All games on Reflexive $9.99

[Nexic]

I do think if your titles are good enough they should be marketed on the various portals, but never should you rely on portals as your main revenue.

That's the same thinking I used to have. However now with them deliberately undercutting your direct sales it just seems pointless. Unless you're going to end up in the top 10 it can't possibly be worth it.

[KNau]

Exactly. And you're not just dealing with the portal but also all their affiliates, which means by the time the deal is done your website is bumped to the second or third page of Google search results for your game if you're lucky!

I just did a random Google search for one of the Big Fish top 10 games (that wasn't developed internally) and not only does the developer's site not appear in the first 5 pages of Google results but also the piratebay, rapidshare entries rank higher. Essentally meaning that even if the developer had a direct sales business (they don't) they wouldn't be getting sales anyways.

Let's not forget the piracy issue - so not only are you letting your game be sold as a disposable commodity (and sacrificing direct sales) but you're also giving your game to thousands of hackers who are already sitting on key generators because the portal's DRM strategy is hopelessly broken.

It used to be that if you got listed at all then you had some decent money. Then it was "as long as you make the top 10". Now you have to hit the top 5 or you're better off with a day job.

How far can the odds diminish in this lottery and still have people play?

[Jim Buck]

This is a good point, and I am very curious about companies that are making games that lie directly in the middle of CasualTown and HardcoreCity. I, too, am working on a non-casual title and am wondering if, by the time I ship, will that "middle" market be equally screwed by the seeming-commoditization of games.

I do not think I'll be going the portal route. In fact that suits me just fine as the games I make aren't casual.

[Roman Budzowski]

Why do people put up with this'game installer client' bullshit?

Because not everyone is as smart as you! Before portals introduced download managers the most common question for their customer service was: "how do I install this game?".

cheers
Roma

[Spore Man]

Because not everyone is as smart as you! Before portals introduced download managers the most common question for their customer service was: "how do I install this game?".

Are you serious? But browsers of today basically act like download managers already. Firefox's default settings show downloads in a download panel, where the user can double-click the entry once it's done. If they are too dumb to do that, the default settings also download the file to the Desktop where, presumably the customer need only SEE the new short-cut icon and double-click it.

(I see the purpose of the Download Manager more as a direct means to communicate with your customer; Announce new games, entice them with offers, etc...)

[Sybixsus]

I just did a random Google search for one of the Big Fish top 10 games (that wasn't developed internally) and not only does the developer's site not appear in the first 5 pages of Google results but also the piratebay, rapidshare entries rank higher. Essentally meaning that even if the developer had a direct sales business (they don't) they wouldn't be getting sales anyways.

Isn't this kind of backwards? You're using their poor search engine rank to demonstrate that their direct sales would be poor if they had any, but it seems equally as likely that their search engine rank would be much better if they had a direct sales business. Because they'd care, for one thing. Wouldn't you need an example of someone that does have a direct sales business to really draw any conclusion here?

[Maupin]

I hate download managers, too. Imagine the hell of every portal having their own manager like Big Fish Games. Reflexive's games outside of Amazon don't use one, and I sincerely hope they never do. Some customers (mostly older ones) have told me they prefer Reflexive's games to Big Fish Games' because they don't have to screw around with a download manager.

And on the flip side, I have received email from customers who don't know how to install games. Or can't figure out how to download them. You cannot trust a customer to know what the word "download" means, their own email address, whether they use Windows or OS X, how to doubleclick, etc...

[Musenik]

And on the flip side, I have received email from customers who don't know how to install games. Or can't figure out how to download them. You cannot trust a customer to know what the word "download" means, their own email address, whether they use Windows or OS X, how to doubleclick, etc...

It's so true!

[cyrus_zuo]

I've become a big fan of Steam over the last year plus. It makes the games better by its integration. Things like online saves and the high score features have totally changed my mind on download managers. (I really like sharing scores with friends...don't care so much about global high score lists, but against friends it's a definite plus)

Then again Steam probably isn't exactly what is being talked about when talking about download managers?

(and while speaking of Steam I have to put in another endorsement for Defense Grid, I really enjoyed that game )

[JGOware]

Are you serious? But browsers of today basically act like download managers already. Firefox's default settings show downloads in a download panel, where the user can double-click the entry once it's done. If they are too dumb to do that, the default settings also download the file to the Desktop where, presumably the customer need only SEE the new short-cut icon and double-click it.

(I see the purpose of the Download Manager more as a direct means to communicate with your customer; Announce new games, entice them with offers, etc...)

"What's Firefox?" Said the typical casual game downloader.

[GolfHacker]

And on the flip side, I have received email from customers who don't know how to install games. Or can't figure out how to download them. You cannot trust a customer to know what the word "download" means, their own email address, whether they use Windows or OS X, how to doubleclick, etc...

Yup. It really is true. I've had to show many a family member, friend, coworker, etc how to find and download a game, and not only that, but how to install, how to purchase it online if they like it, etc. I also get lots of e-mails to that effect. I also get lots of e-mails from customers that don't understand they are purchasing something electronically and ask me when they can expect the CD to arrive in the mail.

We work in the tech industry, so we naturally think most people should be very computer literate by now. And while more and more are becoming so, there is still a vast majority that isn't.

[joshuadallman]

And on the flip side, I have received email from customers who don't know how to install games. Or can't figure out how to download them. You cannot trust a customer to know what the word "download" means, their own email address, whether they use Windows or OS X, how to doubleclick, etc...

I am a techie and I need a download manager. Here in South Africa internet reliability and throughput rates are horrible. I'm sure this is the case for much of the rest of the undeveloped world as well.

What happens when I download in Firefox here? It'll start the download and make some progress, then at a certain point it'll just quit and say the download was done. When I click the EXE I get a corrupt file error message. This is because Firefox "basically acts as a download manager" but is not actually a download manager. It doesn't check the downloaded file size against the one on the server, nor compare bits for error checking to make sure the file isn't corrupt. Meanwhile, using a download manager from a portal, I download a game with no error or problem. It takes a while, but unlike in Mozilla, it actually works.

Without a download manager, a portal doesn't know if it's losing customers due to incomplete and corrupt downloads. With a download manager, it fixes this potentially leaky pipe for profit. Download managers make sense and have my endorsement as long as they aren't bloatware.

[cliffski]

With a download manager, it fixes this potentially leaky pipe for profit.

As a customer I don't give a *** about the guys leaky profit pipe. I care about not cluttering my PC with bloatware.

if you net connection sucks, use get-right. Its under your control, its not a reporting and marketing system for someone.

download managers exist to upsell and pimp games, and collect usage stats. hand-holding some users through installation is a minor sub issue. They exist because they lock-in the customer.
If I'm wrong, show me the option to get that free game WITHOUT the client software. Show me the direct exe link option.

[tolik]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way to download this free game without 3 things:

- being registered at Amaxon
- entering a credit card
- installing game downloader

So that deal appeals only to existing Amazon customers.

And that downloader tool launches each time the computer starts without any extra benefit which is really annoying.

[Spore Man]

if you net connection sucks, use get-right. Its under your control, its not a reporting and marketing system for someone.

Wow, I haven't heard that name in years! People still use this?

[mooktown]

Wow, I haven't heard that name in years! People still use this?

people with slow internetz, yes

[Backov]

Actually I have fast internet (download maxes out at 1800k/sec) and Reget helps a lot - lots of servers will throttle the individual connection but not the IP, so Reget opens up 20 connections and maxes out my connect.

[mooktown]

I use a download manager because of regular power outages due to storms

[desmasic]

I have seen only Orbit (search google) work on Opera/FF/IE without any issues. So yeah, nothing comes close.

[MerscomMan]

I thought it was interesting that Amazon sells all the best selling books for download on the Kindle for $9.99: http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Amazons...5083675&sr=8-1

Probably shows they have found a lot of benefits to the $9.99 price point overall.

[desmasic]

Probably shows they have found a lot of benefits to the $9.99 price point overall.

Either that or the fact that the authors are selling books mostly offline as well at full price and making enough money to be not bothered by such 9.99 offers online.

[mooktown]

Probably shows they have found a lot of benefits to the $9.99 price point overall.

benefits to whom?

[Jack Norton]

Found this interesting link today:
http://www.techflash.com/Casual_gami...s39827417.html
BFG and Wildtangent CEOs talking about amazon, iphone and flash dev. What they say is interesting.

[Warlock]

As Reflexive affiliate I see (in my affiliate sales report) that some games still have normal price = $19.95-$19.99.
I'm talking about games like:
Diner Dash = $19.95
Heavy Weapon = $19.95
7 Wonders II = $19.99
Peggle Deluxe = $19.95
7 Wonders Treasures of Seven = $19.99
.. and maybe some other (I just don't know it all)

Yesterday I send request to set the same price ($19.95) for my game, but still don't receive a reply.

[Maupin]

I suspect that your contract with Reflexive differs somewhat with that of Playfirst, Mumbo Jumbo, etc...

[KNau]

BFG and Wildtangent CEOs talking about amazon, iphone and flash dev. What they say is interesting.

Interesting read. I'd take anything Alex St. John says with a huge grain of salt. Wild Tangent could give Peter Molyneux a run for his money in the "overinflated self opinion, talks shit without backing it up" deparment.

I especially like his claim that portals are steadily losing their business...to him. I guess Fate (the only brand they own) must be really big with the match 3 / hidden object crowd because none of the other games in their top 5 are exclusives.

[jcottier]

I'd take anything Alex St. John says with a huge grain of salt.

Actually, you should take all comments with the same precaution. They are not going to say they are scared by competition, even if they are.

JC

[Sybixsus]

A different audience, I'll grant, but I thought Gabe Newell's comments at DICE 2009 were interesting and relevant here too.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=22378

A broad 75% price cut on Steam produced a 1470% increase in revenue (not sales) and a 50% price cut on Left For Dead in particular, led to a 3000% rise in sales (not revenue.) Italics added for clarity as he unhelpfully mixes his metrics. Or the writer reporting did.

[Thorbrian]

which is why I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER buy a game from Amazon or reflexive.
I am capable of running an .exe installer. I don't need some piece of bloated spyware crap on my machine permanently running when I'm working, just to download a file.
Why do people put up with this'game installer client' bullshit?

I just wanted to add 2 things about game downloader clients and Reflexive and Amazon:
1. Reflexive has no current plans to do any kind of game downloader client whatsoever for GameCenterSolution, and we wouldn't add or change anything about the affiliate system technology for delivering games unless we did performance testing/analysis and were convinced it's better for the affiliates.
2. Amazon's downloader client is not "spyware" and it provides 3 specific features, all of which are there because the design team believes they are valuable to the amazon audience, first is download performance (client downloads are significantly faster and have a better completion rate), the client automatically activates games without logins or codes, and the "remote load" feature allows people to initiate download games to other computers (this is intended primarily for large downloads that take a long time)

[Ciardhubh]

a 50% price cut on Left For Dead in particular, led to a 3000% rise in sales (not revenue.)

This gets cited all over. People say, that it's the proof cheaper games would sell better, that games have to be cheap and it's a general epiphany.

If all games were at this price point, Valve would not have sold this many units. It was just a weekend discount. Of course they have sold more. That's the whole point of discounts and how they work. It's an awesome publicity stunt.

Left for Dead at this price was unique. If all games were this cheap, sales wouldn't have been at this level, due to lack of novelty and market saturation, in my opinion.