether you should move on to the next project.
Self doubt is inevitable. Use it to your advantage to make the game even better.
-David
Naturally it is only my opinion, but without good "knowledge" of gaming (knowing the history, many-many succesful and failed titles, having a good taste etc) I think it is suiciede to develope games.
The developer HAS TO grade (close estimate) his/her product. You have to know the industry (indie-industry, AAA-industry, freeware-industry) standards to be able to develope the best of you.
My gallery: www.gamesmithy.com
Contact: pszgabor@gamesmithy.com
Current project: Jungle - Centurios board game
Personally, I want to avoid releasing a bad game. I believe image is important if you want to be successful. I think quality is important, and I want to release good, quality games from the start. I believe that releasing poor games gives your company a bad image.
If all goes well, my first release should be a very enjoyable game to many people, with no bugs. Patches & updates are another thing I intend to avoid.
Starting off by releasing poor games may work for some people, but I see it as a risk. Are there any successful people out there who believe they started out with a poor game? I'm curious.
There are bound to be people out there who developed and sold poor games before they made great games.
What's the worst that can happen, if it's your first game and it bombs real bad and people hate it etc, then just restart with a new company name and website.
Afterall if you don't release the game you will be in the same state as the person above who does release a bad game and then starts a new company. But you will have learnt a whole lot about creating and releasing a game.
Greig
Weren't we gunna work something out? ;)
Well, my suggestion is to release only the best games you made... this is valuable in all fields. Consider music field, as example. If you want to be considered a very good composer and producer, you must never release a track that is not less than "awesome".
By the way, I got TONS of tracks and piano studies and arrangements, scores and performances made for experience and study but I'll never release them.
There is too much crap around, and if you are talented, better to show only your best things or you risk to be considered mediocre when you are not.
Electronic, Hard House, Film Music
88 preview tracks to listen to online + artist forums
And my projects Vanethian, and X-tivity Factor
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