Read this before posting a new thread

[svero]

Read the FAQ and get the format right. I've been deleting about 95% of the threads added because nobody bothers to do it right and I'm not going contact everyone individually or edit the threads myself.

[L.A.soundtrack]

I posted a thread regarding my composing availability, and I can't see it in my User CP as a being posted or created. I think I did everything right. I hope I did. Please let me know if I didn't, and I'll correct it right away. I'd love to get my info up on your site. Thanks so much.

Scooter Perrotta
scooter@lasoundtrack.com

[zoombapup]

It just needs three posts approving before youre posts become publically available automatically. Right now they need a mod to approve them.

[Vithyavu]

I wasn't really sure about that either, so I'm pretty sure I have two of the same post waiting to be approved. Sorry about that.

[Kaleetos]

Its been a couple of days since i made a portfolio post and it still hasn't showed up. I assumed at first that it required someone to approve but I didn't think it would take this long. I see there is a post referring to 3 approvals before being available publicly. Could someone explain that to me? I'm not sure what to do

[Take One]

I have a feeling my thread was rejected (I posted it two days ago). I read the FAQ and formatted it exactly how I was supposed to. If there's anything else I need to know, would it be possible to let me know?

[GuitarCrazyo]

I have two tickets for dave matthews at fenway on friday that i need to get rid of. i paid 185 for the pair

Pavilion Box 9 row C seats 2 and 3

[tristaph]

I also posted a few days ago, and my post isn't up here. I've noticed at least one more post has been added since yesterday from someone else. This means my post was not approved.

I followed the rules and the guides as far as I know. Why wasn't my post approved?

[idlekaty]

Hi there, I am having the same problem. You say we need three approved posts before anyone sees our own threads? Is this to encourage our presence on the forum?
Surely this would just encourage me to leave half-hearted comments on other posts just because I'm eager to offer my services?
Or is this board really only meant for people already in the community?
I am a bit confused.


Katy

[TMP]

I'm not sure if I'm asking this in the right place, so my apologies if i'm not but how long does it take for the moderator approve new threads?

Many Thanks

[PhRey]

I wasn't really sure about that either, so I'm pretty sure I have two of the same post waiting to be approved. Sorry about that.

The same for me...

[James Dean]

Hi,

I started a new thread on Tue 21st and it has not appeared yet. Didn't want to double post if same reasons as the users above?

Thanks

-JD

[zoombapup]

Sorry to all that posted. They tend to be pretty high traffic posts and do get buried. I think I've covered them all now.

[James Dean]

Hi

Sorry to reply to this thread again, but my account is still limited. I can't start a new thread or post without approval, even though i have posted several times already. I also can't PM anyone.

Can i get these restrictions removed? It's pretty frustrating not being able to reply/get involved with threads etc.

[PhRey]

Hi

Sorry to reply to this thread again, but my account is still limited. I can't start a new thread or post without approval, even though i have posted several times already. I also can't PM anyone.

Can i get these restrictions removed? It's pretty frustrating not being able to reply/get involved with threads etc.

Exactely the same for me, since many months, never get no answer...
http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthr...238#post229238

I have ask many times but...

[IFM]

I have the same issue. I tried posting and need approval yet there is no PM and emailing via the 'Contact Us' link has gotten nowhere.

[zoombapup]

New users should be aware that the forums just underwent an upgrade and we now have a 48 hour "cool" period, at the end of which you are a normal user and can post. Added anti-spam stuff and an easier moderator queue are now in place, so these types of issues should be gone.

[CJX]

I'm just posting here to see if I can... (I've tried several times before, unsuccessfully)

[Matt2East]

Should Indiegamer institute a clause against posting portfolios and claiming to work for nothing? Similar to the way there is a ban against project hiring for nothing or for "profit share?"

Posting a portfolio and claiming to work for absolutely nothing devalues the entire industry. If you are working for nothing, then people are more likely to think your work does not have value.

[svero]

Should Indiegamer institute a clause against posting portfolios and claiming to work for nothing?

I don't really think so. It's a different situation. The free work offers are obviously people who want to build up some credits/experience, and that can be mutually beneficial. For the profit-share game stuff, we wanted that board to be for "real work".. in the sense of a contract or salaried position. This board focuses on Indies who are producing games commercially. The offers of free help are not at odds with that. While profit-share projects may in some cases be serious work that leads eventually to money, there are just so many of these hobby groups that go nowhere in game dev, that we felt limiting it would be better. Of course developers choosing to work with someone offering free anything should be careful. That obviously has it's potential issues, but that's up to developers to decide on a case by case basis. I understand how, if you're in the business of selling music or art you don't want your work devalued or undercut by new people, but that's just the way it is in business sometimes. You'll just have to rely on your professionalism and experience to sell your service. A lot of devs will probably want someone with a solid portfolio and a track record of delivering the goods.

[Matt2East]

It's a double standard that posting projects for "profit share" is inappropriate, but offering services for nothing is acceptable on a forum intended for professionals. If you're giving away your work and the rights to your work for absolutely nothing, doesn't that make you by definition not a professional? Regardless of whether or not the project is successful, the notion is exploitive:

Example #1 - The project makes millions of dollars. The unpaid contributor earns $0 and has no rights to their work.

Example #2 - The project never gets finished. The unpaid contributor then has absolutely nothing to show in terms of "experience" or "credits" because there is no product.

Harlan Ellison said it best.

[papillon]

there are just so many of these hobby groups that go nowhere in game dev, that we felt limiting it would be better.

Sadly you can say exactly the same thing for people offering to work for free - those offers generally go nowhere and end up wasting both people's time. A LOT of people who think working in games would be super cool offer to work for free and then flake out when they get busy with their 'real' commitments.

While I would be opposed to setting a specific minimum price, I think it's reasonable to bar free offers. People just starting out and desperate for experience can always offer super-low rates. Working for money, any money, is a learning experience for a complete newbie (gives you some time dealing with the paperwork and payment issues, at least) and is an incentive on both sides to put more thought into the deal.

Unless it's already-existing free resources being offered up. That's different. But offering to actually work for someone for free tends to go wrong.

[Bad Sector]

Hm, i was under the impression that offers from people who wanted to work for profit shares are allowed. It is offers who want others work for them in exchange for profit shares that aren't allowed.

But if both cases aren't allowed (that is, an artist can't offer his services for profit shares) then i believe that Matt2East is right: if those who want to work for free to build portfolios are allowed then those who want to work for profit shares should also be allowed.

[nsmadsen]

I'll chime in here briefly -

with all due respect svero, I find your stance or argument that free vs. paid work are different things to be very weak. The end goals are mostly the same and the cross relationships and impacts on other freelancers as well as other developers can easily be demonstrated. In fact the only difference is one is seeking payment and one isn't. So I don't find it a different situation to those trying to make a living creating audio for games. I've thoroughly enjoyed my time on indiegamer and have found good work. Much of this is because the caliber of people posting and taking part on indiegamer is higher than some other game development communities. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I tie this directly to the fact that the Help Wanted forum requires paid (or in svero's words "real") work.

If freelancers are allowed to post free-to-work posts then I feel it brings down indiegamer as a resource for both freelancers and developers as well as hurts the overall impression of audio's worth. A freelancer wanting to build his or her resume and get credits can go about it in many ways besides just offering up free work. Be creative. Think outside of the box. Make your time and skills worth something, or at least something more than just a credit by itself.

That's my take anyway.

[Matt2East]

Agree 100% with Papillon.

[svero]

It's a double standard that posting projects for "profit share" is inappropriate, but offering services for nothing is acceptable on a forum intended for professionals.

But it isn't a forum for "professionals". It's a forum for indie game developers. I'm not saying it's "fair". I'm saying the bias is in favor of what's helpful to game developers. I guess I don't see why the board should be policing the music market. What's the advantage in that to indie game developers? To protect them from flaky offers? They can protect themselves.

[nsmadsen]

I'm saying the bias is in favor of what's helpful to game developers.

If that were true then why do you force them to have funds upfront? I've seen some developers post complaints about this very issue. Some developers would want to be able to post projects which require no funds but this policy, in my opinion, serves and protects the content providers working for the developers.

It's lopsided to have it both ways. All projects must be paid, but freelancers can post work-for-free ads. Just as no one is saying you have to police how much developers pay for work, no one is suggesting you police how much a freelancer charges. We're just asking that it not be zero. Seeing as how a similar policy is already in place for developers, it makes sense to ask for one for freelancers.

Otherwise it's akin to locking the front door but leaving the back door completely open.

[svero]

Well I'll think about it... I have a possible solution that might keep everyone happy.

[luggage]

I consider them different things too. Everyone would like people to work for them for free but very few will want to give up their time for nothing.

Asking people to do unpaid work for you is cheeky, but offering your services for nothing is generous.

[nsmadsen]

Luggage - I guess we can agree to disagree then. For me I look at it like so:

Freelancers offering work for payment basically want to:

• Increase their resumes and demo reels in order to land more work.
• Want to create audio content for commercial products.
• Want to build relationships with more clients so they can keep freelancing or land an eventual in-house position.
• and have to pay for their gear and maintain their studio.
  

Freelancers offering work for non payment basically want to:

• Increase their resumes and demo reels in order to land more work.
• Want to create audio content for commercial products.
• Want to build relationships with more clients so they can keep freelancing or land an eventual in-house position.
• and have to pay for their gear and maintain their studio.

The only difference is they're offering it for nothing which helps promote the mentality that audio is worth, at the worst, very little and at the best, lower than what the standard industry rate is. This whole notion that just because they're offering their work for free it's a different situation is, in my belief, flawed because that's the one and only variable. Everything else about the situation is basically identical. In other industries people starting their business charge for their services. It's the only way to start getting traction and also pay for the investments they've made to create the business in the first place. A doctor starting out doesn't take on patients for free. A discount, sure but not for free. A new restaurant doesn't operate for free in hopes of gaining more customers. They offer small, temporary perks to bring attention to the business and hopefully hook loyal customers.

I have no problem with someone wanting to charge $1 per track of music. I don't think it's the best approach but I don't have a problem with it. But to say they're different or somehow unrelated to those charging for doing the same exact thing... doesn't compute well with me. Plus when I've seen some (scummy) developers actively seek out the free guys instead of paying for content... it leaves a sour taste in my mouth about the whole thing. (Note: thankfully most developers don't do this... but there are some out there that do.)

I would agree that its a different thing if it were a complete team of hobbyists and amateurs working on a hobby project. Something that wasn't going to be commercial, but seeing as how indiegamer requires all projects pay their team members most projects (if not all) on indiegamer have some sort of commercial goals or aims.

But back to the true subject at hand: in my opinion indiegamer either needs to make all posts (developers and freelancers) for some form of solid payment or open it up so any and all can post for paid and free work. In my experience indiegamer has done well to offer only paid work as it keeps the "WoW-killer MMO ZOMG! We're gonna be rich!!! But work for completely free!" projects at bay and keeps the caliber of people and projects higher.