End of Reflexive Affiliate System - Beginning of ?

[BantamCityGames]

I've been trying to figure out what to do once our affiliate 'arcade' fails to function anymore (due to it being entirely Reflexive games). I have a newsletter subscription list of 1-2k and don't want to lose them all so I would like to replace the system with something else.

I've emailed back and forth with a couple people from BMT Micro and they have added bits and pieces to their system that help, but nothing to totally replace the reflexive system yet. With the June 30th date quickly approaching, I'm starting to work on alternatives.

I'm developing a php/mysql interface to add/query game information in a similar way as the Reflexive system used to work. I think I can have something done by the 30th (being extremely part time for me).

I will definitely have OUR arcade site up and running with at least a handful of games using BMT Micro product IDs to get the download links and buy pages.

I would like to provide this php api / mysql database sync functionality to everyone here when I'm done, but wanted to find out if there was any interest before I go ahead with the extra work.

The system would be somewhat simpler than the reflexive system and would consist of an interface where anyone can add a BMT Micro affiliated game and then one of the admin/moderators would have to approve it. From there it would be available to all users of the api as soon as they ran their mysql sync script (which I would like to provide). The only interface I would provide is the 'developer' interface of a php library and a setup/sync script for the tables in the db. There's not an easy way to get all of the necessary information from BMT so for now it would have to be entered into the 'Add Game' page (things like descriptions and screenshots, etc).

Would anyone be interested in this?... and I mean actually use it? If not, I'll probably just keep things a bit simple and make it work for my site only at the moment.

The benefit to having everyone use it is that it would essentially be a way to quickly affiliate your game across all of the sites that use this api without going through publishers and being able to add other people's games without the manual work of putting it on your site.

[Maupin]

Better yet, how about generating an XML feed of participating BMT Micro games in some sort of standard format? (Or does this already exist?) That way sites like mine that avoid PHP can grab the feed, grab the game description and graphics, and automatically add the games to our sites?

Basically it would be a replacement of the Reflexive XML feed with content provided by the developers and approved/hosted at a central location.

That's something that would be easy to code up and host ... the problem is taking the time to approve games, proofread descriptions, graphics, etc.

[BantamCityGames]

That's a great idea. I know some will want the php api, but the XML feed would be fairly easy to add on to that. In fact I was trying to decide how the mysql sync would work and we could use XML as the intermediary format.

I think BMT has some level of reporting/feed, but I don't know what it looks like yet and I'm guessing it wont have things like screenshot urls and stuff like that, but I could be wrong.

You are right about the approval process, but I can't think of another way to keep all of the spam out. If we get some volunteer moderators it may make it easier.

Not much response yet... please respond to this thread if you are interested so I know if there is enough demand to even bother.

[papillon]

I don't affiliate a lot of games and the ones I do I hand-pick, so I wouldn't be interested in using such a system to put more games on my own site, but I'm definitely in favor of simplified mass-affiliating tools for BMT Micro that I can add my stuff to.

[Jack Norton]

Same reply as above
Considering the good selling games are just a few every year/month, I wouldn't really be interested as "publisher". And a replacement for casual games is going to be difficult (there's only BFG now).

[lennard]

I appreciate the effort and would definitely evaluate it for my needs. Thanks.

[hippocoder]

I raise my hand to this, and I am looking for a mass-affiliate system. I would like to just focus on the site rather than looking for new games all the time.

[GolfHacker]

I also hand-pick the games I put on my site, so I wouldn't use a mass-affiliate system.

[BantamCityGames]

Hmmm... ok, so some of you hand pick the games. That makes sense. Would you use the above system if it let you specify an inclusion filter and you passed it the games you wanted (or some other mechanism to pick the games)? or do you also like to hand pick the screenshots and write your own marketing copy? (serious question, not being sarcastic).

[Pogacha]

With BMT ... do you need to have a separate vendor and affiliate account?

[Jack Norton]

Pogacha: yes separate one, but you can be paid merging the two incomes.
BantamCityGames: I am handpicking and in most cases writing custom description for SEO reasons. But really with both Reflexive and also BFG you could just put the BUY and DOWNLOAD links with the affiliation id (so not much difference between affiliating directly with the vendor).

If I can I always prefer to affiliate directly with the developer

[papillon]

Would you use the above system if it let you specify an inclusion filter and you passed it the games you wanted (or some other mechanism to pick the games)? or do you also like to hand pick the screenshots and write your own marketing copy? (serious question, not being sarcastic).

I don't *like* handpicking screenshots and writing someone else's copy, so I might be willing to just grab them from something if it was sufficiently easy to get it onto my site. I would potentially list a few more of the borderline games (games that are sort of vaguely appropriate for my audience but aren't going to sell more than a few copies, making it not entirely worth my time to put them up) if it took extremely little time to do so.

You might want to talk to Amanda, as she runs more of a mini-portal.

[BantamCityGames]

Ok, not the huge response I was expecting (considering how many people were upset by Reflexive pulling out). I'm a bit torn at the moment. I don't want to put much development into something that no one is going to use, but on the other hand, if I can at least get a decent number of developers with BMT vendor accounts to add their games to the system then anyone that wants to use the system will have some games to choose from. In order for this to be a viable solution it needs at least some participation from BMT users to add their games via the interface and I'm just not getting that warm and fuzzy feeling right now.

My two options at the moment are:
1) Develop this system which may or may not be used by many people which would mean there would not be a lot of games to affiliate
2) Manually add only the affiliated games I want to my site as Jack and papillion have done

What to do?

EDIT: OPTION 3: JUST SUCK IT UP AND USE BFG'S AFFILIATE SYSTEM

Before talking to Amanda, I looked at her site and noticed she uses BFG's system to sell their games. I didn't originally have this as an option because when I looked into it months ago, their system didn't really have an api/feed to use... at least I couldn't find one at the time. I looked on their site today and noticed that they have a pretty nice system (XML/RSS feeds, developer kit thingy, etc). This option would be the path of least resistance for me, but completely defeats the notion of cutting out the middle man.

*grumble grumble*

[lennard]

How about something dead simple like a list of titles that meet some agreed upon criteria. Namely:

1) Affiliate gets at least 40%. Seriously, everybody gives up 70% to portals but won't give up 40% to build an affiliate chain.

2) Uses the BMTMicro cross product system so that if you list one of a companies titles then you get the cookie that says any subsequent sales (60-90 days, can't remember) gets you the follow on sales.

3) An easy way to browse titles and snag screens, text and affiliate codes.

I would supply titles into this system and use it to cherry pick titles for my site.

[hippocoder]

40% of 100% of the sales is better than 20% of 0% of the sales. People should give up 40% tbh.

The problem with BFG as an affiliate is that your customers dont go back to you, they go back to BFG, right?

[BantamCityGames]

Right. I agree people should give up 40% for affiliation, but I think when it comes down to it, most people are going to go with BFG as an affiliate service to get 70% (albeit of the net revenue) than the 40% directly from the developer.

Based on the low response count in this thread it seems too risky for me to spend much time on creating this system. I think I would end up spending way to much time chasing down and begging developers to add their games to the system and not enough time working on my own games.

hippo - I saw your other thread about starting a portal. Is it something along these lines or will you be going through the whole contractual process like the other 'big' portals do?

[Maupin]

Right. I agree people should give up 40% for affiliation, but I think when it comes down to it, most people are going to go with BFG as an affiliate service to get 70% (albeit of the net revenue) than the 40% directly from the developer.

Big Fish Games' 70% of net is just a nice way for them to inflate their 40% gross percentage given to affiliates. I don't know of another affiliate program that describes their percentage in terms of net income. I guess that number might persuade potential affiliates... but probably not as much as their huge library and ease of signing up.

I still like the idea of creating an XML feed of indie games that developers can submit to and affiliates can grab ... I might give it a go in my spare time. That's all it would be, though, a feed.

[hippocoder]

The problem with BFG is you lose the customer. I don't think that makes sense if you intend on any kind of repeat custom. For that you might as well be getting 100% of the sale.

[BantamCityGames]

I received an email today from Kevin Marshall of ByDomino.com who stated that he has created a system to incorporate the affiliate programs of Reflexive, BFG and Real (with the Reflexive part going away shortly). He said that he was told about this post from a Reflexive employee who frequents the boards. He registered but cannot post for 48 hours, so I am posting on his behalf. He mentioned he is working with GreenAppleGames.com (who is one of the more prominent Reflexive affiliates) to convert their site today.

I cannot speak to whether this is a good system as I haven't used it, but since I started this thread, I just wanted to let people know that there may be a fairly easy alternative to the Reflexive system, but I'll let him post with more details when his 48 hours is up.

[Promaginy]

I think that Reflexive's (and BFG's) XML system has demonstrated the power of getting the games in the hands of the affiliates.

Creating a new XML system that would be populated by the Developers and then be fed to registered affiliates would do the trick. It would be in the interest of the Developers to update the 'central XML' system in addition to their payment-processor since getting their game more easily distributed would lead to more sales.

I would be prepared to help since I have a now dying website that would benefit from a XML feed, but one that is indie-driven. I am not a coder, but would be prepared to help with hosting the data or doing some of the data entry.

A suggested, tongue-in-cheek domain name would be IndieFeed.xxx - an accurate name as far as XML feeds are concerned plus the expanded sales potential also will help feed the indies.