Some questions

[brandonman]

I just set up my site at Herges Games.com. I have gotten a little over a hundred views making posts on some frequent forums I visit, but 0, yes, 0 sales. I know it has only been a couple of days, but that seems horrible. I was expecting around 5 sales as a shot in the dark when I sat down and made up my goals: Get about $100 a month (Trying to stay realistic) -> 20 sales. Can some people check out my site and maybe tell me what I might be doing wrong and how to improve? Thanks!

[Desktop Gaming]

Honestly? Your site is awful.

1. First off, a hundred visits, but how many demo downloads? You do have demos available, right? I don't see any.

2. The videos don't play. I get sound but no picture. I see no screenshots either, so the bottom line is, I don't know what your games look like.

3. Black is a very very bad colour for websites. Too negative, too gloomy, too dark.

4. Your site has no 'layout' at all. Its just text upon text, the whole width of the screen. There is no attempt to add any style/finesse, or any user-friendliness.

5. The space shuttle logo. I don't like it, its too 'pixelly', but maybe thats just me. It doesn't seem relevant to the site in any way - its just plopped on there, up next to the title.

6. "If you are interested, send me an email: jediapprentice94 AT yahoo DOT com (replace the AT with @, the DOT with ., and transpose the spaces. This should keep some of the spam-bots away)"

What the hell?? Change this, swap that, transpose something else? Its an e-mail address not a feckin Rubiks Cube! Yes you might get a bit of spam, but just delete it. Failing that, make an inquiry form and use that - that way your e-mail address won't appear on the page.

Also, get a proper domain name and e-mail address. I wouldn't give money to anybody with a website like that, and a Yahoo e-mail address. Except maybe via eBay.

7. On your 'store' page it says the game is £2.68. When I click the "buy" button it wants me to pay £5.35 - why? Is it £2.68 or £5.35?

8. Don't ever use Times New Roman on a website. You want a nice, clean sans-serif font like Trebuchet or Verdana.

[Jack Norton]

In case you don't know, 20 sales a month is not a trivial task to accomplish :) just a friendly warning: I thought to sell steadly 50/month with my first games, but was really wrong.

Beside that, redesign your website as first thing, sometimes is better just to use those existing templates, they look professional at least.

[ZeHa]

Now I managed to watch the video somehow (it didn't work in the beginning), and I wonder if it's a joke ;)

Seriously, the site is very basic and very amateurish, it looks like someone's first try to play around with HTML, and also the game would be a good "tutorial game for beginners" who want to learn how to program games. But it doesn't offer anything, it's just a spaceship and one enemy on a black background, and all you have to do is to shoot the enemy over and over again.

If this is really meant to be serious - then please give a honest answer to this question: Would YOU buy that game yourself?

[Nexic]

3. Black is a very very bad colour for websites. Too negative, too gloomy, too dark.

Well, it's bad for a business orientated website, but if the site is all about a gloomy, dark game then I'd say black is a good colour.

Anyway, the other posters are right, your website isn't going to make people want to try your game. But your website is a minor problem compared to the fact that your game is terrible. This is the kind of thing that somebody makes as their first project, as a pure learning exercise, not something they try and sell. Why would people pay for your game, when they can go to newgrounds.com, and get 100s of games for free, that are all much better than yours?

My first commercial game (I had made lots of freeware games before it) sold 1 copy, but it was still a lot better than what you're offering. I would spend another year or two learning to make games before trying to sell something.

[Maupin]

Seriously, the site is very basic and very amateurish, it looks like someone's first try to play around with HTML, and also the game would be a good "tutorial game for beginners" who want to learn how to program games.

Agreed. And the video doesn't play for me. Well, it plays, but just black. You need to show screenshots and they need to be on your main page, or at the least on the game's main page.

You need a game demo. No one is going to make a leap of faith and pay for a game (even $5) from a dodgy looking web site...

[brandonman]

ok, I am going to revamp the design tonight, will add screenshots, and will work on a demo. The video should be playing...

[oNyx]

Revamping won't help, I'm afraid. Right now it pretty much looks like a practical joke. To tell the truth initially I thought it was one. The game for example looks more bland than most Java 4k games (i.e. games which use <= 4096 bytes altogether).

However, for a ~13 year¹ old ~6th grader¹ it's very impressive stuff. You really can be proud of yourself.

[¹ accordingly to Google, Last-Modified headers, and basic math]

A game like that won't sell though - even if the copy and presentation were any good. Well, you jumped the gun a bit. You need more experience and knowledge first - especially in the art department.

I'm certain that you'll be able to create a sellable game in the future. Perhaps in 2 or 3 years already. That probably sounds like a really long timespan to you, but in fact it isn't. Most people need a lot more time for that and there aren't many who manage that at that age.

I suggest that you write a few more simple games. At this point it doesn't really matter what kind of things you program. All you need is more experience. However, try to make 'em graphically as impressive as possible. Put all your focus on the visual aspects. Then get feedback and talk with your arty friends. Get also some feedback on the gameplay itself. And don't forget to get some feedback from strangers (forums/irc etc). While that kind of feedback can be pretty harsh, it's often very honest.

That probably wasn't the best motivational speech. Well, take what you need.

[defanual]

Hi brandonman, well this is one of the worst (pseudo) commercial games/websites I've ever seen, seriously! You only get kudos for the fact the game isn't a 'hello world' program. Sorry to be so harsh, but anything else would be more of an insult to both you and me, and benefit you none.

In addition to what everyone else has said, you really need to have a reality check here. If you think that because this game is £2.68, that your therefore going to get 5 sales (if any) a month you should know that there are plenty of free/flash games out there that this wouldn't even compare with.

I'm not going to give you specific feedback regarding your site or game, because I think you really need to go back to basics.

You need to check out what is currently available (free and commercial) and made. Look in the announcements section of this site for a start, if you had done basic research you would have spared yourself the embrassement, you'd have also found theres nothing that resembles your game or website.

Research gives you an idea of the standards you need to aim for and what people are playing/paying for if you are to stand any chance of ever getting any praise or money for what you might offer in the future.

Judging from your site and game, you really should start from the 'start' and work on improving your skills in game and web design. Tap back into the passion of gaming and start small (but not as small as you've started), in other words no World of warcraft just yet! Unless you have a bunch of cash or a few friends with similar interests/dreams, you have no choice but to do the above.

Need good sites for learning etc do a search in these forums/google and check out peoples sigs for information and inspiration! Hope you take this the right way and focus on the constructive elements should there be any unuseful comments:)

[Applewood]

heh defanual, your own site looks like a porn page :)

[defanual]

heh defanual, your own site looks like a porn page :)

First off, I wouldn't know what a porn site looks like:p If your talking about the main site, then yes, I'd agree it's due an upgrade as I've had a few comments already about that design, from old fashioned to 80's retro etc. I've had an update ready for months, but haven't uploaded it as I'm concentrating on my main problem, which is the need to make better games!

To address this (for the moment) I've mainly used the newer game site design (the entertainment subdomain) and this improvement is an example of what I'm talking about as in my previous post. I've wisely used the game site and not the main site to gain my OISV certification, get accepted for use of trialpay and increase sales amongst other things).

I'm just speaking from experience as someone who regardless of opinions in the past from wannabe game designers (who had never even completed a game let alone a website) about the aesthetics of my main site or quality of my games I've still managed to learn, complete, distribute and sell games to customers all around Gods earth (not massive by any means, but real paying customers nonetheless). I'm not trying to say hey, I've got it all figured out, or give anyone the impression that I'm at a 'Stardock' or 'Positech' level (yet;)).

You should take note that despite all the above, I didn't point to myself as an example in my previous post, but rather to the other developers here. Sort of a disclaimer so to speak:o

[brandonman]

OK, I've decided the game is bad because of the empty void in the center. I'm going to add backgrounds and improve graphics. Might that help?

[defanual]

brandonman, I have to respectfully say, I don't think your getting it. Read the above posts, they hold most of your answers. Adding a few backgrounds, improved graphics is the least of your problems.

You need to go off, learn and hone your skills for a few months/years until you have something that at the least is half of what you might find in the announcements section here.

It's not a quick thing, it takes time, trial and error (Patience, perseverance and persistence is the key). Start by playing some indie/casual games here and around the web. This is what your competing with. Do a search for freeware games in google, this is what your competing with, look at whats available in stores, this is what your competing with, it just goes on and on...

If you can afford to, work out what products are used to make games. For example, if you can afford to, you'd probably get some adobe products such as a suite or photoshop/illustrator, if you can't get those you'd start with gimp or paintshop pro. Then you'd Hone your skills in these packages, select and improve your programming language/skills, checkout the above game websites (especially the successful ones) and create websites of similar or better quality (Dreamweaver is another good adobe product for this, but is ain't free). You need to know this stuff. Research, learn and improve.

In any case, well done on taking the first steps:), but you have to realize it's exactly that, first steps. If it were quick and easy, everyone would be making games (and making money), trust me!;)

[JoKa]

Really, very basic :)

Would it be an option to switch to Multimedia Fusion as development tool? Besides nice background stuff you'd also get animated spaceships, where simple movements like Space Invaders style can be attached with a few clicks. Creating the rest of the code would be very easy, too. Not that it would turn this into a commercial game. But I guess MMF could help you to concentrate on the design aspect.

[hh10k]

My first commercial game (I had made lots of freeware games before it) sold 1 copy...

I bet that sale was a pirate who wanted to crack your game. :)

[Reactor]

Brandonman, nice work on taking the first steps towards doing something. A quick question for you- ignoring for a second what other people on here think, do you think your game and website look bad? If so, why do you think they do?

[Spore Man]

Brandonman... I'm gonna give you some very real advice. I hope you will be able to understand it and follow it (you're at an age where I know it's hard to see things from the same perspective as an adult, and everything, especially criticisms probably seem hurtful or hard to accept and deal with)...

Don't pursue making games as a means to make money. At your age, pursue it as something to:
- Have fun doing
- Have fun learning
- Have fun showing your work

Leave the "business" side alone until you've mastered more of the actual game design and programming. You don't need to worry about such things. Focus on the art of MAKING games. Become a great programmer. Challenge yourself at programming specific things. Keep honing those skills. Maybe even dabble in art, if you're so inclined.

You will know it's time to consider charging money when the games you come up with are comparable to other games that actually sell. Your space game is comparable to Flash games people can play for free on the web. So that's a sign your skills are there yet.

Here's a good way of looking at the situation: Let's say you want to run a Lemonade stand. You quickly make up a pitcher of lemonade, but it's your first time and it doesn't taste very good. Should you just price it really cheap and still try to sell it? No, because nobody wants to drink bad tasting lemonade. Instead, you improve your lemonade making until it's delicious and people will want to pay for it.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with offering your game for FREE, and asking for donations if people feel inclined to encourage an ambitious young man.

[RinkuHero]

The test I used for myself long ago was: Make freeware games. When I made a freeware game that got more than 100,000 downloads, I knew I'd be ready to start with shareware. It took me 13 years of making freeware games to reach that. Then I moved to shareware, last year.

[Obscure]

I just set up my site at [URL="http://www.hergesgames.com"]I was expecting around 5 sales as a shot in the dark when I sat down and made up my goals: Get about $100 a month (Trying to stay realistic) -> 20 sales.

Why would you think a number you invented would be realistic?

If you had researched what indie games sell you would have found that 0 was a pretty realistic number based on the experience of many new indie developers. It takes time to develop the skills to make good games and it also takes time to generate any awareness that your web site even exists.

[Grey Alien]

20 sales a month is not a trivial task to accomplish

Agreed! I don't even manage that many affiliate sales. Of course I don't any marketing though.

[xelanoimis]

Well, there's no harm in trying it to sell your first game...

Unless you get yourself too disappointed from failing it.
And unless you are too serious about it and make yourself a bad reputation.
Next time, you come with a better game, you don't want people to say:
"Oh, it's another joke from that guy with that crappy game, I payed $5 on!"

All the above posted comments are right and you should consider them as precious advice.
Read all the content of indiegamer forums to learn how you should do it right.
Study the websites of other people, who managed to sell their games,
and make a list of the differences from your site.

Another question to ask yourself is:

"Would you buy a game like yours, if someone else would be selling it?"
"Did you ever buy such a game?"

If your answer is "No", than you understand you have a lot to work on.
If it's "Yes" you're a very unique person, or perhaps a very rich one...

A better thing to do, while you work on your skills, is to offer your games for free and pay close attention to feedback.
It would be more valuable for you, than 100 people buing your game and saying nothing.

And if you like, ask for donnation support.
Something like: "help me write better games"...

Anyway, I think you're on the right track, if you manage to stay on it.

[MedievalElks]

Read all the content of indiegamer forums to learn how you should do it right.

How many people on these forums are making a living selling games?

[Grey Alien]

How many people on these forums are making a living selling games?

If you define "making a living" as covering your living expenses, then I'd say it's quite a small percent indeed. To guess the people that are making a good living a) see if they have an "Indie Author" badge, b) look at the games in their sigs (are they any good?), c) look at their website (does it look pro?) d) see how many posts they've made and e) see if what they post smells of "Bull". This is still not a firm guide of course but it helps. Some people actually publish sales figures and thus you can get an idea if they are making decent money or not, and some people just say outright that they are making a living (like me).

[brandonman]

What would you think of doing a little more improving and releasing as ad/donation ware supported?

[Reactor]

Brandonman, very few people donate. And if they do, they do it because they're either a family member, or because they were so moved by your game they felt you deserved to be paid for something you weren't asking to be paid for. "A little more improving" isn't going to bring your game to a place where that'd happen, in my opinion. If something like UT3 was being given away for free, then there might be a few people donating... but knowing gamers, I'm not even sure if that'd happen.

It takes a LOT to get people to take their wallet out and give you their money. It's effort for them, in their mind often risky, and it costs them their hard earned cash.

You have a long way to go. I'd stop thinking about selling (at all, in any way) for a few years and focus on improving your skills in every area. Take it slow. Give your games and experiments away for nothing. As people give you comments, you'll learn what people both like and dislike. And, at the end of the day you'll have a better idea about what will sell when it comes time to do so.

[hooble]

If you want to make a little money right away, I'd start making Java games for mobile phones. Simple little games can still make money, even the ugly ones, as long as the game-play is spot on. A simple game like yours might even make you a dollar or two a day. It all depends on how good the compatibility ends up being when you are done.

To see what I mean, check out http://gamejump.com. All the games here are free because of in-game advertising. People are willing to try anything as long as it's free. Learning to make mobile java games is fairly easy compared to many development technologies. Give it a try, you may enjoy it.

Oh and I also make a living creating games, but I give mine away for free :)

[Grey Alien]

OK bit of pimping here but I though this might answer a lot of questions:

(Is it possible to earn a living making Indie or Casual games?)

http://greyaliengames.com/blog/is-it...-casual-games/

Of course that's just my opinion ;-) I'm happy to hear of other opinions or expansions on that subject.

[Jack Norton]

I think you can make money both ways. The only great unconfutable difference is that selling directly, you can make any game you want, with portals, you have way less freedom both in the genre but also in gameplay decisions.

[Grey Alien]

I had to look up "unconfutable" ;-) I thought I knew what you meant though i.e. irrefutable.

Here's the thing though, sure you can make whatever game you want when selling it direct but if it's the wrong sort of game or has the wrong gameplay elements, you still won't make any money. So actually in both markets (direct/portal) you are limited if you want to make any money (agreed, you are *more* limited if you want to make a portal game). If you are making a free game for "art's sake" then sure, you aren't limited.

[Jack Norton]

Yes but beside the genre, also in gameplay. I've seen ridiculous requests from portals, like removing this and that, something that really can't be accepted from my "artistic" point of view (I think making games is an art).
Then of course if you're paid by someone you MUST do what they ask, otherwise next time they don't hire you. But even if you may make more money, is like mass-production and not really an artistic process...like I think it should be.