Bejeweled/Bejeweled 2 what made them so popular in particular?

[Yuriy O]

Hi,

I was wondering. Let's say we will make a game with same core game play as bejeweled, but a different twist of graphics and few other details. Will it sell as good as the original title or what? I can even guarantee the execution quality.

I kinda doubt that it will sell as good as the original due time factor/first out/right time for marketing/etc?

What made it hit the market that well?

What are your thoughts? Thanks

[soniCron]

I kinda doubt that it will sell as good as the original due time factor/first out/right time for marketing/etc?

Quality, fun, and audience are the only real properties that seem to make any difference. While it's lazy to just copy a game like Bejeweled, if it really is much higher quality, and reaches the same audience, it will at least beat the current sales of Bejeweled. But there are numerous people who have already tried Bejeweled and have either spent money on it, or decided they didn't like it (very simplified). Because of this, your audience has been decreased. Therefore, all the factors are not on par with the original game, and that makes it essentially random (in that we can't predict what the future will hold). So, it's basically luck.

[Sharpfish]

Hi,

I was wondering. Let's say we will make a game with same core game play as bejeweled, but a different twist of graphics and few other details. Will it sell as good as the original title or what? I can even guarantee the execution quality.

I kinda doubt that it will sell as good as the original due time factor/first out/right time for marketing/etc?

What made it hit the market that well?

What are your thoughts? Thanks

My thoughts are - we have a widley known genre of games called "bejewelled clones". This genre itself is advertising the original game (more so than any game it was itself derived from in the casual games market). Therefore I would think it was extremely difficult to match never mind surpass the sucess of bejewelled just by "doing it better". You also have to ask about advertising budgets (pop cap are not short of money obviously). A game like "jewel quest" which I actually prefer to bejewelled (not that I am saying bejewelled - esp 2 - is not a great/polished title) did what bejewelled did and imo had deeper gameplay due to the filling in of the background tiles. On a polish level it had a great progress device with the book and pages being levels etc. Not sure how well it did compared to B/B2 but it did do well obviously.

If you can change more than just the graphics - while keeping the simple/intuative and (for many) enjoyable gameplay style while also being as polished or MORE polished than the above titles then the rest is down to marketing and fuzzy logic I suppose. In some ways the success of that game has created and audience for clones of it so it helps future similar games, in another way I would assume it may be the only one of that gametype that people want to own... unless a theme from another game really wins them over.

There are people out there who buy every breakout clone they can because they love that gameplay. A more recent example would be the puzzloop style games.. people like them.. and buy "newer" versions of them.

I guess no-one ever knows until they put it out just how well something will do. On the other hand, I think some games have "sure fire hit" written all over them.. one that springs to mind is CHUZZLE (raptisoft/popcap). If it was "just" the sliding/match gameplay we have seen before then it would be down to luck and marketing again.. if it was JUST nice graphics but with zero gameplay it wouldn't do too well. By combining both in a simple/solid format while also being a few steps ahead in polish/theme you can say it could become the leader in it's style of game. Though this is just opinion and I have no real facts to back that up

Maybe the Bejwelled gameplay will always be more "meditive state + relaxing + enjoyable" style that the "largest part" of the "casual audience" prefer - where as the sliding style of CHUZZLE etc may be slightly less popular.. so many factors come into the equasion.

If we want hard facts and more insight, I think the guys from POP CAP would be the ones to ask.. I don't think they would even release a game unless they knew it would make a certain ROI and because they are (I assume) already more than secure with their incomes and revenue they can spend longer thinking about quality rather than quantity. And they obviously spend a hell of a long time attempting to get everything spot on in the areas that casual consumers love.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Bejeweled to me (which I much confess I first tried only 2 weeks ago) has several things going for it. But your question was not bettering it as a game so much as repackaging it in a prettier container.

No I don't think you will better it, or even equal it, sales wise. Several reasons off the top of my head:

1) Mindshare factor - "First to market" helped here.
2) Head start (time) (see #1)
3) Competition (for mindshare, attention)
4) lots of people already have it. Why purchase the exact same thing again?

What made it hit the market that well?

let's see. In my opinion...

* Simplicity (refined to the core gameplay w/ few bells & whistles)
* Accessibility (you don't need much brains to play, good for after work when you are brain dead)
* Clarity (in gameplay and visuals)
* Subtlety (play and some strategies emerge)
* Balance (look closely at the grid size and the gem distribution)
* Lack of competition (initially)
* Polish (in game, and sales methods)
* Novelty (at the time)
* Portability (PC, Mac, Web, Palm, etc)

I know I left out some things... oh well.

Sometimes all the factors come together for a game in a 'perfect storm' sort of way and the game's a monster hit blowing your expectations away. You really can't see that coming, and it doesn't happen that often, and I don't think you can seriously put that in your business plan. That's no reason not try, because (to borrow from the lottery) "you can't win if you don't play".

[Bmc]

I was wondering. Let's say we will make a game with same core game play as bejeweled, but a different twist of graphics and few other details.

Your game needs to have some type of unique selling point. More then just different graphics. How is it unique? Could be the goals, slight twist of the game mechanics, theme, improvements etc.

Will it sell as good as the original title or what?

You won't know for sure until it's on the market. It will depend on numerous factors.

[svero]

I was wondering. Let's say we will make a game with same core game play as bejeweled, but a different twist of graphics and few other details. Will it sell as good as the original title or what? I can even guarantee the execution quality.

What made it hit the market that well?

I find it strange that you guarantee that you can execute the game with the same quality, but you're not sure why they're popular. Given the nature of your question my advice is to avoid this genre completely. Competition is too tough in casual gaming to approach it lightly. You want to have a REALLY clear idea of all the factors involved in making this kind of game popular before you start, because the people at numerous companies like popcap and reflexive who already have this knowledge are going to be competing directly with you and it's mostly a hit driven business.

Thankfully a lot of the game design issues are discussed in detail on this board and by some of the very same people that have made top casual games. Looks in the archives for James Smith's excellent post on layered timed player rewards, or for posts on how to balance bonuses, etc... Just don't make the mistake of thinking you can execute a game with the same rough gameplay mechanism and quality of graphics and that will be enough to succeed. It's all in the fine tuning.

[Yuriy O]

I appreciate everybodys opinion. Feel free to add.

[baegsi]

Let's say we will make a game with same core game play as bejeweled, but a different twist of graphics and few other details. Will it sell as good as the original title or what? I can even guarantee the execution quality.

IMHO, this is the strategy of well funded studios executed by a "well underfunded" indie. There could be a problem here.

[Yuriy O]

IMHO, this is the strategy of well funded studios executed by a "well underfunded" indie. There could be a problem here.

What type of a problem do you foresee in it?

[ErikH2000]

I made a match-3 type game under contract for another company. They will get to market it and try making money from it, but I got to design and program it.

The big lesson was "harder than it looks". I have a lot more respect for the genre now. Anybody can throw together a nice-looking clone, but to make it play well is quite an art. And I just don't mean obvious things like responsive UI, good animation, etc. There is a psychological factor to get right. So I would look at my game under development and then go play Bejeweled 2 for a bit. >>gulp<< It wasn't a fun comparison to make. Of course if I had six months instead of six weeks to make the game, I wouldn't have felt the fear clamp in my stomach so much, but that's a different story. Think of pinball games and how there are thousands of variations out there of that same stupid game, but some are much more fun and successful. That's how pattern-matching games are. The fact that the game is so simple demands amazingly subtle refinements to be competitive.

-Erik

[HunterSD]

How can you guarantee execution quality if you haven't made anything like Bejwelled/Bejewelled 2 before?

[baegsi]

What type of a problem do you foresee in it?

Competition. You pick a field where a lot of better funded developers (presumably you are a typical indie) reside. Just improving graphics and little tweaking is expensive and difficult to stand out.

[Yuriy O]

How can you guarantee execution quality if you haven't made anything like Bejwelled/Bejewelled 2 before?

My team has plenty of experience and resources.

[Yuriy O]

Competition. You pick a field where a lot of better funded developers (presumably you are a typical indie) reside. Just improving graphics and little tweaking is expensive and difficult to stand out.

Funds can be solved, that's least of the problem

[HunterSD]

My team has plenty of experience and resources.

Define 'plenty of experience and resources'?

Did they make Zuma and have a year to kill?

[Anthony Flack]

I say go for it.

[Vorax]

My team has plenty of experience and resources.

My thoughts on this: If you have plenty of experience and resources, then instead of building a clone of a great selling game - build a NEW great selling game.

Even a good clone of Bejewled, this late in the game, won't make a 10th what the original made. Why settle for 10% (at best)?

Even if your game doesn't end up as popular, if it's very pollished and fun, then you will probably still beat what the YYAC (Yawn...Yet Another Clone) version will make.

My $.02 cents

[Yuriy O]

saying bejewelled - esp 2 - is not a great/polished title) did what bejewelled did and imo had deeper gameplay due to the filling in of the background tiles.

Do you think that having to fill the backgrounds of the tiles wins over regular "bejeweled swap"?

+ it's different - adds a task to a player
- it adds more distraction to a player, other than just swapping gems

What do you think?

[ErikH2000]

Do you think that having to fill the backgrounds of the tiles wins over regular "bejeweled swap"?

Are you just trying to come up with some new idea for your game to make it better? I think you want to get a quick prototype going and experiment to see what makes a fun game. On the match-3 game I wrote, the publisher wanted a detailed design document written before the game. I had to come up with new ideas to set the game apart from others in the genre. It was easy to think of some things and write them in the doc, but when I wrote the actual game, some of the ideas weren't very fun and had to be revised. Thankfully the publisher was not as inflexible as I'd feared.

What I'm saying is that it isn't worth much to decide on paper what the nifty new mechanics of your game will be. You might want to write down a number of ideas and then experiment with them in code. You can make a good evaluation after you see them implemented.

-Erik

[Yuriy O]

What I'm saying is that it isn't worth much to decide on paper what the nifty new mechanics of your game will be. You might want to write down a number of ideas and then experiment with them in code. You can make a good evaluation after you see them implemented.

Yes, I Agree with that. I was just curious about others opinion on this particular aspect.

[Sharpfish]

Do you think that having to fill the backgrounds of the tiles wins over regular "bejeweled swap"?

+ it's different - adds a task to a player
- it adds more distraction to a player, other than just swapping gems

What do you think?

I just think it was "deeper" but still casual. I have zero experience in the marketing of casual games to know for sure but yeah, jewel quest seemed more challenging and rewarding to myself and my test monkey (my fiancee') .

.. however, it could as you say cause more of a distraction to the uber-casual player, you just have to go with your instincts, build a prototype and get a few people to test the different varieties. Maybe end up blending them or concentrating on one pure gameplay style. With games like that, only a proto is going to give you concrete answers (and even then you can't guess how the market will receive it).

[HunterSD]

I hate to be a party pooper, but the statement:

I can even guarantee the execution quality.

And the question:

What made it hit the market that well?

Don't sit well together. By all means try - but you're in for a very, very tough education in what it's really like to make one of those 'simple' games.