Indie Game Competition - $15k and possible publishing deals!

[2BeeGames]

It's that time of year again.
We're throwing the 2nd Indie Game Contest over at www.2beegames.com
Grand Prize is $10,000 and a publishing deal to console (deal is negotiated after the contest. You keep all rights to your games by entering )
Community favorite wins $5000
Hurry, the submission deadline is OCTOBER 15th.
A few developers from these forums made the top 10 last year! Who will make the cut this time?

What we're really looking for is great indie games who want to get on another platform, needs some help further enhancing the game, etc.

We may discuss publishing deals with some developers even without winning.
PC/MAC games, Flash, and XNA games and maybe some other types are accepted.
Any questions? Shoot me an email Tony@2beegames.com or PM.

Game demos and betas are fine.

[2BeeGames]

also we're still in discussions with a couple of deals from the last competition and should have something to announce soon on that front

[Scharlo]

And you still owe me over $250,000. I also found out I am not the only developer being scammed by Zoo Games, so this should be a warning to everyone here.

[JGOware]

And you still owe me over $250,000. I also found out I am not the only developer being scammed by Zoo Games, so this should be a warning to everyone here.

wow..that's quite the accusation. I think it would benefit the developers here for you to provide more detail. Thx.

[Game Producer]

http://www.2beegames.com/

"The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later."

I guess you are getting traffic

@Scharlo & JGOware: Yes, would be nice to hear more details if such accusations are made...

[2BeeGames]

And you still owe me over $250,000. I also found out I am not the only developer being scammed by Zoo Games, so this should be a warning to everyone here.

how do I owe you 250K? I have no idea who you are..

If you have something with Zoo Games (the company sponsoring this), then you should take it up with them via the correct legal channels, NOT me at 2BeeGames.

The prizes have been paid out for the last contest and we have signed 1 game already and are in talks about other games.

[2BeeGames]

http://www.2beegames.com/

I guess you are getting traffic

@Scharlo & JGOware: Yes, would be nice to hear more details if such accusations are made...

It seems to work fine now. Usually the server is reset for a few minutes every night.

And I have no idea what Scharlo is talking about. Seems like he has an issue with my parent company but 2BeeGames is independently run.

[Scharlo]

how do I owe you 250K? I have no idea who you are..

If you have something with Zoo Games (the company sponsoring this), then you should take it up with them via the correct legal channels, NOT me at 2BeeGames.

The prizes have been paid out for the last contest and we have signed 1 game already and are in talks about other games.

You didn't start this thread with 'I' but with 'We' so unless you are commonly referring to you as 'We', I assume you are representing the company and only company you can represent is Zoo Games because 2beegames is not a legal entity.

About you being run independently, I don't want to comment too much. Even your privacy policy starts with "Zoo Games logs IP addresses.." and terms of use say "This is an agreement between you and Zoo Games"
True independence!
As for more details about the money, I don't think this can help developers but warning to be careful who they work with certainly can.

[Nexic]

If you have something with Zoo Games (the company sponsoring this), then you should take it up with them via the correct legal channels, NOT me at 2BeeGames.

How stupid do you think we are? Your website says "© 2009 Zoo Games, Inc". 2BeeGames is a trading name of Zoo Games, therefore you are exactly the same company. If Zoo Games owes someone money then so do you.

[2BeeGames]

umm...okay...so this is the right forum to go after your "owed money"?

I personally do not know what that deal is with that.
And yes Zoo is the parent company funding 2Bee like I've said.

Anyway, shouldn't you be pursuing your funds (if you are even owed any) through the correct legal channels? Go find the appropriate information at www.zoogamesinc.com. You have complained about this the last time around too.

I was just posting to let you guys know about the contest since a few people from here did well in the last one.

I'm sure every publisher has their fair share of haters. Please deal with it over the appropriate channels as this has nothing to do with the 2BeeGames competition.

If it were related, sure I can entertain your questions but alas I cannot help you here.

[Nexic]

umm...okay...so this is the right forum to go after your "owed money"?

It's the right forum to point out potential scams. The fact that you've repeatedly lied about your company structure leads me to believe that you guys are indeed up to no good.

And yes Zoo is the parent company funding 2Bee like I've said.

No, it's not one company funding another company. 2BeeGames IS ZooGames.

[2BeeGames]

I understand you can be skeptical, but this is crapping all over us when we have done nothing wrong. We have done well on the last one and are working hard to make a great community.

I think the last competition worked out pretty well. Some games received sponsorships from other websites and companies, some are in talks for licensing and development deals with us and other companies.
It's not for everyone but it can be helpful to some.

Maybe it would be helpful if I brought about the origin of 2BeeGames.
We came up with 2BeeGames to find some great indie games to bring over to other platforms and build an indie game community. We've even changed it to be more friendly to developers by letting them run mochi ads and working to incorporate new features like ad revenue sharing (currently we have no ads) for other games in our next iteration. We have other great things in the works like gamejams, working with game design schools, etc.

While previously working at Zoo, me and a coworker came up with this idea because we were sick of working on kiddy games and wanted to bring something fresh. We got them to fund the idea for the site and competition by presenting it almost like a talent competition where we can find and offer deals to great indie games, and build a community that will give feedback, support and hopefully purchase those games down the line.
The name "2Bee" signifies the 2 founders and is also for the developers looking for their games "to be" made.

Yes it's NOT one just one company funding another one but its still a separate division. If they did not go for this idea, we would have split off and presented it to other companies.

We have our own office and team working on this so that is why I felt the need to state that we are separate. We are a separate division working to bring interesting indie games out rather than the more casual stuff Zoo does.
All we have to do is prove to them that this works by getting lots of visitors and find some great games.
It was not set up as a separate entity because I felt it would be better to save money on that end and to focus on what we needed to. Maybe we should have done it that way but its fine for now.
Our pixel art contest was recently sponsored by Gamersgate, which has nothing to do with Zoo.

Btw, you can find me and discuss the competition and website at various events. We have a booth at GDC, E3, GameX and also frequent the NY Gaming Meetup.
If you still have reservations, you can also ask the finalists from last year's competition. Some of them post here

I apologize for my tone but I was frustrated. Scharlo - Let me know if you need help getting in touch with someone on the legal end.

Thanks for the advice received via email. No need to get us both muddy in a needless debate. Feel free to PM or email me at Tony@2beegames.com as well guys.

One more thing, outside of the competition, you can always contact me if you're interesting in bringing your game to various platforms.

[Game Producer]

In Zoo Games website it says:

"Zoo Games is working with an exciting new partner, 2BeeGames.com"

Can you clarify what this means? If it's funding, and if there has been problems getting Zoo Games to pay funds, then naturally this raises suspicion. This text doesn't suggest that it's a new division of Zoo Games (which again makes Zoo Games look even more suspicious...)?

2BeeGames: It might indeed be a wise move to consider separating 2 Bee Games legally from Zoo.

With all that being said, would be cool to get some words from the previous winners/participants about the contest. Tony, if you can arrange somebody to speak up, I'm sure it could help clarify the situation.

[defanual]

Come on guys, ease up a little, he said the company is funded / owned by zoo but not run by them, that's not deceiving at all, it is possible that they are owned and funded by them but have no idea about cases like Scharlo's.

I agree some references might help at this point and I hope Scharlo does contact the correct channels (assuming he hasn't already) and gets the alleged monies owed to him in due course, please let us know how this goes. Also, assuming this claim is genuine thanks for making the rest of us aware of it.

Any other experiences, references or concerns regarding this would be welcomed.

[dannthr]

Dirty laundry... it just smells bad. Why do people have to throw around their dirty laundry when they're simply frustrated that things haven't gone their way--they do this and then they don't explain it whatsoever.

2Bee has been pretty responsive.

When probed, Scharlo has simply evaded explanation.

We're all so ready to throw stones when there's a target, but hell if we ask why...

Gee whiz!

[Pyabo]

I agree... Accusations that Zoo Games should be avoided needs to be backed up with explanations and facts. Otherwise it's pointless.

There's a big difference between lousy sales, bad business experiences, and outright scams. I *definitely* appreciate warnings like this, but I can't take it seriously with so little evidence.

[PoV]

Why do people have to throw around their dirty laundry when they're simply frustrated that things haven't gone their way--they do this and then they don't explain it whatsoever.

You have no idea the kind of ass-foolery that goes on behind the scenes in this business. Most of this is kept quiet and private, just 'cause. 2Bee and Zoo have kind-of walked in to this, with them putting on a public face here and all. Any stains on a family's name or honor have repercussions on the whole family.

[Game Producer]

You have no idea the kind of ass-foolery that goes on behind the scenes in this business.

I suppose that's why people would be interested to hear what exactly has happened. I would be, I've heard rumours and bit of discussion, and that's pretty much it.

Any stains on a family's name or honor have repercussions on the whole family.

Totally agree with this.

[dannthr]

Any stains on a family's name or honor have repercussions on the whole family.

Yeah, except that we're all extended family here. Let's take a chill pill. If anyone has a substantial grievance--a warning with weight--then come out with it, stand on your own two feet with your accusation.

But if you just say "Warning" without explanation, it's tantamount to childish name-calling.

Scharlo might as well be popping in on this thread to say "2Bee is a DOODY FACE! And smell like WEE WEE!"

And I can take his warning just about as seriously as if he'd actually done just that.

Frankly, it's borderline liable.

We ARE all family here, so let's just be frank and upfront, eh? That's what we call R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

[Scharlo]

I don't understand how would giving you more details make it fact. I stated that Zoo Games owes me over $250K. They ordered development of games and they avoiding payments for over a year now using variety of excuses from 'we can't pay until we get money from insurance' to multiple 'we will pay you ASAP' to latest one that is total avoidance. Old management left the company under interesting circumstances (http://markets.on.nytimes.com/resear...T&formType=8-K) and new one decided to thereat the problem the same way.
Of course I am taking legal actions and this is the main reason I don't want to give any more details but I feel I should warn the developer same way I would like to be warned before entering into agreement with them.

[princec]

Just sounds like every other "publisher" we've ever had the misfortune of doing "business" with. Except Komputerswiat, a Polish magazine, who actually paid. The only honest bunch we have encountered in all these years.

Cas

[nino_rajacic]

This explains a lot Scharlo, and unfortunately this is not first "publisher management switching = not paying to developer" sad story.

But I don't see how acusation on 2bee games can help anyone without just throwing it into this thread, and not argumenting. As a matter of fact 2bee was very honest and shared all of hes taugths frankly with us. I agree with Dan that we should treat eachother here with more respect and continue on building of positive spirit this community of indies always had. So, lot's of confusion could be avoided by saying all you can in first reply.

Thank you for the explantion and I hope that will not make big influence to this competition. Of course 2bee stated that premies from last competition were paid and that there is not problems with funding. My only concern is who is offering "major console publishing deal"? If that's Zoo Games, maybe winners should take in concern Scharlo's kind warning messages.

[dannthr]

I don't understand how would giving you more details make it fact. I stated that Zoo Games owes me over $250K. They ordered development of games and they avoiding payments for over a year now using variety of excuses from 'we can't pay until we get money from insurance' to multiple 'we will pay you ASAP' to latest one that is total avoidance. Old management left the company under interesting circumstances (http://markets.on.nytimes.com/resear...T&formType=8-K) and new one decided to thereat the problem the same way.
Of course I am taking legal actions and this is the main reason I don't want to give any more details but I feel I should warn the developer same way I would like to be warned before entering into agreement with them.

Thanks, man, see, this is all easy.

Knowing the circumstances surrounding your grievance helps us make a more informed choice.

I can appreciate the warning now, Scharlo, thank you.

[PoV]

This explains a lot Scharlo, and unfortunately this is not first "publisher management switching = not paying to developer" sad story.

We ARE all family here, so let's just be frank and upfront, eh? That's what we call R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Of course, and that's the issue at hand. Many of us want to foster an idealistic community of developers, but realize that's not everyone's intention. There's some bad blood ($250k+ worth), and for a change you get to actually hear about it. Your mileage may vary. We've critiqued the competition in the past, and the indie community is keeping a close eye.

There's a reason many developers have been gravitating towards app stores, consoles, and certain portals over others. You know those random biz and distribution contacts you get out of the blue? Yeah, they work out less often than most people would like. 10 years ago we as developers were powerless, and had to play that silly mingle+biz+publisher distribution game. Today, we have direct channels on all fronts in all markets. And today, developer owned IP in our hands has value. So as before, be aware of what rights you forfeit for a stab at a single $15k payout.

The lesson here is you should be scrutinizing everyone. This isn't kindergarten, this is business.

[papillon]

So as before, be aware of what rights you forfeit for a stab at a single $15k payout.

The lesson here is you should be scrutinizing everyone. This isn't kindergarten, this is business.

Big money contests are rough. Probably for the publishers as well, since they suddenly have to deal with completely unknown flaky people, but I can't speak for them as I'm not one! But winners tend to find that it's NOT as easy as 'be declared winner, be given check'. Sometimes things work out in the long run, sometimes they don't.

Contests are fun; don't pin all your hopes and dreams on one, no matter who's running it.

[dewitters]

I highly appreciate the heads-up from Scharlo. And to be honest I don't care what the guys at 2Bee know or don't know. If Zoo Games is the parent company and is funding the whole thing, it's obvious to me who's calling the shots, and who is going to benefit from it.

[JGOware]

I'd like to know who won last year's publishing award and who the publisher is. Thanks.

[PoV]

If Zoo Games is the parent company and is funding the whole thing, it's obvious to me who's calling the shots, and who is going to benefit from it.

That's not to say a company shouldn't benefit, but realize what this competition is. It's $15k (plus a GDC booth and some other marketing related and travel fees) to collect a portfolio of publishable IP. If just one works out, even after running a couple competitions, it pays for itself.

Zoo Games is a licensed entity that can publish on all the major platforms. How the full development of the projects fund themselves is up for question (see above). But it's a pretty easy and cheap way to scout for new ideas.

And hey, you could do it too. Get some office space, a big desk, a static IP, some venture capital, and fire out some licensee applications to the big 3. Congratulations, you're a publisher.

[Matuda]

Very interesting.

Hope that everything is OK now

[princec]

I highly appreciate the heads-up from Scharlo. And to be honest I don't care what the guys at 2Bee know or don't know. If Zoo Games is the parent company and is funding the whole thing, it's obvious to me who's calling the shots, and who is going to benefit from it.

Well, it looks like Scharlo's funding it all, indirectly Big props to Scharlo!

Cas