Wii profit down

[Richard Nunes]

Nintendo has reported less profit this quarter than they expected. There are a lot of alarmist news stories about the fall of Nintendo... really, they only made $700 million in profit instead of the $1.1 billion they predicted.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2...ofit-drop.html

Let the Wii bashing begin.

[PoV]

I would feel sorry for their lack of game diversity, but there's that "no home offices" clause. *shrugs*

[vjvj]

I remember some people (myself include) saying that the Wii might lose its legs faster than the other consoles do as a result of their business model.

Yes, they make money on each console sold, but you can only sell 1.5 million units/month for so long. Eventually your market dries up.

Yes, their 1st party has made a lot of money, but it's debatable how many monumental releases you can have per franchise, per generation. At New Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Galaxy 2, is 1st party already starting to thin out? Is there desire in the market for yet another Mario Kart/Smash Bros.? What can they bundle in Wii Sports 3 to make it sell?

I hope you don't see analysis like the above as "bashing"...

[jpoag]

I remember some people (myself include) saying that the Wii might lose its legs faster than the other consoles do as a result of their business model.

Yes, they make money on each console sold, but you can only sell 1.5 million units/month for so long. Eventually your market dries up.

Yes, their 1st party has made a lot of money, but it's debatable how many monumental releases you can have per franchise, per generation. At New Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Galaxy 2, is 1st party already starting to thin out? Is there desire in the market for yet another Mario Kart/Smash Bros.? What can they bundle in Wii Sports 3 to make it sell?

I hope you don't see analysis like the above as "bashing"...

I wouldn't mind seeing a Super Paper Mario 2.

Yeah, with the current WiiWare rules, Nintendo may have shot themselves in the foot. There's something to be said about a huge back catalogue of 3rd party games. It's covered in the book The Long Tail.

[zoombapup]

I was reading in one of my "positioning" books that the maker of the Garfield character decided to make him a pasta eating fat cat because he wanted a character that was charming, memorable but inherently not fashionable.

His thinking was that anything that becomes fashionable inevitably becomes unfashionable again.

Perhaps what ninty is seeing is the decline of the fashion to do "family" type stuff on consoles. After all, a fair proportion of Wii's probably only ever had wii-sports or wii-fit ran on them anyway (basically it became the "wii sports" machine).

But hey, that had a lot of profit from it. I suspect far more than the other two consoles.

[kevintrepanier]

I would feel sorry for their lack of game diversity, but there's that "no home offices" clause. *shrugs*

No... way! Didnt know that. I don't understand why they are so hard with third-party developers? This is a total marketing mystery to me.

[Acord]

Yup. Who knows - Nintendo has always done some odd stuff that didn't make financial sense. I'm presuming that the clause is in there to keep production quality high.

Back in the day, the NES(original) had a lot of issues with poor quality games. There was a lot of crap released on the system. The answer at the time was to allow publishers to create only 5 games each year.

Some publishers were allowed to weasel their way around this(Konami - Ultra, anyone?), and obviously the rules didn't apply to Nintendo itself.

In order to keep a lot of cheap crap from inundating the system, they've obviously developed this rule - stupid to say the least, considering that there are companies headquartered in closets in Japan just so they have a "real" business address for what is either a virtual business or a front.

I think the first rule was better. Limit indies to one or two games a year at first, and make exceptions for the ones that don't produce crap. Easy. But that makes too much logical sense for the big N I guess.

[zoombapup]

The trouble is that it didnt work. There are a lot of crap games on the wii. A lot of companies with offices just shovelled a lot of crap onto the platform.

[luggage]

I doubt stopping bedroom coders getting in on the act was anything to do with 'crap control'. Nintendo have been far more open with the Wii than normal so if anything they've opened development up to more people than before.

[Deva]

The novelty of the controller system likely wore off for many people. Plus I know some who bought a Wii primarily to try and get in shape with its fitness games, but just like the average person who joins a gym, after a month or two they lost interest, and now their Wii just sits collecting dust.

Not bashing, I don't own any of the next-gen consoles due to lack of time, and the fact that I already have enough games on the PC and last-gen consoles to keep me busy for years... if I had the years to spare.

[dadio]

Afaik, "crap control" is the official line, but in reality it`s more about Nintendo only giving out devkits/tools to those big & serious enough to be trusted not to use them for any nefarious purposes (such as the kits/tools/info aiding in firmware/security changes).
Nintendo have always had the strongest "anti-piracy" stance (even sticking with expensive carts for the extra security in the N64 period, when cds clearly had massive benefits over them).

Wii is well & truly swamped with crap for sure anyway, & it is a shame that Nintendo is reluctant to fully open up.

I have a feeling we might eventually see Microsoft jump in on the mobile gaming scene in a year or so with a dev/sales model similar to iPhone. If that happens, & those iPhone prices truly become standard, I can see the situation eventually forcing Nintendo`s hand - & them being more lenient with their rules.

As for the "Wii Profit Down" thing...
a chunk of that is to do with the Yen...
& the fact that Wii has (just about) reached saturation point (just about everyone has one at this stage!). This is bad news for Wii HW sales.
I do also feel that Nintendo have somewhat lost the plot in regards to their long term fans. SuperMarioGalaxy2 looks more like an expansion than a genuine Mario sequel (disappointing) & NewSuperMarioBrosWii looks identical (in style)to NSMBDS (makes the game feel stale/like old news even before I`ve laid my hands on it).
Nintendo should get their head out of the clouds quick...
I can see Sony clawing back some serious market share (at Nintendo`s expense) before this generation is out (especially now that PS3 has finally become somewhat reasonably priced & has motion control on the horizon & with the eventual, (slooow but) inevitable Bluray pickup).

No doubt Nintendo have a new Wii iteration on the table for next year to prop up the HW figures (with HD, MotionPlus & extra storage) - but it`s the games that will carry (or drop) them over the next 2-3 years.

The great tragedy is that Nintendo have a massive back catalogue of popular characters/games just begging for sequels (Starfox, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Kid Icarus etc) - but they seem to have been left behind & that dev time handed over to "ultra casual" games... & it`s a real shame for long term die-hard fans (such as myself).

[Qitsune]

I think the Wii was swamped with crap because:

• A lot of devs didn't know wtf they should do with the wiimote aside from bowling or shooting.
• A lot of devs in bigger companies weren't assed to do work on a console with "inferior" specs. I still see people dissing anyone who is not working on "next gen" games. So the people who ended up working on wii titles were often juniors and no one gave them much attention.
• It was seen as a family console and hard core gamers still snob the Wii. Everyone knows that families will buy anything, right? /sarcasm

I think this is changing, but not fast enough. However, it did help the few companies who made good games for the Wii to have little competition (Resident Evil and Raving Rabbids, I'm looking at you)

[luggage]

It was swamped with crap because they were selling a lot of Wii's and people wanted to cash in as quickly as possible. It was low specced so people could port their PS2 games easily.

Then some crap did really well and devs went "what's the point in spending 2 years working on a title when other devs are throwing stuff out that took a couple of months and making decent cash".

[jrjellybeans]

I'm more in line with a couple of other people who have stated that the sales that they previously had just couldn't last forever. Eventually, the market WILL dry up without any substantial changes in marketing, etc...

As for what their market is and the kinds of games they're making - look at the DS.

Isn't that still absolutely dominating the hand held industry? I'm actually not sure about the IPhone sales stats, but I'm pretty sure that it's killing the PSP and that is showing no signs of stopping.

And, I would bet the DS is selling NOT because of it's years ahead in the market, but because of it's games; and they are A LOT of casual games on the DS.

[cyrus_zuo]

There are 3 problems that I see Nintendo facing financially (in no particular order):

- The economy is down
- They have a really tough comparison versus last year (the 3 big games of last year, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Wii Fit were released March-May, the 3 bigs of this year, Resort, WiiFit Plus, Super Mario Bros. Wii, are releasing July-November > that leads to a large change in the timing of the money)
- The general gaming public has, mostly ignorantly, decided to hate Nintendo

I use the phrase 'mostly ignorantly' in the last bit because I don't believe that most people are playing the games that they are labeling as crap.

It's pretty easy to go to a place like metacritic and come up with a large list of games that scored over 80 this year with a pretty big range from more hard-core stuff like MadWorld to Nintendo IPs like Punch-Out to the 'more casual' Wii Sports Resort and WiiFit (and of course the more indie-like games NyxQuest + Bonsai Barber should be mentioned).

Whenever I hear someone saying a system, any system, is full of crap, I tend to want to know what they've played. Usually the list isn't as long as the complaint was, and I've never talked to anyone who actually spent any time playing the system recently. They were all dismissing games without actually having played them.

As a former reviewer, I find that pretty stunning, though I guess it is fairly common. I think I expect too much from 'core' gamers. (since playing something before having an opinion is too much to ask...not just watching someone play it, or reading a review of it, or playing it for 5 minutes...actually sitting down [or standing up with many Wii games] and playing the game)

However, I do think of my three items above, the third one may have the least impact, due to the disconnect between most Wii players and the fanboy websites.

[vjvj]

I'm more in line with a couple of other people who have stated that the sales that they previously had just couldn't last forever. Eventually, the market WILL dry up without any substantial changes in marketing, etc...

As for what their market is and the kinds of games they're making - look at the DS.

Isn't that still absolutely dominating the hand held industry? I'm actually not sure about the IPhone sales stats, but I'm pretty sure that it's killing the PSP and that is showing no signs of stopping.

And, I would bet the DS is selling NOT because of it's years ahead in the market, but because of it's games; and they are A LOT of casual games on the DS.

Yup, agreed. DS also has significantly better 3rd party support than the Wii does. I'm not really sure why this is true, though. For some reason, 3rd parties on the Wii are either going for the shovelware cash grab or are trying to find the "hardcore Wii market".

As for the PSP, I'm not even convinced that the DS and PSP are even in the same market anymore. PSP has over 50 million units worldwide (those are Wii-level numbers there); I don't care how much the DS is "winning", Sony should still be able to build a business off of that market share. They just need to figure out how to get those people to start buying games.

[Richard Nunes]

The one thing that Nintendo has on their side is that they're aimed at the children's market as well, give it a few years for the current group of kids to grow up a bit and the market will open up again. All of the kids growing out of Wii will move onto X-Box shortly.

[cyrus_zuo]

All of the kids growing out of Wii will move onto X-Box shortly.

I'm in the group that out-grows the X-box and moves onto the Wii and DS.

[DigitalDuffman]

There just aren't that many interesting games for the Wii. I play the heck out of Wii Sports Resort lately but I think that's the only game I bought all year. I don't typically download games on Wii either since many I like are also available on Xbox which has a far superior controller for old school type games and a much better online experience. I am really really looking forward to the new Super Mario Brothers game though so its not all bleak.

Overall the Wii still feels like a gimic gaming machine... caught on and was bought by a lot of non-gamers who enjoyed it for a while and then moved on. I'd like to see the number of games per Wii purchased... I'm betting that it's a lot less per system than it is for Xbox or Playstation.

[HairyTroll]

I'm in the group that out-grows the X-box and moves onto the Wii and DS.

I'm in that group too. I only play games that I can pick up, play for a few minutes and then put down. I'm done with games where I have to level-up for 17,000 hours before something interesting happens.

[JGOware]

I'm in that group too. I only play games that I can pick up, play for a few minutes and then put down. I'm done with games where I have to level-up for 17,000 hours before something interesting happens.

Amen to that brother.

[Applewood]

I think a lot of people have gotten fed up with not being able to control the bloody games.

I know from firsthand experience that the Wiimote is scarily accurate to the point of voodoo, especially with the new widget plumbed in. The problem is that programmers (me included) a) struggle to implement gesture control and b) don't get given enough time to perfect the first pass at said controls.

There's also a thing that because it's nintendo, a dribbling 3yr old is expected to be able to play, so games like table tennis end up being "controlled" by snapping the wrist at a vaguely correct time and no more.

I'm still happy with the bowling (in the first one) and the archery in the second one, and I consider those and the Wii itself a good investment. But I won't be buying anything else for it ever, unless it's a genuinely fun party game for christmas party etc. These aren't in short supply, but as to the other stuff - you can keep it.

[vjvj]

There's also a thing that because it's nintendo, a dribbling 3yr old is expected to be able to play, so games like table tennis end up being "controlled" by snapping the wrist at a vaguely correct time and no more.

Yeah. Most of the games basically boil down to triggering the accelerometer with the right timing; actual accelerometer data (aside from magnitude) is essentially ignored. You can play Wii Sports just fine by smacking yourself in the head with the Wii Remote, as long as your timing is right.

Overall, I do believe Nintendo made the right choice though as I don't think the mainstream market is really ready for "realistic" motion controls, yet. I've done work with motion control systems that actually support true, 1 to 1 tracking and the games were always too hard for non-hardcore gamers.

[cyrus_zuo]

I like the motion controls of the Wii, but the thing I'm most keen on is the more 'adult' offerings from Nintendo.

Brain Age and Wii Fit weren't made for kids. 7-year olds are not the ones playing these games. Those start the list for me of games that appeal to someone who wants to get more out of games than just entertainment, and they're just the beginning of the list.

Professor Layton was my favorite DS game last year, I'm not familiar with anything like it. My wife, who has between zero and no interest in games, played through the entire game with me, making sure I took it into the hospital when she delivered the twins (true story). The game is about pushing your brain and making you think, and sadly it hasn't caught on in the US like in Europe or Japan (I've always wondered if that didn't say something really bad about us Americans).

Other games that made my life feel more enriched for playing include Forever Blue, Wii Music, Wii Sports, Big Brain Academy Wii (my family loves playing and competing together on this one), and Wild Safari.

Nintendo also continues to deliver different games. Bonsai Barber is something both my kids, and my wife and I played this year (different profiles). That's a very different and unique game that generates discussion while playing, and not just about the game. I like that.

Other 'different' games that I played this year (that seem more common on Nintendo platforms than elsewhere) include: Rhythm Heaven (this game was supposed to make you feel how a conductor feels...it's definitely without peer), Rune Factory: Frontier (slow, but it has an original hook), Scribblenauts (which I absolutely adore), Lost Winds 2, Retro Game Challenge (a fun way to feel old), and I'm currently playing through A Boy and his Blob (which is beautifully drawn and has got it's own unique feel).

The Wii itself also been great for 'group' games (as noted by many people). This year we've loved Boom Blox Party (don't know how you couldn't), Raving Rabbids TV Party, Jungle Speed, Bomberman Blast, and Driift Mania. 8-player simultaneous single-console games are, as far as I know, non-existent elsewhere, but the last 3 on that list all do that.


Anyway, I'm good with enjoying games on every console. I have broad tastes and like lots of things on every console. I do, however, get a little frustrated when people slam a console. To those doing so, again, I'd ask if you are playing the games? How many from the list above have you played (I steered away from the more common Nintendo titles, and kept it almost entirely to games I played this year).

There are so many good games coming out I personally have a hard time keeping up on just the Wii games themselves, and I play a lot. (more than I should) (which is a statement that defines a problem...but not of too much playing, it's a problem of not enough games that are enriching my life beyond being simple entertainment)

I'd love to see more people with a better knowledge of the games, b/c I'm absolutely sure that if you played the full list of games I mentioned above that your opinion on the Wii would be a positive one. (I'm really totally, absolutely sure as well that no-one slamming the console has played much, if anything on that list...but I think you should ).

[tolik]

I bought around 5 games for Wii lately. Due to excellent marketing boxes and screenshots, they convinced me to buy that crap. I rate most of the games I've tried at 0. Actually we have great evenings sitting by TV and LOLing all night from the crap that various companies produce. The crap mostly comes from THQ and Hudson, they are great at marketing shit with awesome cover arts, catchy texts and screenshots. The smart thing they do they change release names across the countries so europeans wouldn't find reviews for these games on usa sites.

Personally I was disappointed in most of the wii games, including cool stuff like Lostwinds which is unplayable to the point of throwing controllers into window.

If it wouldn't be Animal Crossing, I'd bring Wii to office to "enjoy" some casual 8 player team building with games Russel (and James C. Smith) recommend

[Acord]

Punch out appealed to me vaguely, but they can forget $50 for a wii game

[tolik]

$50? pff, how about 50 EURO?

[Game Producer]

For casual gamers, Wii is an excellent choice - and might be the only reason to get old farts to play a console.

really, they only made $700 million in profit instead of the $1.1 billion they predicted.

They only made $700 million in profit?
(Man... I'd love to have problems like that.)

[Acord]

They only made $700 million in profit?
(Man... I'd love to have problems like that.)

The company actually makes a very high dollar amount per employee in profit too. So even if the business is down, it's down from something like each employee generating around a million in profit.