Article about lack of female video game developers

[stanchat]

Interesting article about the lack of female video game developers.

[papillon]

... You mean the article where the woman "quoted" has already complained on slashdot about how they took things she said out of context, twisted them around, and pretended she was offended by GTA when she wasn't?


(I haven't bothered reading the article itself, because frankly there's an article every WEEK about how we need more women either playing or making games. And not a single one of them really cares at all about the women who actually ARE playing and making games, they just want to show how "sensitive" they are. While I'm obviously a bit low-profile for them to find without really trying, how often do any of them talk about, say, the Nancy Drew Adventure Game series?)

[Anthony Flack]

Speaking of GTA and its "hidden sex scenes", I saw in the paper that it has now been rerated as adults only - and pulled off all the shelves at Walmart etc. To which I say, "Er... aren't you total morons, though?"

Um, anyway...

[svero]

I think games like GTA and Aargon Deluxe and their insidious hidden sex scenes should be pulled from the shelves immediately!

- S

(svero hopes for a little free advertising - cmon' hillary and parents groups.. do your stuff)

[Robert Cummings]

What an utter load of bollocks. I've never heard such trash for ages about women working in the game industry. There's a few female game artists for starters.

Women naturally gravitate towards their interests. You will get more women working in healthcare, offices (closer to equal) and retail than men. Men are the same.

Why? because that is what they want to do. Much like we go for jobs we want to do. Nothing like what the speaker is saying. Some people like to try and take advantage of a situation, and this is transparent.

[papillon]

... I can't really think of anyone who *wants* to be in retail.

(Okay, maybe at high-end stores someone thinks they want the job because it's a nice atmosphere and they get an employee discount.)

Mostly, people do it because it's not a hard job to get. Hard to keep, maybe, but not hard to get.

And it's not all about what your interests are, either; there's the atmosphere element to consider. I *enjoy* programming, but you won't see me going for a programming position anywhere because I'm not keen on the stress and the ridiculous hours I hear about. Much happier doing my own thing.

People do what they think they _can_ do and what they're comfortable doing.

[Robert Cummings]

A lot of friends (yep female) enjoy retail. Sorry... They enjoy it because it's sociable.

This isn't supermarkets btw. I'm told it's the customer thing, selling and stuff, they're basically crucial to the business. It's good work.

[papillon]

*shrug* You have different friends than I do, I suppose. (That's not really surprising, though - most girls I know are going to be *like me* - vaguely antisocial geeks.)

Most of my opinion of retail is formed by reading the endless rants on customers_suck - which tends to make me feel like any job facing the unwashed masses will result in having food thrown at me and having to clean up when someone decides that the middle of my store is a substitute for a bathroom.

[Pyabo]

Personally, I'm tired of seeing all these articles about the lack of women in games, because it makes a basic assumption that there's somehow something *wrong* with that.

Men and women are different. So be it. It's worked out OK for the last 100,000 years or so.

I'm going to go write some articles about how the lack of men's softball and field hockey leagues in school is a real tragedy...

[soniCron]

I'm going to go write some articles about how the lack of men's softball and field hockey leagues in school is a real tragedy...

Perhaps some articles about the lack of male strippers would be more effective.

[Bmc]

it's not like most game development jobs are all that great anyways... with all the unpaid overtime and what not...

might as well work at McD's and program games for a hobby on the side.

[digriz]

Speaking of GTA and its "hidden sex scenes", I saw in the paper that it has now been rerated as adults only - and pulled off all the shelves at Walmart etc. To which I say, "Er... aren't you total morons, though?"

Um, anyway...

So, i guess it's ok to portray someone being shot in the head and perfectly fine to simulate drug running.....but not ok to show a bit of sexual content.

I would say that American society is crazy but we british aren't any better. I just don't get why extreme bloody violence is ok for walmart and a perfectly natural act isn't.

It's not that i object to any of this type of content. I just don't like these double standards that seem to be creeping into our society. Moral Minority, bite me.

Rant over. Sorry for going off topic here.

[soniCron]

I just don't get why extreme bloody violence is ok for walmart and a perfectly natural act isn't.

Because that's what the money says. People don't bitch to WalMart about the bloody violence, but they do about sex. WalMart wants to make money, plain and simple. I wouldn't expect a store like that to follow their own moral code, would you?

[cliffski]

I'd like to see more women game developers, for three reasons. Firstly its damned creepy that a job is 95% male (like my dayjob) I can handle 70 or 80%, but 95% is just damned suspicious. Even nursing isn't 95% female is it? (could be wrong there).
Secondly, I LIKE working with women, there is far less ego and far less arrogance, and less desire to work long hours to look macho. I think games programming could do with a lot more of that. I'd much rather work in a 50/50 male female environment than a room full of sweaty blokes. who wouldnt?
Thirdly, You arent going to have much luck selling games to women when you are all guys. I read once that Maxis had an unusually high ratio of women to men, and this doesn't suprise me at all. I think that its essential to have some women working for you if you arent going to subconciously alienate 50% of your target market. The Sims showed women WILL play games, they just aren't as keen on the survival horror bloodthirsty FPS genre.

[Anthony Flack]

So, i guess it's ok to portray someone being shot in the head and perfectly fine to simulate drug running.....but not ok to show a bit of sexual content.

Or, in this case, to have sexual content that is locked up and totally inaccessible... but that doesn't matter because it still exists.

[digriz]

Personally, i think it was a marketing ploy by Rockstar that has seriously backfired.

As for Women in the video games industry, I've worked with a few but they were mainly on the art side.

I have met a couple of women programmers in the industry but they used to be men. Post-op, the works.

SoniCron: I wouldn't expect anything else from Walmart. Don't they sell guns and ammunition in their stores in the US. I did here this from a Michael Moore documentary though, so who knows.

[papillon]

The funniest thing about pulling GTA is I saw some article with all the stores whining about how much money they're going to *lose* now that they've taken GTA off the shelves and can't even trade in used copies of it.

But.... NOBODY MADE YOU DO THAT! YOU DID THAT YOURSELF!

No sympathy here.

[Anthony Flack]

Yeah, but stupid nonsensical Walmart policy aside (it is, after all, the exact same game they've happily been selling for the past year), you really have to wonder what on earth the censors are thinking. If they do think.

[soniCron]

SoniCron: I wouldn't expect anything else from Walmart. Don't they sell guns and ammunition in their stores in the US. I did here this from a Michael Moore documentary though, so who knows.

What you heard from the Michael Moore documenatry (Bowling for Columbine) was that K-Mart sold ammunition. And in that case, it was handgun ammunition, which isn't used for hunting. As far as I know, Walmart only sells hunting weapons and ammunition, and there is a very large legitimate market for such things. Even so, it's been established Walmart doesn't mind selling violent products, it's sexual material that they keep out of their stores. And that's totally expected because the general American public's double standard is conducive to Walmart's content policy.

[Abscissa]

The funniest thing about pulling GTA is I saw some article with all the stores whining about how much money they're going to *lose* now that they've taken GTA off the shelves and can't even trade in used copies of it.

But.... NOBODY MADE YOU DO THAT! YOU DID THAT YOURSELF!

No sympathy here.

Ha ha! Excellent point!

[svero]

Personally, i think it was a marketing ploy by Rockstar that has seriously backfired.

Backfire eh... I bet you sales are way WAY up for GTA.

[digriz]

Oh, i wouldn't doubt that sales have gone up because of the publicity. I'm thinking more of the damage done with the retailers.

[svero]

I doubt most of the retailers care other than being annoyed that they cant take advantage of the sales boost for pr reasons. They've got to keep a good public face, but theyll be more than happy to sell the new cleaned up version or the next sequel if it keeps pulling in money.

[soniCron]

Oh, i wouldn't doubt that sales have gone up because of the publicity. I'm thinking more of the damage done with the retailers.

Think about what you just said...

Ok now. Sales go up. If sales go up, who is making all these sales? That would be... the stores!

[cliffski]

Take 2s share price:

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=T...=on&z=m&q=l&c=

suggests that analysts consider this to be very unprofitable news.
Not so many parents will be getting their children and grandchildren this game now. If it aint in WalMart...

[Abscissa]

Think about what you just said...

Ok now. Sales go up. If sales go up, who is making all these sales? That would be... the stores!

I could be wrong, but I think digriz meant damage as in "damage to the otherwise good relationship between Take Two and the retailers", rather than "damage to sales".

But, meh, I'm not really fond of Take Two anyway.

[soniCron]

I could be wrong, but I think digriz meant damage as in "damage to the otherwise good relationship between Take Two and the retailers", rather than "damage to sales".

Aha! Well, then. I'm not sure retailers could rightly be upset at Take Two. It's the public that's upset about the issue, and I have some faith in the head-honchos of said retailers they think it's just as rediculous as most of us. It's a stupid situation in the first place, and one that was only remedied in the manner as such to cover everyone's asses. I can't imagine anyone who was involved in the rerating actually believing that it got an incorrect rating in the first place. After all, nbbody's bitching at Microsoft because their kid can draw a naked woman in MS Paint. (And who hasn't done that at least once? )

[soniCron]

Oh, i wouldn't doubt that sales have gone up because of the publicity. I'm thinking more of the damage done with the retailers.

Looks like it's only getting worse! But, I digress... this thread is about female video game developers!

[papillon]

Yeah. So send me money so I can be rich and famous and tell those article writers to shove it.

[Pyabo]

Yeah. So send me money so I can be rich and famous and tell those article writers to shove it.

Roberta Williams eat your heart out!