Darwinia - what am I missing?

**cliffski** · 01-22-2005 02:24 AM

Has anyone else tried the darwinia demo? This is a VERY high profile 'indie' title, so I was quite excited to try it. but...
I have no idea how to play it. The 'tutorial' as it is, is dire.
Am i missing something? is it really great when you work out how to play?
surely thats's not 'it'?

**Teeth** · 01-22-2005 02:45 AM

Been playing this this morning, this is what I've surmised:

First thing's first - the more you press 'h' the more help you get.

Now

Create a squad with the triangle gesture and go massacre the virus near the start. Make an engineer and it'll harvest up those souls and turn them into Darwinians. Be prompt as otherwise the souls will fly into the sky and be lost. Make an officer near the Incubator (you can tell what a building is by hovering the pointer over it for a few seconds), and make him point where you want the little guys to go - an officer can only point from one location to another, so the best way to do things is to make another officer at the other end and make him point somewhere else - kind of like ant trails. So you'll have a continuous trail of moving purple dots like a road. You'll get it when you do it.

You can only run four programs, so don't be afraid to terminate programs if you don't need them. You'll need an empty slot to create more officers.

e.g. enginers can be terminated and run from somewhere else to save time in making them go somewhere.

If you place a squad somewhere, and put the camera on the floor where they are, you can aim into the air first-person style. Select a squad and change their weapon to rockets with the rocket gesture, and you'll be able to fire rockets into the air - very handy.

**princec** · 01-22-2005 03:41 AM

A user interface.

Cas

**Reactor** · 01-22-2005 03:41 AM

It's an interesting game (although I'm not sure it's a good one, yet), but I found myself getting confused quickly. Their tutorial method really is... poor. It took me a really long time to work out how to play it, and silly things like having to hold ALT, tabbing through selections and then hitting CTRL-C to delete something just made learning that much worse.

With great hype comes great responsibility. Darwinia may have a high profile, but it didn't strike me as being worthy of it... at least not as far as control was concerned.

**cliffski** · 01-22-2005 04:49 AM

I noticed its not cheap either.

**Anthony Flack** · 01-22-2005 05:50 AM

Not cheap, all right.

But what I noticed is, there are different prices for different regions. So in the US, you get charged US$40. Which is pricey enough. But if you're in the UK, you get charged 30 pounds... which is US$56!

And those of us who aren't in the UK, US or Europe get charged in pounds as well! Which basically means that if you live in the world's wealthiest country, you get a discount. If you live in one of the world's smaller countries, where people don't earn the massive wages people in the US and UK do, you get royally screwed.

I don't know about you, but this pisses me off. And I haven't even tried out their stinkin' demo yet. Perhaps that isn't such a smart move?

**alfie** · 01-22-2005 06:02 AM

Bear in mind that those prices they are giving is for boxed copies and includes delivery. Maybe they will have different pricing points for the Digital only version...assuming they are doing one.

**cliffski** · 01-22-2005 07:20 AM

they said they are doing one but don't mention pricing, I assume they plan on doing a 'valve' and charging the same, which is a seriously bad ripoff. Even just deducting cost of goods would be welcome, not bothering to do that makes me feel like I'm being conned.
As for the currency thing:
in the UK Bose Quiet comfort headphones are £275.
I can order them in the US AND pay shipping and still pay less than £200.
We get badly ripped off here in the UK.

**Anthony Flack** · 01-22-2005 07:49 AM

Indeed you do. Perhaps that's why they feel they can get away with it - but this time around, the rest of the world gets ripped off with you.

And these guys are UK based, even.

I tells ya, this is no way to build goodwill.

**princec** · 01-22-2005 08:53 AM

I think you'll find that attempting to buy in USD from the UK will incur an extra 17.5% in VAT. Which brings it right up to par.

Cas

**Anthony Flack** · 01-22-2005 06:57 PM

Oh, and what about if you're in any other part of the world, eh?

I could almost buy the shipping cost argument... except that when I posted a playstation game from Japan to the UK it cost about $1.50.

But either way, if it were fair, the pricing would be transparent. And if it wishes to appear fair, the pricing should definitely be transparent.

**Gmicek** · 01-22-2005 11:15 PM

What should they do to make it fair?

**baegsi** · 01-23-2005 01:41 AM

Besides pricing, my first impression simply is: wow! Reminds me of the feeling when I first saw Tron and that's really impressive. Finally something unique only indies can provide.

**cliffski** · 01-23-2005 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by Gmicek

What should they do to make it fair?

I guess price things in dollars like 95% of downloadable games do. Otherwise its pretty hard for UK buyers not to feel that a UK company is stiffing them. They says its the same given the relative purchasing power, but this seems pretty lame. By that reckoning the game should be maybe $1 if you live in brazil?
I get the imrpession its a CD-only product anyway, which kinda defeats the whole benefit of selling online. If I wanted a CD I'd go to the shops and buy it.
Just my opinion

**Gmicek** · 01-23-2005 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by cliffski

I guess price things in dollars like 95% of downloadable games do. Otherwise its pretty hard for UK buyers not to feel that a UK company is stiffing them. They says its the same given the relative purchasing power, but this seems pretty lame.

Seems reasonable enough. Wasn't there a thread on here recently where people were complaining that by pricing the same across the board they were making less money from UK/EU sales?

From a business standpoint I can certainly see why they would do it, but from a customers point of view I'm just glad I don't have to pay in £'s, I really got jacked on the posters.

**princec** · 01-23-2005 03:53 AM

I've had a number of sales recently to the UK, and all in $, because everyone thinks that the $ exchange rate is so bad. Unfortunately these people fail to notice that you get charged VAT on the $ amount and not on the £/€ amounts. So they end up paying 30p more. We just can't win, and it's the EU's fault for that fuckwitted VAT decision.

Cas

**Fry Crayola** · 01-23-2005 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by cliffski

I get the imrpession its a CD-only product anyway, which kinda defeats the whole benefit of selling online. If I wanted a CD I'd go to the shops and buy it.
Just my opinion

From March 4th, you can. Just like Uplink, Darwinia's being released in stores too.

**impossible** · 01-23-2005 01:00 PM

Just played through the demo and I liked it. The tutorials aren't bad, but they're not great either. The interface isn't bad, but certain things are a little weird and could be streamlined. Like ALT then TAB then CTRL+C to delete a unit, while it does a good job of emulating the taskmanager in windows, is kind of overkill imho.

**Anthony Flack** · 01-23-2005 04:45 PM

I guess price things in dollars like 95% of downloadable games do. Otherwise its pretty hard for UK buyers not to feel that a UK company is stiffing them. They says its the same given the relative purchasing power, but this seems pretty lame. By that reckoning the game should be maybe $1 if you live in brazil?

In this case, if you're in Brazil, you'll be charged 30 pounds. Anywhere outside of the US or EU gets charged the most expensive price. At least that's what it looks like.

By the way, $40 plus 17.5% VAT = $47 dollars, not $56.

**Triple_Fox** · 01-23-2005 05:11 PM

I got annoyed, no, PISSED, when I realized the whole alt+tab and ctrl+C thing made it impossible to temporarily leave the game without using ctrl+alt+del and even then it would try to grab the input.

Game is kinda neat though. Like Cannon Fodder, but with a little more strategic planning needed.

**Martoon** · 01-23-2005 05:31 PM

I have to say I quite like this game from what I've seen in the demo. I agree that $40 might be a little pricey (and $56 for the UK is definitely high), but then again I like it more than many of the $50 AAA titles, and it has a little more to it than a lot of $20 indie titles. I would say that a fair price might be $30 (especially if it's boxed).

I also agree that the tutorial leaves a lot to be desired (I restarted the demo 3 times before I really figured out what's going on), but this is a pre-release demo, so hopefully they'll improve the tutorial by release. It's critical for a game this novel and outside-the-box to have a really clear tutorial.

Other than that, though, I think this game deserves some compliments. For one thing, it's nice to see something original (it's not another FPS, RTS, platformer, match 3, etc.). Both the gameplay and visuals are refreshing. After a few minutes of use, I found the interface to be very "high performance". I was whizzing around selecting things, shooting things, etc. pretty efficiently. I think the weak tutorial made out some of the controls to be more complicated than they are. For example, Alt-tabbing to select a unit and pressing Ctrl-C to delete a unit are completely seperate functions (you can Ctrl-C a unit no matter how it's selected, and Alt-tab is always used to switch selected units for any purpose). Basicly, holding the Alt key is used to access most of your interface functions.

I'm curious about the "hype" people have been referring to (it's a high-profile indie title, etc.). I hadn't actually heard of this game until tigsource mentioned it a couple days ago. Personally, I'm really looking forward to its release. I think original games like this are one of the things the indie industry is all about.

**Martoon** · 01-23-2005 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Triple_Fox

I got annoyed, no, PISSED, when I realized the whole alt+tab and ctrl+C thing made it impossible to temporarily leave the game without using ctrl+alt+del and even then it would try to grab the input.

I hadn't thought of the problem of overriding alt-tab (guess it never came up when I was playing). That is bad.

**Gmicek** · 01-23-2005 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Martoon

I'm curious about the "hype" people have been referring to (it's a high-profile indie title, etc.). I hadn't actually heard of this game until tigsource mentioned it a couple days ago. Personally, I'm really looking forward to its release. I think original games like this are one of the things the indie industry is all about.

Since it was announced in May '04 we've mentioned it about a dozen times. Edge Magazine had a pretty big feature on it. PC Gamer UK has featured it in some form or fashion in three seperate issues. It's also been on Slashdot, Eurogamer, Gamershell, Total Video Games, and others.

**Jay_Kyburz** · 01-23-2005 07:31 PM

I played it this morning, and it sure does look cool.

I think i would rather buttons than the gesture interface.

I worked I was supposed to making those little green guys and pointing them around, but i never worked out WHY?

What are you supposed to be doing?

**Anthony Flack** · 01-23-2005 07:34 PM

We discuss the game here: http://invisionfree.com/forums/world...0#entry1702624

and come to some rather similar conclusions.

**KNau** · 01-23-2005 08:53 PM

It goes to show that some people know how to work publicity.

I remember it being "news" when they first went into development, "news" when they might not be able to finish development, "news" when they decided to sell high priced posters to raise money and now it's "news" that the demo is finally available. Looks like they have the publicity machine figured out and good for them! Mental note: figure out all of Darwinia team's publicity tactics and copy 'em.

The only indie development to get more press for no product is "It Came From Hollywood"

**tentons** · 01-23-2005 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by KNau

It goes to show that some people know how to work publicity.

They have a game that isn't a "typical" indie game, which tends to be of more interest to the hardcore audience where there's more chatter and buzz. It's great how they appealed to the magazines etc because it suggests truth in my hypothesis that a "bigger" indie game could be wildly successful if handled with smarts.

Now if they'd fix the interface, which I view as friendly to us geeks but not to less development-oriented players, they could potentially see more sales.

**Gmicek** · 01-23-2005 10:06 PM

The way I see it, I'd rather have too much news than not enough. It is a little frustrating, however, that they basically blow off the web publications in favor of the print guys. But hey, if they can afford to do that then more power to 'em.

**Jim Buck** · 01-24-2005 12:06 AM

I loved the look of this game from the screenshots, so I had to download this one to give it a try. When I start it up, I immediately get a crash in atioglxx.dll. I have latest drivers/bios for my graphics chip.

**Diodor Bitan** · 01-24-2005 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Buck

I loved the look of this game from the screenshots, so I had to download this one to give it a try. When I start it up, I immediately get a crash in atioglxx.dll. I have latest drivers/bios for my graphics chip.

I got a crash too. Hopefully I'll play the Mac version.

It's like introversion is actively trying to break every single rule indie developers are supposed to follow - starting with hard controls, DirectX 9 requirement and all the way to the "last of the bedroom programmers" motto and black background on their homepage, and they get away with it.

Got to love this!

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