With your game being in the top 10 of RealArcade, wouldn't it be more profitable to continue focus of this route?
I had an idea the other day, of us distributing our latest game along with a nation-wide circulation newspaper, as they already do with DVDs, audio CDs, etc.
Considering that Greece is a small country, I think it could be feasible.
Has anyone done something similar before?
What amount of money should I ask and how? (per CD? fixed price?)
How can we wrap the game in a DRM package so that the game will be easily unlocked with a code found on each CD cover? Should we even do that, or would a general unlock code suffice? (this has to be easy enough to unlock without phone or internet activation)
Any suggestions for proposing this to the newspapers? There are 3-4 of them in Greece which have a high circulation, so I'll send my proposal to all of them.
All your thoughts and ideas are welcome.
Well, I don't see how I could harm my online sales by an offline distribution. (especially in a country like Greece, where people aren't so eager buying online with their credit cards).
Besides, at the moment I'm only allowed to distribute the game through RealArcade and my company's website.
I didn't know people still type in listings these days.
Weren't video games banned in Greece some time ago?
(seriously, for those that missed it, this was all over the gaming news)
Just distrbute the demo. Then you don't need to be paid.Originally Posted by Total Eclipse
I remember that too. Looks like it was just over three years ago (see http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html). Did Greece finally come to their senses and repeal the law? If so, I never heard that they did.Originally Posted by PoV
@Greg - Read the two comments on the link you just sent. Apparently there is some discussion about whether the whole idea is bunk to begin with.
Please assume I am playing devils advocate whenever I say anything...
My worst fear is that someone will actually believe I have any experience and do what I say...
Hey guys! Thanks for your help! You've really answered my questions...
The stupid law in Greece happened a while back when there were many people making money illegally from slot machines, etc. so the Greek government, in a desperate move(?) and since the officials don't know much (if anything) about electronic games, banned them altogether. They soon realized (after people protested, I guess) that you can't ban games running on a PC, just beause you want to beat down gambling games, so they altered the law by making it more specific and targeted.
I repeat, it was a very stupid law but not any more stupid than some USA ones like "It is illegal for a person to sound the horn on a vehicle at any place where cold drinks or sandwiches are served after 9:00 P.M." or even worse "If you mispronounce Arkansas (Ar-kan-saw) you're in for a fine or jail time".
So now that we have decided that there are stupid laws, could you please treat this thread like I'm asking for information and I'm not necessarily from Greece, but any place in the world?
I have never heard of those laws... but hear is one to remember, up until the law was repealed recently it was legal to shoot a kill a Mormon in Missouri
But thatâ€™s beside the point, my question is how would you distribute your game and receive payment?
Would you distribute the game and make people go online or call for an activation code? Or would it be included with the magazine?
I think BlueWaldo made a very good point:Originally Posted by Total Eclipse
"Just distrbute the demo. Then you don't need to be paid."
In case you want to distribute the full version and being paid for it, we can't tell you what to ask for, since it depends on the popularity of the newspaper, its price, your expenses (I mean, if you're a small or big team), etc.
Manuel F. Lara
Descargar juegos indie - Blog about indie games (in Spanish)
Blog sobre productividad, motivación y espíritu emprendedor
Thank you for replying, Manuel and Steve. Maybe the following information will help you help me.
The paper I'm targetting has a circulation of 220,000 and is read by half a million people. Each Sunday they give away free DVDs, magazines, etc. so I would like to target a Sunday distribution, if possible. The cost of the newspaper is 2 Euros, I think.
I'm not interested in distributing a demo. As I said, the majority of Greeks are not people standing by with their credit cards to make the next purchase online as soon as possible. I want people to have the game for free, as a "gift" by the paper and I want the paper to pay us for allowing them to distribute 220,000 copies of the game along with their edition.
So, supposing you find this to be a good idea, how should we wrap the game for distribution? I read about SoftwarePassport on these forums. Will it do? Can it be unlocked with a serial number offline? And should I have more than one serial numbers?
Last edited by Total Eclipse; 09-19-2005 at 11:41 PM.
Before thinking about that, are you sure they want to put your game?
I tried to do this for several italian magazines and despite I made 2 soccer games (you know how italian loves soccer) they never accepted any of my games. So before thinking about a price, ask first if they are interested at all...
Well, I want to be ready for both a "yes" and a "no" answer. "Always be prepared!".
Maybe I am not that knowledgeable about this part of the business, but it sounds like an awful lot of work to be prepared for a potential "yes", doesn't it? It's one thing to be prepared, but it is another to wait until things are perfect before taking action.
Definitely wrap the game. Otherwise the version you are distributing on CD could be redistributed (pirated) online anywhere in the world for free. I think you should think this issue through, because by giving the game away in Greece you could be seriously undermining your future sales everywhere else in the world. I'm not actually that hugely paranoid about piracy, but this is potentially a gaping hole.
When you are able to distribute your game outside of Real, you are going to want a DRM solution that protects you, similar to the way the game is wrapped in Reals DRM. So research the DRMs that are discussed here all the time and pick one now so that you can use it for the newspaper and for future releases outside of Real down the road.
Anyway, I think you have a cool idea, but there are some risks.
In my experience isn't worth it... the times where magazines would pay 10-15k euros for a new game are gone (at least in Italy).
They also prefer old classic games than almost unknown indie ones (and can't blame them, when you see cool games like Gothic or Temple of Elemental evil on popular Cd magazines... we just can't compete with them).
If you would do that in Italy for example (don't know about Greece but in theory should be worse than Italy) I think you wouldn't be able to get more than 2.5-5k euros at most, and I really doubt you could make it even with a very good game.
If you just distribute the demo, it's going to cost you at least 20 cents for each CD, assuming you print thousands. You need a really good conversion from the demo, like 1%, to break even. And these aren't people who would choose to download your game, so that seems dubious. If the newspaper already had a CD or DVD that you put the demo onto, then maybe it is economical.
Denis. Please pardon me but...Originally Posted by dburger
The game can't be redistributed - it states copyright (probably on the first page). It could be pirated - but that's already done - any title with RealArcade wrapper is automatically pirated in the same day. They (pirates) distribute the cracker for all UPCOMING games if you wonder to know.
I was chatting today with author of topic. But I see it has good reasons to share my opinion here as well - only FULL version without any codes. There is no any reason to add the headache to fair peoples who gets the game as a gift from a newspaper. Good impression about the company could help better than strange idea with a wrapper. OK - wrapper - and what? To get 200000 additional free license codes running around the web?
Just my two cents of course...
My take on this issue... This game is your asset, it deserves some degree of protection against loss.only FULL version without any codes
It seems to me that by not putting any protection on the game at all you are leaving yourself wide open to problems down the road. I think that in the future when the game is distributed on other portals they may have issues with the fact that the game was given out previously, unprotected.
I totally agree that you need a simple solution that doesn't require thousands of reg codes. (Maybe just one code printed on the CD is enough protection.) You want people to enjoy the game, you just need to keep a handle on it.
I don't like to sound annoying but...
That portals give away the games for free by themselves. I don't like to place any links to cheat sites here - but everybody in business knows where to check quickly if their game already cracked or that requires another two days.
Thanks God the world is full of fair and nice peoples who is ready to pay for all our games after all give us a chance to survive.
REM: And what protection could give such the same License Code printed on CD?
You're damn right on all that assets, hardles down the road. The question is how to handle this and wouldn't such solution be just another problem for fair peoples only. Please check Raptisoft's topic on the update of his PC - to get in details what I'm meaning.
If these people all get the game for free I think they could all give away their copy. The copyright holder can only control the first sale. What if someone gets the smart idea to collect a bunch of CDs and sell them on eBay or a website for $4?
I'm not convinced that in this case the question is "Can they?" but rather, "Will they?" If so, how much damage will that cause? How many of them would have bought the game had they the opportunity?
... What if someone got the smart idea to resell any game they bought on ebay? Why, those secondhand sales could just drive software companies right out of business!If these people all get the game for free I think they could all give away their copy. The copyright holder can only control the first sale. What if someone gets the smart idea to collect a bunch of CDs and sell them on eBay or a website for $4?
You ALWAYS only control the first sale!
The whole point of an idea like this is to make an enormous amount of 'sales' up front. Some of those games will be passed around from hand to hand and go to more people than just the one who bought the paper. And some of them will toss the game right in the trash and never play it at all. It doesn't matter; you've already been paid!
The Mail on Sunday in this country often comes with a free movie or CD or something... You might see if you can find anyone who's been involved in one of those deals to give you some idea of the numbers they use. It doesn't look like anyone here has the experience...
Thank you all for contributing to the topic.
I guess I'll have to ask the marketing department of each newspaper to see what I can expect. It may work out or not.
Now, back to my technical question:
How can I protect the game in a DRM solution? Do you know if Software Passport works with Flash applications wrapped into an .EXE with Zinc v.2?
Zinc itself provides a basic protection system with expiration after X number of uses, on a certain date, after a certain amount of time, etc. and can accept a serial code to unlock the game.
Do you think it would suffice for the newspaper distribution?
Like Andy said, those who want to crack the game can do so anyway (besides the crack for it appeared in 0-day sites the moment the game was released on RealArcade).
It should work with any executable. I'd just download the SP demo and try it out.Originally Posted by Total Eclipse
We built both of our games with Flash and Zinc then wrapped them with Armadillo, and used RegNow (which works very well with Armadillo) for payment processing.
I have and I got a nasty error.
Maybe I didn't setup the certificates correctly, but it seemed too complicated for a new user. I was expecting an easy to use wizard.
From what I read, if I were to use it for distribution through Plimus as well, I'd have to use the Armadillo interface, which looks as usable as a 1970 mouse!
Yea, it took me a couple days to get armadillo set up. It was a bit painful, but it will work with some effort. I haven't been back and touched it in a couple years, so maybe i've forgotten the pains a bit
The main reason, I sugested it was that I know it worked with Zinc. We've had success with many drms and zinc. The Reflexive wraper worked, and we did a couple others as well. Some are easier than others to work with.