How to diversify?

[BongPig]

We were planning to stay with the shooter genre ourselves, but ended up drifting into a different genre for our latest title. It wasnt deliberate.
Reading the various posts lately have gotten me a bit worried. What do we do with a game thats not a shooter? Make a new site? Sell it at pompomgames.com even though its nothing like the other two games? Offer it to a suitable 3rd party website/portal/affiliate?

Basically, what would any of you do if a good idea hit you on the head that wasnt in line with your other titles?
Im sure ignoring it isnt an option, assuming the idea is a very good one.
Our game is 90% finished, and ive no idea what to do with it once its done.... apart from play it, of course. ( its alot of fun, in my opinion )

Also, while im asking the questions, this current title is much more casual on the surface, so its probably going to appeal to a more casual croud initially. ( Under the surface its probably more hardcore that our other two! )
However it uses the same engine as Mutant Storm so its loaded with 3d models, particles and alpha effects. It looks really nice, but again im worried we might me hurting our potential custom.
It wasnt planned this way... the game started out as a missile command clone!

Is it really true that your average casual gamer has a crappy PC that wont run anything remotely hi-tech?

[princec]

No, it's not true at all, according to my logtastic logs.

Puppygames is going to diversify but I myself won't be doing the diversification. I am in the process of figuring out how to turn Puppygames into the fabled Indie Co-op and relinquishing direct control of it. We will be diversifying into Killer Puppy, Happy Puppy, and Clever Puppy; Killer Puppy's the shooters, and I'll be sticking with the genre for a while because I like it. One thing we aren't going to cater for specifically is portals though. There will be no portal games from Puppygames.

Cas

[cliffski]

Clever puppy is a great name.

[Nexic]

Well it really depends how diverse it is from your other titles. For example I think a site selling shooters could do well selling something like Riccochet. Mainly because Riccochet feels and looks much like a shooter. Can you say what genre it now best fits into?

[PoV]

Action/Arcade. That'd encompas shmups and breakout/arkanoid clones just fine. Though Cas's "Killer Puppy" would nicely capture even more, if he was to dive into Murder Mystery fiction games or what have you.

Also, ya may want to reconsider the "Happy Puppy" name, for what should be an obvious reason. Friendly Puppy or Family Puppy might be some okay unused alternatives, assuming we're talking E rating, not T.

[Anthony Flack]

It's only your 3rd game. You don't have to define yourselves as shooters only.

Put it up on your site and see what happens. What have you got to lose?

[princec]

Aye, no point diversifying when there's only 3 titles to choose from anyway! I wasn't planning any changes until there were at least 6 shooters under me belt. (BTW, "Happy Puppy" may be the name of some other website but I'm simply talking about segregating the existing puppygames.net site into sub-sections, navigable from the front page - not whole new domains or trademarks, just page headings)

Cas

[oNyx]

People who like shooters also play other games. If it's also action/arcade stuff with lots of explosions and maybe 75% of your customers would also like it... no big deal. Just put it on the site. It's complementary. A nice cross promoting opportunity.

I mean it's not like putting kid save jump'n'runs and hentai games on the same site

[BongPig]

O, for sure its going up on our site no matter what.
Thats gonna be our starting point.

Im just trying to stay ahead of the game for once. Trying to anticipate any hurdles, rather then waiting for shit to hit the fan before thinking I need to change something!

As for genre. Ummm. I honestly dont have a clue.
Certainly not like our current games hence my *slight* concern. We may only have 2 games but everything from our logo, to our website, to our games have this aggressive edge. Not exactly the company cute fluffy games would keep.

My main issue is this hardware thing. Would we be making a mistake selling an accessable casual style game dressed up in graphics that are nice, but need a reasonable machine? By reasonable im talking P2-600+ and a GeForce1+.

[princec]

The vast majority of logs I get these days are GF1 or better. CPU speed is largely irrelevant to you I expect.

Cas

[oNyx]

>P2-600

IIRC there shouldn't be a P2 with 600mhz.

My machine is a K7 500 with a gf2mx... and that thing is over 5 (five) years old. So 600-800mhz isn't a big deal. If you take the time into account you're actually asking for a less powerfull machine (compared to MS/ST). So don't worry. It's not done yet and once it's done it's at the begining of it's life cycle.

[BongPig]

good point oNyx. We are pretty much asking for the same specs as Tripper needed. Considering Tripper is 4+ years old now, our minimum specs are pretty low.

Thanks for the info Cas.

[Anthony Flack]

I'm getting more and more intrigued. There's nothing I like better than to hear a developer say they started making something and it mutated and now they don't know what genre it is. That's some real game making, yeah!

It sounds like you're fretting a bit over whether it will be suitable for the casual market or not, but I wonder, do you think it's unsuitable to your existing fan base? It may well be that you have a game that can capitalise on the casual end of the market, but if your fans are going to like it too, and that's who it was originally meant for, then the casual players are just a bonus.

And without seeing the game, I'm still thinking that your fans probably WILL like it, because it sounds like YOU like it.

[BongPig]

Ok, so really im worrying about nothing. The specs are fine and it should appeal to our regulars. The website could do with some toning down as well.

Is there any advice as to whether using openGL only could hurt us? Would direct3d give us less problems. I know Cas has spoken of this before. What was the conclusion?

[princec]

The conclusion was that 35% of Windows users can't run the game. My own conclusion was that that 35% aren't looking for my kind of game anyway (as of the 100 or so requests for assistance I've dealt with, not one has bought any of our games).

<edit>And the other half of the conclusion was absolutely no-one has any stats on D3D. About 25% of the D3D games I try fail in some way.

Cas

[alfie]

Basically, what would any of you do if a good idea hit you on the head that wasnt in line with your other titles?
Im sure ignoring it isnt an option, assuming the idea is a very good one.
Our game is 90% finished, and ive no idea what to do with it once its done.... apart from play it, of course. ( its alot of fun, in my opinion )

If I where in your position, bearing in mind the history with Mutant Storm and Space Tripper, I would contact PC Gamer and let them do an Exclusive review and interview before the game is launched on your website. Co-ordinate the launch for the day before the magazine with review/interview is published.

The effect of doing this could also increase exposure/sales of MS and Space Tripper because it could give you another bite of the cherry with PC Gamer readers.

From the PC gamer point of view I think they would be interested as it makes a good story. You have used the MS engine for something that is novel and departure from your speciality because you ended up with an idea almost by accident. The game as a casual surface but with some hardcore depth, which sounds like a great game to introduce more people to gaming...sounds ideal for PC gamer readers who want to get their non playing family and friends into games.

[luggage]

Is there any advice as to whether using openGL only could hurt us? Would direct3d give us less problems. I know Cas has spoken of this before. What was the conclusion?

Not sure there was a definate conclusion. If you're going to do a Mac version then it may be worth considering using OpenGL for the PC as well to save a bit of work. Even then that's presuming you can't use OpenGL for Mac and D3D for windows.

I think 35% of Windows users is a lot of potential customers who can't run the game. If a demo doesn't work, odds are they'll just move onto the next game and not even try to seek support. Use the lowest version of D3D you can get away with too - 8.1 seems about the highest you can go to at the moment IIRC.

Cas: You say 25% of Direct3D stuff you try doesn't work - are we talking poor coding here or poor drivers? Does 25% still hold true when you're talking about commercial games? Or just demos that have been written for one guys home machine and he's not given any thought to compatibility? 25% seems alarmingly high. We've not had one person ask for tech support on getting Party Bowling to run. Hope that isn't because they've all just moved onto another demo.

[Anthony Flack]

Well your game not working on 25% of computers is very different from 25% of games not working on your computer.

[princec]

Very true. Mostly I suspect it's poor coding, as I always have reasonably up-to-date drivers. But as no-one knows whether their game is working reliably or not because no-one collects any logs, it's just another big unknown variable.

I'm happy to lose the 35% of potential customers, as I've pretty much grokked that the 35% of customers without any drivers are far worse conversion prospects for my kinds of games - and I think the same is true of BongPig. I'm sure I lose a few sales here and there but frankly for the vast amount of extra effort DirectX would cost me it's irrelevant.

Cas

[Nexic]

Well, the 35% of Windows users you lose is probably made up for by the extra Linux and Mac users you get.

[Nexic]

Btw im pretty excited about seeing this new game.

[princec]

Well, the 35% of Windows users you lose is probably made up for by the extra Linux and Mac users you get.

I think so, yes, but there's always someone ready to chip in with the incredibly naive suggestion "but if you just abstract your renderer away into a library you can just make one version that uses D3D and one that uses OpenGL".

Cas

[BongPig]

From our perspective, we had to get Mutant Storm working under directX for the Xbox version. Seeing as we're always using virtually the same engine, I would guess it wouldnt be as huge a hassle for us to use both GL & DX. However, im sure our coder would have something to say about that!

Please dont get excited. Im paranoid enough as it is! After producing two excellent games as far as im concerned, and watching them succeed in every aspect EXCEPT sales numbers, I dont quite have the confidence I used to.
This industry has confused the hell out of me, and now im left feeling less experienced at 33 then I did at 23! I find myself disagreeing with general views on games more and more. So it stands to reason that my likes and dislikes (gaming wise) dont reflect the general opinion. Therefore, if we keep making games *I* like, we're going to have more and more trouble finding the market to sell these games.
Im not being negative. Far from it. Just waking up to some facts, so I can move on with my life in a productive way.

[princec]

The older we get, the more our tastes solidify. I've noticed a remarkable tendency which happens at age 50, when people almost suddenly come up against a brick wall for new concepts. They simply refuse to accept anything new. You might think I'm being ageist here but ageism is prejudiced; this is based on observation and I fully expect myself to go this way as well - I can already feel it happening. I've already decided I really like shooters more than anything else. It's all downhill from here

Something good's got to come from it though which is that as you cater more and more for older audiences you can get more and more niche in what they like.

Cas

[Anthony Flack]

I guess by the time you're 50 you should have a fairly good idea about what you like. Chances are, there's enough of that sort of thing around to keep you occupied without bothering with the stuff that experience has shown you probably won't like.

I know I feel more that way these days. Time is short, and 90% of everything is crap. At the first sign that something might be crap, I'll stop wasting my time on it. Usually the really good stuff hits you with its terrificness right from the getgo, anyway.

Bongpig - if you disagree with most general views on games, it is a clear indication that everyone is wrong and they need you to lead by example! But since you still have to make a living somehow... best of luck.

[Nexic]

Except sales huh? I always assumed you were raking in the cash! I must admit if I made something as good as Mutant Storm and wasn't making a 1000s a month off of it I'd be very disppointed.

Though I know what you mean about being confused. What I like is certainly not what the buyers like most of the time. I mean Alien Flux scored highly from its Game Tunnel review but as we know all too well it doesnt make mega bucks.

I think the trick is to keep the games coming in rapid sucession to keep your core users from running away, that way you can build your niche and won't need much else to keep you going. But making several quality titles a year is hard. So far after 1 year of being an indie I've made four games, and 3 of them were total rubbish, and the other isnt anything special. I suppose we have to find the correct balance between development time and quality.

[princec]

Flux, MS, ST - all great reviews everywhere - from game reviewers, who are all invariably in their 30s, grew up with the nascent games industry, and gradually all settled into knowing what they like, as Anthony says, "from the getgo". Where we have failed is reaching lots more of these sorts of people with a message that helps relieve them of the terrible burden of credit they also possess.

Cas

[Anthony Flack]

But I think you're correct in assuming that lots more of these people are out there, that they also believe that games in general have gone all wrong, and would hate for Pompom and Puppygames to shut up shop before they even found out they existed...

[princec]

The trick is just to hang in there.
For years.

Cas

[luggage]

think so, yes, but there's always someone ready to chip in with the incredibly naive suggestion "but if you just abstract your renderer away into a library you can just make one version that uses D3D and one that uses OpenGL".

What's naive about that? It reads a bit like someone who says that doesn't really know what's involved and actually it can't be done.