Portal unsecure security wrappers.

[Indiepath.T]

I have a situation with one portal where the wrapper security they use is pretty weak, I have notified them and they assure me that it is something that is on the list of priorities. I check other games that they distribute and I see that those games are also failed by the same wrapper. I would also like to point out that a crack for the wrapper was availble on known sites within 2 days of the release.

These people are costing me money, my own distributions and other portals are secure, my business is being compromised by these people.

I know what I am going to do. What ideas do you people have?

Thanks

Tim.

[luggage]

There's only really two options...

1) Don't work with the portal.
2) Work with the portal and put up with it.

I'd go for number 2 personally. Even though pirates might get their hands on your game you're still making money by the legit sales through that portal.

I don't look at piracy as costing me money personally. Unless you're having to eat up bandwidth costs for those pirated downloads then I'm not sure how much money people actually lose through it.

How many folk who pirate the game would otherwise buy it? Very very few I reckon.

Basically if the sales are anyway half decent then I'd stick with the portal. If you think the pirates are costing you money imagine what the portal must be thinking. If they thought they were losing that much cash you can bet there'd be a fix available very very quickly.

[Didier]

Or just don't work with serials...
Just let customers download the full version after their order.

Hosting and Bandwidth is expensive so not many warez sites are going to host each full version game.

It's very simple to distribute a serial in a small (1 Kb) txt file (or just place the serial on their site). -- it costs nothing.

Always used this method with success and never heard a customer complain that he/she has to download the same program again.

Didier

[JoKa]

Or just don't work with serials...
Just let customers download the full version after their order.

I also used this method up to now, but I hope to find a better solution with key distribution. Although it has advantages concerning illegal copies, I'm looking for the best way from my customers view. And in my opinion keys are the easiest method for the customer. No problems with unstable connections while downloading, some people also seem to have problems to follow a simple download link. Some people really expect to receive a key, I already got comments to change this.

I agree with luggage's point of view. Most people who buy a game are probably not the ones looking for cracks. I guess there's also a big difference if you're publishing casual games or full price mainstream stuff, since many casual gamers don't have high technical skills. And most of them aren't kids who are always low on money, looking for cheaper sources

[svero]

I wish realarcade would fix their system. Its trivial for even an amature with no technical skill to steal any game off their site in under a minute. It's got to be hurting the sales of anyone with a game up on their site. Why buy something from reflexive or popcap when you can get it off realarcade for free?

[Robert Cummings]

Are you sure? I couldn't do it.

[luggage]

must..... resist.....

[Savant]

Rob

I did the obvious search in Google and the first hit came up with a zip file containing a generic cracker for Real Arcade. It's not too hard to find.

[aaron]

Rob

I did the obvious search in Google and the first hit came up with a zip file containing a generic cracker for Real Arcade. It's not too hard to find.

Its even easier then that.... no crack is even needed for Real. When you run a demo game from Real, they

(edited out actual crack.. I left it out of my original post on purpose. But yeah its too easy. I'd rather indiegamer not be a source for people to find the info though. There's probably enough of those already :-) -- svero)

[PeterM]

Could you please delete/edit out that post? I think it's rather irresponsible to post this kind of information on the web.

Pete

[Nexic]

Cracking from Real Arcade is amazingly simple, no memory editing or registry editing, just simple file operations.... You would think one of the biggest portals going would make their system at least a more secure than this?

[luggage]

Could there be a case that they've looked into the piracy situation and decided it's just not worth making it more secure? It'll get cracked anyway and what they have is enough to stop the casual user from pirating it.

[Martoon]

Could there be a case that they've looked into the piracy situation and decided it's just not worth making it more secure? It'll get cracked anyway and what they have is enough to stop the casual user from pirating it.

Exactly. I'd venture to say that 99% of the RealArcade demographic don't even know what a hidden file is.

[Jack Norton]

You talk like if the women (that's the main target demographic) of Real don't have any children or men a *little* familiar with computers.
You think that if the smart 15 years old find a trick he won't tell his mother? or she will be undoubtely forced to buy the game original?

Everything that's based just on people's honesty is going to fail IMHO... it may be just a coincidence but since I've used Armadillo on The Goalkeeper I sell 50% more than before

[luggage]

Everything that's based just on people's honesty is going to fail IMHO

I wish I could fail like Real Arcade.

Real Arcade aren't stupid though - if they were losing money hand over fist then I'm sure they'd change it.

I wonder if they've checked conversion rates with other 'secure' portals? Would be quite straightforward to see the impact of piracy then surely?

[baegsi]

Could you please delete/edit out that post? I think it's rather irresponsible to post this kind of information on the web.
Pete

Posting that kind of information on as many places as possible is the best way to get that leak fixed IMHO.

[svero]

It may be that most people won't know how to crack real's system, but that's really besides the point. Theyve been using the same system for years now and it's really quite simple. How much actual effort would it be to make it a little more secure? I could be wrong, but I imagine it would help their bottom line a bit too.

[Jim Buck]

Would someone be willing to post the RealArcade method on the private forums? I missed the original post describing it and am curious myself how bad it really is.

[Robert Cummings]

If you're worried I suggest you do something about it and email the people at real and then ask them what they are doing about it instead of whining.

Posting here and there won't change their minds, but enough quality developers enquiring will.

[jankoM]

I allways thougth that some beast is hiding behind so called "DRM" when reading stuff about portals. If it is really so easy-crackable I would think that this is not a coincidence but maybe a tactics. But I don't know.

[Robert Cummings]

I would think that this is not a coincidence but maybe a tactics. But I don't know.

You mean losing money is a tactic?

[Indiepath.T]

I'd like to point out that my original post did not name any portals, and as it happens the portal in question was not Real... but hey thanks for the info.

[svero]

Posting that kind of information on as many places as possible is the best way to get that leak fixed IMHO.

Well that may be but you'll hurt a lot of people's sales in the meantime. Its an irresponsible way to approach it.

PS : I deleted all the petty squabbling 1 line posts. Please don't fill the board with junk. If people want soap operas they can watch afternoon tv.

[Nexic]

No one is expecting them to suddenly convert all their current games to a new system, it would just be good if for all future releases they could at least make it a tiny bit more secure. Wrapping games in Armadillo isn't hard, and can't be that much harder than using their current system...

I'm sure the piracy thing is okay for the moment, but their current user base is only going to get even more computer literate, and in time they will soon be able to crack the games themselves.

[Cuculain]

Isn't it really a perfect situation? We as struggling developers can get all games for free (that can be useful as reference etc), while the real target market buys the products as intended.

Of course, I might feel differently if I had a game on real.