Reply With Quotewow, I forgot about this game. Looking good.
How many here remember or played? Its a classic, our whole family used to play.
RetroRunner
Hi dudes,
Here's my remake of loderunner. I've spent 6 years on it, so it's pretty tidy, the goal was to make the best LR, i.e. alot better than the XLBA version. Have I succeeded? You decide!
download page
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jmqznd3eajz
website
http://www.geocities.com/meemoe_uk/
Hope there's no bugs.
Enjoy!
Feedback appreciated!
Last edited by meemoe_uk; 03-30-2009 at 06:05 PM.
wow, I forgot about this game. Looking good.
How many here remember or played? Its a classic, our whole family used to play.
Well, the visuals are certainly retro. If the action is faithful... it sort of invites the question: why not just play the original?
Loved this game on the Apple 2e, so I guess that answers that question.
It has a 1992 Windows look to it. And I can't say I mean that as a compliment... I think a few years earlier (8bit) retro version of Lode Runner would look much, much better.
Have you played the Super Granny series? They "casualized" Lode Runner and I have to say they're quite fun to play through. Especially if you like cats.
"I've spent 6 years on it.."
Then you deserve honest feedback. Get an artist on board quickly and redo the graphics.
Brings back memories... back on the C64... Even worked on an Amiga port - had it all up and running but Broderbund decided to put a stop on it - they never developed it on the Amiga as far as I recall... Loved the game...
and I have agree with JGOware - a minor art update would have been nice - just a touch too retro for my liking...
>why not just play the original?
My version's better!
>Graphics
What with megaman 9 leading a new wave of retro graphics, I think I'll leave them as they are. They are good enough not to detract from the gameplay. I'd rather spend time improving the gameplay.
If anything, the most likely revision of graphics will be the shift to multi colour actors. Then the graphics will look like benefactor - amiga.
>Super granny
Yes I played it along with many other LR games. I was searching for a version of LR better than retrorunner. I wasn't impressed with SG, and I didn't find one.
Seems like you lot are too busy to play it. I'm looking for a indie game review site, but game tunnel will be reluctant to review this because it's the free\shareware version.
I can understand the focus on gameplay - but at the same time, presentation IS important, as it is a major factor in getting people to try it out. Presentation doesn't mean you need advanced graphics technologies, but it does mean that things need to look nice, neat and coherent, even if you're going for a simpler retro look (which I know a lot of people like).Originally Posted by meemoe_uk
If you want more people to try it out and get hooked on your great gameplay, I think you'd be wise to see if you can tidy up the visuals - even if it isn't strictly needed from a gameplay point of view.
Also, one thing that is often forgotten when it comes to retro graphics, is that back in the old days, games was both played and developed on crappy TVs and CRTs - which would produce blurring and bleeding, which the artists of those days took advantage of. You don't get that these days, so retro art and emulated games tend to look worse these days then they used to (at least IMO)
I've been playing around with a realtime filter attempting to reproduce the old TV look, and this image shows an example of what I mean by the blur and bleed (this is a screenshot from the HeroQuest game on AtariST, showing emulator screenshot to the left, and my TV filter to the right)
(more info here should anyone care)
So I think it is important to do a nice presentation, especially when going for the retro look, as I believe it can actually make the look even harder to get right...
Last edited by Mattias Gustavsson; 03-25-2009 at 03:03 AM.
"The Strangler" - My recent point-and-click adventure
www.mattiasgustavsson.com - My blog on games and game development
www.pixieuniversity.com - My Software 2D Game Engine
>6 years is a typo, right ? Surely you mean days ?
My minimalist graphics approach is going to decieve a few, especially 'screenshot reviewers'. The idea that a developer will spend 6 years ( part time ) on a project and it not have impressive graphics is an alien concept these days. The decision process used many times during dev which'as led to this is simple: 'should I now spend a month working on the gfx? -> No! Instead spend it on refining the gameplay'.
Even if it's not something you'd do, be glad of it. You can use RR to measure how well a good game fares without the gfx to back it.
RR does contain the 'mistake' where I spent far too long doing a variety of end of level gfx. So complete a few levels and you'll get your icecream.
Good principle and nice blur effect Matt. I wouldn't invest time doing one myself, but if it was easy and free to implement someone elses, I could go for it.
I decided to actually play it. The colours hurt my eyes, my character got stuck upon touching the first sign. I understand you're trying to replicate the retro experience, but you've gone too far. If a remake doesn't at least improve on something then I have to ask, what's the point? We have emulators. Seems like a terrible waste of 6 years.
If you had of answered 'yes' you would probably convince 10x to 100x more people to play this game. As it stands you'd be lucky to get anyone to play it for more than 5 minutes.should I now spend a month working on the gfx? -> No! Instead spend it on refining the gameplay
No, it's really not.My version's better!
Last edited by Nexic; 03-25-2009 at 04:52 AM.
I just downloaded this.
- There is a spelling mistake in the start up screen.
- The menu has a continue option despite their being no previous game
- In-game, the dialog box flickers
- Looks to not be frame-locked in anyway. Geezer crossed the screen in seconds
At that point I deleted the game. This is actually one of the poorest loderunner rips I've seen. You need at least another 6 years on this one, sorry.
I can deal with the other probs but this
>Geezer crossed the screen in seconds
Can you be more specific?
>The colours hurt my eyes,
Upon loading most apps I need to adjust the media things, text size, brightness, sound volume etc. Did the volume hurt your ears BTW? Feel free to turn down the brightness and contrast on your monitor.
>frame locking
At 1st I was worrying vertical tearing would spoil the game, so it was in. But after a while I realised it didn't matter to the gameplay. In fact taking it out improves it because the game can deal with lag better. Most gamers I know tick the 'no Vsynch' box when given the option.
Last edited by meemoe_uk; 03-25-2009 at 05:36 AM.
>my character got stuck upon touching the first sign.
Mario, zelda, final fantasy and hundreds of other games 'get stuck' when read signs\talk text pops up. Can you figure out why?
I've tried it too now, and I must say that this is NOT a "good game without gfx to back it". It's a poor game with poor gfx - it just feels awkward and clunky. "Not nearly finished yet" sums it up pretty well.
The comments made by people here are not about you - they are about your game. You can decide to take them in, or decide to ignore them, but it is rude to argue with people spending their time helping you out!
I release all my sourcecode/technology to public domain, for what it's worth. So yeah, if you have use for it, help yourself to it.
>but it is rude to argue with people spending their time helping you out!
I'm a noob to this forum. I was suprised when I was welcomed on board with this...
>6 years is a typo, right ?
>Surely you mean days ?
I don't know what's considered rude or what isn't here, but I'm willing to adjust my own calibration to fit in with you lot.
OK, new rule based on applewood example : unprovoked slighting unobjective insults on peoples games is ok.
Would you spec which sentance I made that constituted an insult, so I know not to do it again?
[edit]
hang on !
rude to argue with people spending their time helping you out! ???
It's called talking and rationalising. Arguing is also the technically word correct, but the word has been stimatised with the the pattern of idiots yelling and threatening violence to each other. That's not what I want to do here. I make no excuse for 'arguing' in the first definition.
Last edited by meemoe_uk; 03-25-2009 at 05:30 AM.
After reading the sign (the popup was gone) I could no longer move.
No amount of monitor adjustment is going to fix your terrible colour scheme.
Clearly you think I'm stupid. Funny that, considering I've developed 12 commercial titles (that made money) in the time it took you to cobble together this monstrosity. If I was going to do a loderunner clone it would be finished in 2 weeks, would look better, would play better and I could guarantee that 100x more people would play it.
Last edited by Nexic; 03-25-2009 at 07:37 AM.
Why? So you can argue with that as well?
I'll give you this free advice though: Write the following down and place near your computer "Thank you for taking the time to comment on my game". That's all you need to write, really.
I haven't played his game yet and I can understand being honest because I pride myself in being a straight shooter, but some of you guy's comments are a bit too far. You are bordering on ass hole territory. There is a difference between being honest and being mean.
I've always perceived these forums as a place where people post polished games for honest feedback, accepting it gracefully. If someone comes on with something which looks sub-par, with high claims of how good it is, and then throws comments back at people - well, they sort of set themselves up for a bit of bashing, in a way... (but that's just my personal opinion, and, as usual, probably doesn't reflect the opinion of most people on here)
Well, whatever.You are bordering on ass hole territory. There is a difference between being honest and being mean.
If someone says to me "This game is excellent and it took me years", I expect it to actually be excellent. When I realise later that it is indeed not even at alpha and is something that should've taken 6 days, you're gonna get both barrels.
For that I make no apologies whatsoever. This is meant to be a forum for professional independent game developers.
I mean, the graphics truly suck ass. I understand they're meant to be retro, but lets take a look at the original game. The spectrum version had better graphics!
If otoh you ask me for advice on how to program games, you'll get plenty of positive encouragement. Just don't fart on me and tell me it's perfume.
This links into your thing about vsync locking. Most games allow you to turn it off because doing so doesn't affect the speed things move. Your game either runs at full tilt or you have the default speed for the man very wrong indeed - I couldn't control him at all on my beast machine at work. Not that this should tax a 486 so I don't have a clue what the actual problem might be.>Geezer crossed the screen in seconds
Can you be more specific?
I'm taking your advice Matt.
>6 years is a typo, right ?
>Surely you mean days ?
Here's my reply to applewood
thankyou for taking the time to comment on my game
I'm ok to go around this forum following AppleWoods 'acceptable insult' example now? And I'll get the same pleasent response? You'll have to be patient with me. I'm used to forums where such insults are looked down upon.
>it just feels awkward and clunky.
When I was a young adult I went through a strange period with respect to games. I found I had no patience for new ones. I'd feel frustrated that my habits learnt on prior games worked against me on new ones. I felt all the games that I'd played just a few years early were great while new ones were rubbish. I deleted several games off my HD for being annoying, many of them are now considered awesome games, one of which was starcraft. What was going on? Later, I realised that I'd lost a certain awe for games, and it was this awe that held me to play through the 1st few hours of gameplay. I didn't need to be patient to learn the control system, like no player in 1994 needed to be patient with Doom or Wipeout, we didn't care if felt awkward as hell, we were in awe of gfx. In the 80s, a computer game alone was awesome enough to captivate an audience. In the 90's it had to have good graphics. And what now? Better gfx? For me there is no return to the awestruck days. Games I love like cavestory and FF2,3 which I only played quite recently, weren't enjoyable for the 1st few hours while I wasn't used to the game. It was simply frustrating wrestling with the control system and other unfamilar quirks. I got over the 'end of awe' days by simply being patient with games, giving them a chance. Now I can enjoy games better.
When people reply and say 'I played the game for 5 minutes and it felt clunky and awkward', they sound too much like myself 10 years ago. I can't fully respect that point of view.
Last edited by meemoe_uk; 03-25-2009 at 06:16 AM.
I'd give this up as a bad job, bud.
You can throw your own insults around right now - there're no rules, but you won't have any credibility as you first have to earn some. That means offering good advice, showing off good work, etc. When you've done that for a bit, you'll be listened to. Until then, you'll just appear to be yet another troll.
I don't think anyone really cares tbh. If you can't take criticism, keep your head below the parapet or don't show off something dire and claim it's excellent. I'm amazed you can't figure out why you're getting such a hard time tbh.When people reply and say 'I played the game for 5 minutes and it felt clunky and awkward', they sound too much like myself 10 years ago. I can't fully respect that point of view
Ah, I think I know what the prob is. Your not the 1st to complain on this. I'm a hardcore gamer, you're not. I like to play games like castlevania R-type, un-Squadron, speedball2 at around 180-200% normal game speed on my emulators. Fabulous gaming fun I tell ya!Your game either runs at full tilt or you have the default speed for the man very wrong indeed - I couldn't control him at all on my beast machine at work. Not that this should tax a 486 so I don't have a clue what the actual problem might be.
When I play old lode runner games they seem ludicriously slow. The RR 'normal'setting is slightly slower than I prefer, while the slow setting is just plain too slow for me. I know I'm different to most gamers, but if you'd all just tolerate the adjustment to high speed gaming, it's a whole new level of fun.
Funny, I find games like Unreal Tournament are plenty fast enough for me. Am I the only one that finds there is a large disparity between action game speeds?
Since others have also mentioned it, perhaps your right, it would be prudent to have a slower speed setting. But then, I worry that players won't ever make the move up to high speed gaming, which may be integral to RR fun.
In the mean time, don't get frustrated with RR's fast speed, see it as a chalenge!
This isn't the 1st time a game has been put down because of it's high speed. Super skidmarks got mixed reviews. Some say, includng myself and my gamer mates, that it was the best TD racing game ever made, while others threw the game away in immediate disgust. I saw one non gamer women go into a 2 minute asphxiating laugh in reaction to trying to play Sskidmarks because she realised she couldn't cope with the speed. The power of high speed games, oh yeah, only the priviledged few can appreciate it.
Last edited by meemoe_uk; 03-25-2009 at 07:06 AM.
Apple you are way too confrontational.
>You can throw your own insults around right now
I'm not going to, I don't like doing so. I'm amused by your method though. Unobjectively insult people, then accuse them of insulting you. It's back to front.
I've IDed your insult. Are you going to show me any one of my insults you keep accusing me of throwing?
By the way, if you want awkward, try playing old lode runner games at increased speed on your emulators, then you might appreciate some of the work that's gone into RR to make it playable.
This thread got me curious enough to try it. My guy also shot off at a super fast pace, and got stuck after reading the first sign. I wasn't able to do anything else so quit.
It could be a bug maupin. How long was he stuck for before you gave up? He's only spose to be stuck for 1 sec. After that it can only be wrong controls. Have you checked the controls?
"Most gamers I know tick the 'no Vsynch' box when given the option."
You're kidding right? Most casual gamers have never even heard of vsync. Always code your finished games to run with vsync turned on. The only time no vsync is even remotely useful is to test your game loop full out. If you're not going to take the time to code time based or fixed logic code, then at the least put vsync in and you'll have some frame rate throttle based on monitor refresh speed.
These days, there's so many products competing for peoples attention. If you don't make it easy (real easy) for people to get into and start playing your game, they're going to pass over it in favor of something else.
As an example, here's a game with a strong retro feel, real simple graphics, which is fun and easy to get into, and very well presented despite its simplicity:Don't look back.
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