What made *you* become an indie? And if you didn't yet, why not?

[Applewood]

Because I'm happy with the statement? It's you trying to disprove it - so go right ahead. I've looked up ahead and don't see anywhere where I started disagreeing either. My first post is #8 so go ahead, point out my disagreeing. In my limited vocabulary I would class my statement as an attempted explanation. This has gotten bizarre again. Funny how it always happens when one of half a dozen people show up.

As to the thing about being confrontational? Not really. If you can find anything vaguely rude about my initial comment, please do explain and if there's anything to apologise for I'll glady do so. I do get confrontational when people start taking me for an idiot, especially as they're always strangely anonymous.

[Indinera]

You do not appear very open-minded on some things imo, not necessarily in this thread in particular, but I've felt so with past discussions. Somehow I think you associate people that do not fit the "theoretical mould" as silly outcasts that should be put back on the right track... better keep cool about it, not try to prove right or wrong, the net is vast and each dev has his own story.

[Reives Freebird]

On a lighter note-- Really? No one else went indie so they can work in their underpants. . . ?

[Adrian Lopez]

You know what could settle this argument?

A survey!

PS - <-- biting my tongue.

[Indinera]

On a lighter note-- Really? No one else went indie so they can work in their underpants. . . ?

aha, it's too warm in here for underpants O__o

[dcfedor]

You know what could settle this argument?

A survey!

PS - <-- biting my tongue.

I'll get on it!

[Jack Norton]

[Applewood]

You do not appear very open-minded on some things imo, not necessarily in this thread in particular, but I've felt so with past discussions. Somehow I think you associate people that do not fit the "theoretical mould" as silly outcasts that should be put back on the right track... better keep cool about it, not try to prove right or wrong, the net is vast and each dev has his own story.

I'll concede to the first part. After 25+ years I think I've seen it all tbh and I do get frustrated when people treat me like I'm some n00b, especially when they think they have all the right answers and I know from experience that they don't. But whatever, I don't know why certain people wind me up so much either tbh.

@Jack, nice mood lightener.

[Nexic]

In my limited vocabulary I would class my statement as an attempted explanation.

Actually, it's a thinly veiled insult directed at those who didn't do things the way you did them. You're a pro at posting bait like this, then crying about it when people dare to argue with you.

I do get frustrated when people treat me like I'm some n00b

Likewise.

I do get confrontational when people start taking me for an idiot, especially as they're always strangely anonymous

As for the anonymous thing, I would of thought anyone who's been here for as long as you would know who I am. I had my identity in my sig for 6+ years, I only recently removed it once my own players started lurking these boards.

[Applewood]

Hmmm. I actively court interaction with my players. As for the rest, whatever - see what you want to see.

[Nexic]

I used to do that too, back when there weren't millions of them.

[Applewood]

Yep, good job it's just me that makes barbed comments huh. At least stop being a hypocrit. I'm happy enough with my single million, thanks.

[Nexic]

At least stop being a hypocrit

So many levels of irony

[jcottier]

aha, it's too warm in here for underpants O__o

Where are you located?

JC

[Applewood]

And you missed them all. If you're gonna accuse me of making barbed comments and then do so yourself, that makes you a hypocrit. By any definition. Now kindly leave me alone as I've got work to do. Is there a way to block a user on here?

EDIT: Bliss, found it.

[Jack Norton]

As for the anonymous thing, I would of thought anyone who's been here for as long as you would know who I am. I had my identity in my sig for 6+ years, I only recently removed it once my own players started lurking these boards.

Haha that explains a lot of things and some posts you edited (I wondered why indeed). Now I know

[Grey Alien]

Seems that a few people I know in Vancouver assume that most indies were game industry vets who went indie after quitting or being laid off. But I know tons who never worked on the game industry (like myself - I made business software before going indie) and also lots of students who just went indie (very brave, and possibly foolish, in my opinion). In fact the Vancouver indie meetup that I co-founded contains a ton of non-game industry vets. However, I spoke to someone who knows the scene well in Toronto and he said that he believed 90% of people going indie were game industry vets based on surveys he's done etc.

[Applewood]

Plus of course you have to add a filter to detect the difference between those that are giving it a go and those that are still doing it as a full time main job a year or so later. Start ups at any level are just start ups - anyone can try that, it's whether it actually gets started that matters.

[ManuelMarino]

Being indie is a way of life. It's not a matter of money or talent, it's how you want to work, what you want to do and how you want to reach the audience.

Add that you put your name into the cocktail, you want to be recognized.

[dcfedor]

For those interested, I've compiled a follow-up report on the survey. It talks about some of the more significant findings, as well as recommendations for improving working conditions for studio employees:

http://gamedevgonerogue.blogspot.com/2011/09/indie-developer-survey-results.html


Of course, the findings are only my own interpretations, and readers are welcome to make their own hypotheses based on the freely available raw data.

Thanks again for the input!

[DaveGilbert]

How come nobody has mentioned the hordes of groupies all devs get when they become an indie? Or is it just me?

[Arowx]

Not doing it for the groupies, for me it's the concept of making my own way in life being my own boss. Of course the dream version of this is me sitting in a penthouse flat with infinity pool (optional groupies) working away on my next amazing game!

The reality is I'm sitting in a comfy chair in my bedroom with a cuppa tea whilst writing on a forum and avoiding completing my next game as the lovely unity game engine keeps imploding when I try and get the fireball collision damage to work!

Still I can dream!

[ManuelMarino]

This reminds me The Social Network, and how easy it was to become a multi million dollar man. But in that case, the dream became true...

[Indinera]

How come nobody has mentioned the hordes of groupies all devs get when they become an indie? Or is it just me?

so true lol

[Jack Norton]

Depends which games you make. When I was doing sport sims and serious games... no groupies. Now that I do mainly female targeted games... mouhahaha

[Applewood]

Being indie is a way of life. It's not a matter of money or talent, it's how you want to work, what you want to do and how you want to reach the audience.

Add that you put your name into the cocktail, you want to be recognized.

Not really. We're an indie studio with an office and employees. It's just the same as working for a bigger firm, except we do our own stuff.

[mwtb]

Perhaps it would be more interesting to have a poll to determine the acceptable envelope of indie-ness. You only get to wear the Indie badge if you aren't in a relationship with a publisher and..?

• You spend any time working on games.
• You're working full-time on games with the intention of making a living from them.
• You have worked on a completed game.
• You have worked on a completed game that's half-decent*.
• You've worked on a game that has sold at least one copy.
• Your indie game income is enough to live on*.
• Your indie game income is equal to or greater than what you could earn as an employee*.
• Your indie game income is enough to pay for a comfortable lifestyle in a 1st-world country*.
• Your indie game income will pay for a nice* detached house, private education for two kids and a BMW each for you and your stay-at-home wife/husband.

* Obviously you'd need separate polls to determine the definition of these.

[Applewood]

I don't even think a publisher involvement should rule out indieness tbh. I've been advocate over the years for making that the only definition, but I've changed my mind a bit. We have a couple of publishers on the hook for our indie games and it'd be stupid for us to turn down any deals purely because they are called publishers and we'd still like to be called indie.

I think the bottom line for me is that you are indie if you (largely) call your own shots and make a permie-equivalent salary by doing your own games and getting your own publishing/distribution/sales deals.

Notwithstanding any finessing, I think you have to be making enough to live on as a no excuses proper salary. Without that then you've not really made it as an anything. I could call myself an independent bricklayer otherwise, as I once made a really bad retaining wall in my garden!

[Indinera]

To me indie is having no-one as a superior -> independent
And obviously making a living out of the games made.

[Jack Norton]

I don't even think a publisher involvement should rule out indieness tbh. I've been advocate over the years for making that the only definition, but I've changed my mind a bit. We have a couple of publishers on the hook for our indie games and it'd be stupid for us to turn down any deals purely because they are called publishers and we'd still like to be called indie.

I agree, IF you made the game first based on your own idea, complete freedom, etc. THEN, if when the game is done and you're selling it on your own, a publisher wants to publish it, that's OK. After all even Steam is a publisher/distributor but Cliff, Caspian, etc are definitely still indies.