Oh, THANK YOU, Apple! So kind.

[Musenik]

Apple's email:

Thank you for making the Mac OS X Download site a great destination with apps that offer users new ways to work, play, learn, and create on their Mac.

We recently announced that on January 6, 2011, the Mac App Store will open to users around the world, presenting you with an exciting, new opportunity to reach millions of customers. Since the introduction of the App Store in 2008, we've been thrilled with the incredible support from developers and the enthusiastic response from users. Now we're bringing the revolutionary experience of the App Store to Mac OS X.

Because we believe the Mac App Store will be the best destination for users to discover, purchase, and download your apps, we will no longer offer apps on the Mac OS X Downloads site. Instead, beginning January 6, we will be directing users to explore the range of apps available on the Mac App Store.

We appreciate your support of the Mac platform and hope you'll take advantage of this new opportunity to showcase your apps to even more users.

(yep, they appreciate it enough to force me to hire a specialist in order to figure out how to wrap my pygame apps with their FRM. Ooop, did I type F instead of D?)

Valve on the other hand bent over backwards to fix their wrapper when the pygame app broke it.

[princec]

Just got that email too. Then discovered when I went to "find out more" that my Apple ID has been "disabled for security reasons". Grr.

I for one welcome my new Steam overlords.

Cas

[CasualInsider]

Steam needs to do apps already.

[elias4444]

I'm just going to miss the free advertising that the Mac OS downloads site gave me.

Oh well. Time to make Valve happy.

[Bad Sector]

What does Mac App Store need from developers and how is it different from Steam?

[elias4444]

The Mac App Store is basically like the iOS App store...

You need to pay a yearly developer "due" and you need to code everything within Apple's frameworks (no Java, python, etc.). I'm sure apps will be subject to Steve Job's stamp of approval as well.

[ManuTOO]

"You do not have access to this resource based on your membership."
That's what I'm told when I want to know what I should do to go on Apple Store.
If Apple expects me to pay the required $99 to know what hassle is waiting for me, it can wait long time.

Funnily, just a few days ago, I tried to look how good the Apple store was to promote iPhone games. Long story short, it ain't any good.

Explanation :
I went to the Apple Store from looking "Apple Store" on Google (don't even think about looking for "iPhone game store" or anything like that) : http://store.apple.com/us .
From there, I clicked the big "iPhone" button on the top bar : http://www.apple.com/iphone/ . So far, so good.
Ok, here nothing about "game", so let's try to click on "Apps for iPhone" : http://www.apple.com/iphone/apps-for-iphone/ .
Still no game... Thinking, thinking... I scroll the bar in the middle, till I can find "Apps for Fun & Game". Woh, I'm almost there ! A click : no, no change of Url, just some ads in the middle...
But wait, there's a link to click "Discover Apps for fun & game", it must be that ! => http://www.apple.com/iphone/apps-for...and-games.html .
Ok, there I got 7 games, finally. But, hum, where are the other games ? No listing, no browsing, no info, "no nothing"..!!
I didn't go this far to give up now, I click on a game, let's try Scrabble : http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/scrab...284815117?mt=8 .
On this new page, I got a short list of other apps from the same developer/publisher, and a "Customers Also Bought" with 5 games. Still no hint about any listing / browsing capability...
I look more & more on this page, till I finally find "Category: Games", "Games" being a link. I click on it and I arrive there : http://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/mob...ns/id6014?mt=8 .
I finally got my game listing : only name, no pic, no short description, no type (freeware/demo/shareware), no price. Only an awful long list of names sorted by only 19 categories, without any subcategories.
Thanks Apple, I see now why u need $99 / year. You have to pay a few hundred of developers to make you a app browser that is actually usable & useful.

New long story short : I used to pay nothing to get nice advertising ; I'll have to pay a massive $99 /year to be buried away after pages & pages of junk, so no one will ever see my games anymore.
Thanks Apple, you made my day...

(And all of this, without talking about any DRM & % cut from Apple that I may have to endure to have the chance to be listed on this piece of .....)

[meds]

Apple, jerking around developers since 1678. They got lucky with the iPhone that's why they think they can get away with even more douchbaggery.

[richtaur]

So what is the news in lamen's terms? I've been a Mac user for some years but I'm not too familiar with their development stack. It sounds to me like developers used to be able to develop native OSX apps for free, and now they have to pay Apple dev fees? Is that correct?

[Adrian Lopez]

I wonder if this new App Store will send Mac OS software prices on a downward spiral.

"Hey, great game, but why do I have to pay $19.95 when Super Generic Mega Clone is only 99 cents?"

[Bad Sector]

It sounds to me like developers used to be able to develop native OSX apps for free, and now they have to pay Apple dev fees? Is that correct?

No, this is about adding your apps/games to their Mac App Store (think Steam for apps and casual games).

[Man of Ice]

Personally I find it fantastic to have a central store similar to iOS app store and others are doing the same (Android, Nokia etc)

Great opportunity for indies - and just look at how prolific it has been for indie developers the last years to be able to compete on a market where small, fun games beat the crap out of big IP remake #92348237 and actually gave real money to a lot of us.

Hopefully this now happens on the Mac app store too - although hard to know how big that market really is for game devs. Lets see! I'm definitely playing the lottery ticket there.

/Thomas

[Jack Norton]

Lets see! I'm definitely playing the lottery ticket there.

You don't have long-term business by using that system
I don't want to repeat how bad it is since I already complained in an old thread, listing the new problems that will arise:

Before:
No fee, you keep 100% of income, direct links to YOUR website, no limitations/censorship, upload to YOUR website which takes 10min depending on your connection speed

After:
Small fee, 70% of NET (and you know they can put any sort of expense), no links to your website, lots of limitations, insane certification/approval which can delay a relase even by 1-2 weeks or being rejected completely

Perfect time to move to webgames or linux market. Seriously

p.s. I heard Apple plans to launch InternetApple 2.0, an exclusive new internet world available only for Apple devices, which will cost only $999/year vs $0 of the normal, beggar-like, free internet!

[electronicStar]

Personally I find it fantastic to have a central store similar to iOS app store and others are doing the same (Android, Nokia etc)

It's a dream come true for fart-apps devellopers

p.s. I heard Apple plans to launch InternetApple 2.0, an exclusive new internet world available only for Apple devices, which will cost only $999/year vs $0 of the normal, beggar-like, free internet!

you just described Google's actual plans.



Maybe someone with a lot of traffic from apple buyers should create a free portal and indie mac devellopers should team up to distribute their games there?

[Red Marble Games]

Great! All you angry folks, please DO stay off the Mac App Store -- it will cut down on the competition. I for one was happy to pay the $99 -- that's nothing for a chance to have my games exposed to an exponentially greater number of users than my regular marketing was able to accomplish. And Apple's 30% cut is less than most portals take, with probably greater reach than those have (even Steam). The complaints about not getting customer information are, of course, legitimate, as is the advice that you shouldn't build your business to be dependent on a third-party distributor if you can help it. But none of these arguments is any different than those concerning any other portal that we've been dealing with since the beginning of time.

And while I can't speak to the difficulty of getting pygames ready for the Mac App Store, the process for my games, all in C++, was basically a snap. Again, small investment of time for potentially large return.

IMHO.

[PoV]

Your prime Mac consumer eyeball real-estate is now mine.

It's a dream come true for fart-apps developers

[Jack Norton]

I for one was happy to pay the $99 -- that's nothing for a chance to have my games exposed to an exponentially greater number of users than my regular marketing was able to accomplish.

Well, is not like that by magic the number of Macs sold will multiply by 10 because of the appstore. I mean you get the same exposure before you got for free
Also if you use C++ good for you (I have some C++ games too). But considering MacOs is based on linux and has python pre-installed, the troubles running pygame is somewhat hilarious (it SHOULD work very easily!).
Their policies also forbid using software made with GPL I think (not sure though), so I can't submit my Ren'Py games (while they are on Impulse and other portals without problems).

The interesting thing as you said is the fee, that should keep most crap games out (I remember some mac games that would always get "updated" during weekend with fake updates to stay on top of the listing).

[Bad Sector]

But considering MacOs is based on linux and has python pre-installed, the troubles running pygame is somewhat hilarious (it SHOULD work very easily!).

Actually Mac OS X is based on Darwin which itself is based on FreeBSD, although there are many modifications. There are no Linux connections and Mac OS X is a BSD derivative (although the implications usually do not concern desktop app developers).

But yes, it has Python preinstalled :-).

But how is Python a problem actually?

[speeder]

Apple do several stuff to force you to buy a Mac to develop to a Mac.

For example they mix proprietary stuff with open source stuff, and you can only reasonably develop and test the things that use proprietary stuff with a Mac.

[jcottier]

Apple do several stuff to force you to buy a Mac to develop to a Mac.

That's a silly comment
Apples create their tools for Mac obviously, that is why you need a Mac. Why on earth would they make them for PC or Linux??? What would be their reason to do all this extra work?

JC

[Xiotex]

Apple do several stuff to force you to buy a Mac to develop to a Mac.

For example they mix proprietary stuff with open source stuff, and you can only reasonably develop and test the things that use proprietary stuff with a Mac.

Show me a version of Visual studio that runs on a Mac without Parallels, vmware, wine or some other virtual machine system.

[Jack Norton]

What speeder says is absolutely true.
I can compile a Renpy game on Linux and sell it, without the need to own a PC or Windows. In apple mac store you'll have to use the certification , so you NEED a mac.
Similarly you can compile games for Android on Pc/Mac/Linux (even if I heard is more complex on some platforms). You don't NEED to have a mac, or pay the developer program subscription... a small difference

p.s. Oh and we want to talk about the forced upgrade of the OS? I can compile a game on PC with windows2000 (an OS of TEN YEARS AGO) while to compile for iphone OS4 I needed 10.5 MINIMUM (1-2 years ago)...

[speeder]

Not wanting to be an ass, but PC != Windows.

:P

But yes, you are right.

[Dri]

To be fair, you will need a Mac to try and debug your game anyway.
It's not really an issue, having the platform you're developing for is needed in any case.
Even if all your code is cross-platform, you will always need to adapt some parts to match the OS guidelines.

Trying to do it without the platform available to try is impossible, so you need one anyway.

[papillon]

While I own a Mac for doing basic HCF checks because I'm paranoid about that (and do some engine hacking at times which means it does need testing), with some cross-platform tools the odds of anything being different across OSes is REALLY rare. So no, you don't "always" need to adapt it, if you're using a tool that is designed properly and making a game that doesn't push the envelope enough to need more specialised tweaking.

And the tester Mac I have is not up to the requirements for the new Apple program.

[Jack Norton]

I know that both using Renpy and Unity, you actually don't NEED to own a mac. The game WILL run the same on Pc, Mac and Linux (renpy, not unity). If there's a bug on Mac, there's also on PC (unless if it's of the engine, but then it's not your fault, but engine coder's one!).
Like hanako I have a macmini, but when I tried to upgrade to latest snow leopard OS, and it REFUSED because I don't have 1Gb (I have a PC with win2000 and 512mb and I can use all my dev tool if I want), I definitely gave up being milked from Apple... there's a limit for everything!!

[Grey Alien]

Blitzmax also needs a Mac to compile the MAc version. But I agree that it's good practice to test and fix platform specific bugs on a machine you own. Mind you I'm now wondering about this proprietary language limitation thing: does it mean I couldn't use BMax any more to get a game on the new app store?

Anyway, this new app store development sounds like it could be annoying, or good. Time will tell.