Perfect Shot

[jojoh]

I have created a simple applet game called Perfect Shot:



It is sort of a mix of pool and football Grin

Suggestions for improvements and general feedback welcome.

Any applet compatible browser is enough to PLAY!

[Junkyard Sam]

Open carefully. Something about that link caused my Firefox to lock up to the point I had to TaskManager out of it.

Same exact thing in IE. :/

Not sure if it was your applet or something else running on the page, but no luck here.

[CousinGilgamesh]

Yeah, on my macbook running firefox, the applet didn't load. I tried it in Safari and it crashed OSX (that hasn't happened too often...).

[HDL]

It made my screen melt in Internet Explorer and crashed Firefox.

[tolik]

we luv java

[jojoh]

Terribly sorry about that... It is very odd, since I have tested it on 3 machines and they all work fine. The only difference from other games I've done is that I use a 3rd pary lib to load and play ogg files. I have removed that and it should work now. Possibly need to empty cache first.

If you have/had problems with this, please let me know what OS, Java version, and browser you are using, so that I can try to test the problem first hand, and fix it. Any java logs would be great as well, if you can grab them.

[CousinGilgamesh]

Ok, it didn't crash my computer this time.

The game is not bad, but it was pretty boring until I found out you could actually charge up the shot. I spent a lot of time watching the ball slowly bounce over to the goal, thinking that this game is ridiculously under-paced. Also, the random teleportation of the posts threw me off. There was one time that I made a clear shot and then one of the posts teleported right in front of my ball.

[AlexWeldon]

To quote Peter Cook's Memoirs of a Miner...

The trouble with your game is that it lacks... everything.

More seriously, and less insultingly, it's not so terrible as a prototype for a game, but it does lack the "everything" that makes a game a game. Mostly, there's no technique or strategy... you just find the widest angle on the goal, and then it's just a matter of holding the button down and trying to release it when you're dead centre on the ball. It boils down to a mini-golf game where you're just trying to make the same straight shot over and over again. Like the mini-games from Fairway Solitaire, I guess. Which are pretty lame, even by mini-game standards.

Things that might make it more gamelike: lots of balls criss-crossing the screen at once, so you can choose which ones to go for. Maybe some worth bonus points. Maybe others that result in a lost life if you let them escape the screen. And of course, if you want it to be pool like, shooting one ball into another should have realistic collision physics, and you should get big bonus points for combos (i.e. shoot ball A, which hits ball B, which knocks ball C into the goal). Shots that go in off a post or a blocker should also score bonuses.

AI blockers. Right now, they just stand there... maybe make the near one follow your cue and the other one try to guard the near post, when there isn't a ball shooting on goal. Of course, when you do shoot, then they'll both go for the ball. It should be almost impossible to score with a single shot, but if you can get them both over near one post with one shot, you can set yourself up to drive a second shot in at the other post. Or something.

I guess there's a little more to the game on "Lives" mode, since you can try to save your rebounds. But they tend to rebound too quickly and at too sharp an angle. Maybe make them dribble off the screen more slowly so you have a decent chance at recovering them.

[Junkyard Sam]

1) I wouldn't have known you could charge up the shot except I read the two posts above.

2) As said above, I think it succeeds as a browser-based prototype. It's the kind of fun I would expect from an online browser game.

3) The presentation is reallllllly "programmer artish." Getting an artist to spice up your presentation would be the difference between looking like a prototype and a "real game."

4) I want some kind of defense. If I shoot and the ball gets bounced back --- I want my shooter to change to a paddle or something so I can bounce it back.

5) If the ball goes under the shooter -- the shooter's shadow shows as an opaque green over the ball. Breaks the illusion of shadow and just looks weird.

I played a couple games and I didn't notice the random teleportation?

So I think you have some neat gameplay that could be expanded a little, and you could benefit hugely with some proper art. And the UI makes the game look kinda cheap.

Collaborate with an artist! I enjoyed the little game. I wish I could play it more instead of the work I have ahead of me right now.

PS. Is the Games4j.com site yours? It REALLY needs some artist love and care. As a portal you need a presentation that makes people want to get in and stay. Look at blurst.com as an example! In fact, if you are designing the page yourself --- go SIMPLE rather than the fades and gradients on your logo. You'd be better off with a really simple design than the complex non-art look you have now... That logo suck in the corners of your ball game just makes it look bad.

Anyhow, I don't mean to sound harsh. You've just assembled a cool enough project I hate to see it ruined with bad art.

[jojoh]

Thanks for giving it another go CousinGilgamesh!

Ok, it didn't crash my computer this time.

The only 3rd party code that I used made browsers to crash... Big thanks for testing again! Really a shame that I had to take away the background music, it really added to the atmosphere.

The game is not bad, but it was pretty boring until I found out you could actually charge up the shot. I spent a lot of time watching the ball slowly bounce over to the goal, thinking that this game is ridiculously under-paced.

Hmmm yes, the instructions are hidden under the "instructions" section below the game and behind the "instructions" button in the ingame menu. I guess that is a good learning experience for me that instructions need to be displayed (probably as images) between the time the user decide to play and the time when the game starts. At least for browser based games. I didn't want to shove that into the users face, but can't see any other good solution. I probably should have known, since I probably behave in the same way. Suggestions welcome here as well.

Question: Would you think that a fixed power would be better? I guess that it is very seldom that one want's to hit softish.

Also, the random teleportation of the posts threw me off. There was one time that I made a clear shot and then one of the posts teleported right in front of my ball.

The posts ("defenders") should NOT be teleporting at all They are supposed to move in a smooth manner in a circular to an eight formed path. If you have a lot of background processes going on at the same time it might stutter a bit, but it should not teleport. Is it doing this for you regularly, or just in between? Is it only the defenders, or is it the ball as well? I have heard ppl reporting problems with some dual-core machines, and that time might jump forwards and backward because of that. What OS, java and mobo cpu do you have. One reason I show this is that I wanted to release the framework to open source, and I need to fix this before even thinking about that!

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

[andrew]

Just sits there and says "loadin" (sic) and never seems to actually load. Also the whole game screen flickers white when I scroll the browser window.

What OS, java and mobo cpu do you have

"Java is the most distressing thing to happen to computing since MS-DOS. — Alan Kay"

- andrew

[jojoh]

AI blockers. Right now, they just stand there...

I can definitely understand your critique if that is what is happening As mentioned in the previous post, the "defenders" are supposed to move in a smooth manner in front of the goal! If this isn't happening I would like to create a special version for you who don't see this with some more debug info, so that I can find out what is going wrong. Again OS, java, mobo and cpu info would be great, so that I possibly can see this first hand somewhere.

Thanks for trying! Once it works as it does on my computers, it shouldn't be as much of a painful experience

[AlexWeldon]

I can definitely understand your critique if that is what is happening As mentioned in the previous post, the "defenders" are supposed to move in a smooth manner in front of the goal! If this isn't happening I would like to create a special version for you who don't see this with some more debug info, so that I can find out what is going wrong. Again OS, java, mobo and cpu info would be great, so that I possibly can see this first hand somewhere.

Thanks for trying! Once it works as it does on my computers, it shouldn't be as much of a painful experience

Haha, yeah, sounds like you've got some bug fixing to do. Weird that they move smoothly on your machine, teleport randomly on Gilgamesh's, and sit there like, uh, posts on mine.

Let me know when you've got a debug version up and I'll see what I can tell you.

[jojoh]

1) I wouldn't have known you could charge up the shot except I read the two posts above.

OK, it is quite loud and clear, "hiding" that under instructions on the page and under instructions in the game is no good. Images just before game starts is the only way to go probably. The other Q, fixed force instead?

2) As said above, I think it succeeds as a browser-based prototype. It's the kind of fun I would expect from an online browser game.

Cool, thanks, that is what I was aiming for. The prototype part, yes, it would be fun to make a "full downloadable" game out of it, where I can use lots of gfx and 3d accelerators, but the game idea doesn't really stretch much further than a browser game. ideas are welcome though.

3) The presentation is reallllllly "programmer artish." Getting an artist to spice up your presentation would be the difference between looking like a prototype and a "real game."

Yes, it contains no prerendered gfx. I was thinking of tuning it before trying to get some artist to pimp it up, since a) very hard to get artists for a game that doesn't exist, and b) tuning might mean having to redo all the gfx. Only problem is to get a hold of an artist that wants to fix this game up. Anybody knows any volunteers? I didn't mention that, since I am not sure that getting an artist ever will happen...

4) I want some kind of defense. If I shoot and the ball gets bounced back --- I want my shooter to change to a paddle or something so I can bounce it back.

Yes, I think this is a very good idea. I have been thinking about just rotating the "queue" so that it becomes a paddle of sorts. Sounds good?

5) If the ball goes under the shooter -- the shooter's shadow shows as an opaque green over the ball. Breaks the illusion of shadow and just looks weird.

Good find! I guess if I implement the paddle idea, it will be fixed by itself, otherwise I will have to patch that up.

PS. Is the Games4j.com site yours? It REALLY needs some artist love and care. As a portal you need a presentation that makes people want to get in and stay. Look at blurst.com as an example! In fact, if you are designing the page yourself --- go SIMPLE rather than the fades and gradients on your logo. You'd be better off with a really simple design than the complex non-art look you have now... That logo suck in the corners of your ball game just makes it look bad.

Anyhow, I don't mean to sound harsh. You've just assembled a cool enough project I hate to see it ruined with bad art.

Yes, it is mine, but still only in Beta (need to put that tag in there again). I have so far only showed this site to game devs, and thought that the look wouldn't matter as much as functionality to that crowd Boy was I wrong about that! On the other hand I have gotten mostly positive feedback on the site itself. I personally think that the logo looks a lot better with the gradient than without, but then again I am a java developer, so what do I know

Anyhow, the blurst site and fully illustrated looks really great, and I will definitely look into that when I get closer to show the site to more than developers.

[jojoh]

Let me know when you've got a debug version up and I'll see what I can tell you.

Java lives up to its reputation of build once debug everywhere

I figured I should start with the easy stuff, and changed to double precision instead of float. Shouldn't really matter, but since Apple creates its own version of java, I have heard that this stuff can blow up on Macs. Still not sure what environment games with probs are running in though, so hard to tell.

I have some idea where to poke around, but if this will fix it, I won't have to.

Let me know if anybody experiences any difference now.

[AlexWeldon]

Yes, it is mine, but still only in Beta (need to put that tag in there again). I have so far only showed this site to game devs, and thought that the look wouldn't matter as much as functionality to that crowd Boy was I wrong about that! On the other hand I have gotten mostly positive feedback on the site itself. I personally think that the logo looks a lot better with the gradient than without, but then again I am a java developer, so what do I know

Anyhow, the blurst site and fully illustrated looks really great, and I will definitely look into that when I get closer to show the site to more than developers.

Actually, just as far as logo goes, I prefer yours to that thing in the upper left of Blurst's site, which is an abomination, a distraction and not a logo at all. The rest of their site is much better than yours, though.

I think mostly you just have to get rid of the illustrated background. There shouldn't be a lot of "stuff" in a design that isn't content.

A major mistake made by non-designers trying to design things is to try to fill up the page because they don't understand how important negative space is. If you've put all your content into the design and there are large empty areas that look "unfinished," it's not that you need more stuff to fill them... you just need to organize the space better.

Most good designers actually try to maximize the amount of whitespace they have to play with, and get really annoyed when clients tell them to make stuff bigger and/or add more stuff to fill their carefully-managed negative spaces.

P.S. If I went to buy a pool cue and there were many people in the store, I might have to wait in a queue at the checkout. Not the other way around.

[HDL]

It worked fine for me when I tried it after the first fix. Unfortunately it wasn't fun.

My stick piece felt big clumsy, I got bored waiting for the ball to roll back and forth and it just wasn't fun at all. I think I managed to get one goal out of maybe 10 shots before I got bored and closed the window off.

There's a number of spelling mistakes. I did manage to find the instructions and was aware I could charge the cue.

[jojoh]

My stick piece felt big clumsy, I got bored waiting for the ball to roll back and forth and it just wasn't fun at all. I think I managed to get one goal out of maybe 10 shots before I got bored and closed the window off.

Did you use kbd or mouse? Mouse is way better, but I should maybe make the cue lighter when using kbd. Problem is that it becomes unprecise then. Que has really no weight using mouse, so go for that if you can. (Thx Alex. Note to self, never rely on spell checkers...)(Coders care bout looks AND knows how to spell... What is happening to the world )

If you really get bored waiting for the ball to roll back and forth, then you are probably not holding down the "shoot button" long enough. It should take less than a sec (more like 0.5sec) for the ball to zap across the field after you hit it.

[jojoh]

There's a number of spelling mistakes.

Help me out here. English is not my native tongue. I will fix it.

[jojoh]

I added an ingame button that makes it possible to change how to shoot. "Power up" is the way it used to be, so that the longer the mouse button is pressed, the harder the shot will be. "Direct shot" will always shoot with the same force, and will do so as soon as the mouse button is pressed.

I will probably not leave that toggle button in the game (that is why it is so ugly), so let me know which version you prefer.

[HDL]

Help me out here. English is not my native tongue. I will fix it.

The cue/queue one was the big one (but that's been pointed out). Loadin when the screen first shows up should have a g at the end. Controlls has one l not two. In the text underneath it should be 'use' not user. Mousebutton looks to me as if it should be two words, or have a hyphen.

I did play it again this morning and it seemed to play a bit faster than it was yesterday. I actually managed to get a few goals. I was playing with the mouse both times.

[Bad Sector]

The game is nice, but doesn't remain interesting for long (its feels the same all the time). I had none of the problems mentioned above though.

[oNyx]

Add:

<param name="separate_jvm" value="true">

That seems to improve about everything quite a lot (performance, reloading, cert dialogs, etc). Just ask kappa.

[jojoh]

I did play it again this morning and it seemed to play a bit faster than it was yesterday. I actually managed to get a few goals. I was playing with the mouse both times.

Thanks HDL for the help, I hope I fixed all the typos. I did change the way to shoot so that it by default shoots with a fixed force. Before it was building up force the longer you hold down the mouse button. I guess that this way is easier to use, even though I prefer the other way (probably since that is the way I always played it...)

Could you explain more what you mean with "stick piece felt big clumsy". I think that the challenge in a game should not be to control it, so I really want that part to work fine, if I can fix it.

[jojoh]

Add:

<param name="separate_jvm" value="true">

That seems to improve about everything quite a lot (performance, reloading, cert dialogs, etc). Just ask kappa.

Thanks oNyx! That was a very easy fix. I knew about a problem using singleton in the game (since it originally was made for webstart). Looks like that one line will fix that problem for me. Great!

[jojoh]

I changed the way you shoot, and used a compromise of the two versions. If you just press and release the mouse button, you shoot with a decent power, but if you press and hold for a while you build up more power for a quite hard shot. I hope this will work well for everybody.

4) I want some kind of defense. If I shoot and the ball gets bounced back --- I want my shooter to change to a paddle or something so I can bounce it back.

5) If the ball goes under the shooter -- the shooter's shadow shows as an opaque green over the ball. Breaks the illusion of shadow and just looks weird.

I made it so that the you can use the que to bounce the ball if it is bouncing back to you. That should take care of the strange shadow thing as well.

[J.PM]

Didnt crash on my computer. Interesting game, but a bit simple to play it constantly.

[CousinGilgamesh]

I like the faster pace and the increased initial strength of the cue, but there are still some other serious problems.

Your restart button uses keydown instead of key pressed, which means that if you hold the 'r' key down for anything more than a fraction of a second, it resets more than once, and the sound effect is played repeatedly. This is sloppy and should be easily fixable.

Also, I'm noticing serious lag when I start moving the curser around. Everything is fine when I hold the cursor still, and also when I hold down the mouse button and move the cursor around, but if I just move the cursor around, everything starts slowing down a lot.

You should fix these things.

[puddinlover]

I found this enjoyable but it only held my attention for about 5min