Info on publishers

[mikemz]

A site called Idigicon seems willing to publish 2d, simple games, but they have almost no information on publishing available on the website. Also, I found that the games usually have the real programmer's name hidden away, not on the title. Is this common among publishers?

[Sillysoft]

I am pretty sure that most publishers don't even mention the real developer's name anywhere. As far as they are concerned it is their game.

seems willing to publish 2d, simple games, but they have almost no information on publishing available on the website.

That seems like a red flag. If you are going to give up the kind of things that publishers want then they better be very good for you. I would find out as much as I could about them before agreeing to anything.

[BongPig]

Idigicon have been around a long time, and from what ive heard, very trustworthy.
They initially started up as a publishing house for Blitz Basic games but have now moved on to publishing lots more.

Heres some publishing info from thier site:-
http://www.idigicon.com/getpub.asp

We nearly signed up ourselves, but decided in the end that our target gamer isnt the typical visitor iDigicon gets. You can see from thier genre list that they cater for very casual games, including educational and games for girls. If you fit into that catagory, you could do alot worse that getting in touch with them.

Certainly NOT one of the bad guys.

[Jack Norton]

Certainly NOT one of the bad guys.

You sure? I've heard quite different stories...
Anyway when they asked me to signup UBM in EXCLUSIVE with them I laught... why I should give them the exclusivity of a game if I want only to publish it on retail market?

[BongPig]

Thats fine Jack.
You cant critisise somebody for wanting your game exclusivly. Take it as a compliment and then say NO!

Ild be interested to hear any negative comments to clear this up.

And back to the original questions.... nearly all publishers will hide the developers names from the product page. So they should really, otherwise they'll be linking to another site where the visitor can buy the game. Not good if they've spent loads of time and money getting people to thier website in the first place.

[Nemesis]

It's funny you mention this. I have a tendency to download the demo, check who the developer is (if available) and go straight to their website to get the game if I'm going to purchase it

Then again, it may be because I'm a developer and like to find out who's behind the games.

[luggage]

Jack: Did they ask for exclusive retail rights? or exclusive including online? We tend to keep those seperate.

[Jack Norton]

Jack: Did they ask for exclusive retail rights? or exclusive including online? We tend to keep those seperate.

they asked for exclusivity retail+online, and obviously I didn't even replied to such an offer, expecially because I said to them that my game was selling already well online, and I wanted ONLY to expand to retail.

Their answer was quite bad, because I just said that I have a game that already sell, expecially in UK (more than 70% of UBM customers are from UK) so they should be happy to know that they could market a winning product. Instead, they wanted also the online rights? ehm...

Their impression to me wasn't really good, but it may be a wrong impression...

[svero]

There's nothing unusual about a publisher wanting exclusivity. In fact until recently, exclusivity has been pretty much the norm. From the publisher's point of view exclusivity is often the only choice available if they plan to do any promotion. If you were to publish a title with no exclusivity what is your incentive to advertise? If you advertise the product will you be advertising for your competition who've also picked up the same game? When you put money into promoting a game you expect to be the one getting the reward from that. That's just one example. So looking for an exclusive is not in itself unusual or a bad sign.

Keeping in mind that im not a legal expert here's my take on protecting yourself as a developer...

As a developer though, an exclusive contract presents a problem. If you make a mistake and sign up with the wrong publisher then you can get locked into a contract that prevents you from suceeding with another publisher. For that reason it's often a good idea to consider a "lame duck" clause. Basically a clause where if the publisher doesn't meet certain minimums you have the option of terminating your contract with them on a few months notice, with the termination details spelled out in another section of the contract. (ie last payment etc..)

[Bluecat]

Something else to keep in mind.

If they are only going to retail the game in a particular region, say North America, you might want to ensure that the exclusive rights pertain only to that region. That way you are free to shop for a publisher that will sell your game in other parts of the world like Europe and Asia.

[ggambett]

Hmmm. The only familiar indie titles I see are Best Friends and Platypus - maybe Mike Boeh is the best person to share his experience with the guys?

[simonh]

Idigicon's strongest point is shipping budget retail titles in the UK. They do that very well, and you can see many of their games on the shelves of Game stores in the UK.

As for their online presence, I'm not sure about that to be honest. Their website could be better and I'm not sure they're fully comitted to that side of things.

Personally I would try and get a UK-retail only deal with them. Well actually that's what I'm trying to do right now...

Also, I believe they prefer to pay a single upfront payment rather than any kind of royalties.

[KNau]

I had a brief experience with Idigicon and it ruled that company out for me forever. Lots of promises and then months would go by without any contact, try to follow up and told things like "I'll get back to you on Monday" and then another month would go by. They would always reappear with lame excuses for losing contact.

And this was during the initial contact stage! Most publishers will wait until after they have your game before they do the magic disappearing act. I never could tell if it was laziness, incompetence or rudeness on their part but it was surely one of those.

Lastly, the quality of their game products are almost universally bad. Go ahead and download any random 5 games from their site, I guarantee 4 of them will border on unplayable. Do you want to be associated with a brand like that?

I haven't seen anything Idigicon can do (including retail exposure) that you couldn't do yourself to better effect with a little effort. But I fully admit, I am biased and have a severe grudge against the company.

[ggambett]

Most publishers will wait until after they have your game before they do the magic disappearing act.

I had this experience with Mediaphor. No news (and not even mail replies) once the contract was signed. Posting this so it comes up when someone searches for Mediaphor.

[Andy]

Lots of promises and then months would go by without any contact, try to follow up and told things like "I'll get back to you on Monday" and then another month would go by.
And this was during the initial contact stage!

The same is here. We got some contacts with this company something near 8 months ago. That was something: "We'll discuss your products on our always Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday meeting" - didn't hear from them any more. Perhaps they discussed the products... But I wasn't trying to disturb them anymore after that - what for?..

[Coyote]

Anyone familiar with Merscom? Looks like they are attempting to be a syndicate... they buy licenses to games, and then sell the licenses to other publishers. That's about all I was able to gather, except that they had Savage and ThinkTanks amidst their stable of games (which are great games to have in their list...)

[Fost]

Just wanted to chime in late here with the 'ignore publishers that don't pay up front fees' thing. If it's the only wisdom I can ever impart to new developers then I'll be happy.

We have never made any money off anyone unless they paid up front fees, and the publishers that did also turned out to be trustworthy and great to work with - we even consider some to be like friends on the web now.

Coming from a mainstream gaming background, we thought publishers would be at the forefront of our business so we spent a lot of time with them. I'm pretty sure we could have develoeped and released a game in the time it took talking to them.

One final note: none of that applies to online publishers such as reflexive or garagegames - who I'm pretty sure have to work on a royalty only basis. In any case, I've never used them, but I'm sure these guys are trustworthy - as they are all developers themselves and know 'where it's at'.

[Royel]

Anyone knows about xing interactive & their commitment to developers?

[KNau]

I've been working with Xing to rerelease one of my older games and so far they seem to be very easy to work with and haven't lost contact with me even after the contracts were signed and the game was in their hands.

I've read other people's negative comments on Xing but so far that hasn't been my experience. They made some good deals with foreign subdistributors and I have been very pleased, certainly better than anything my previous (never to be mentioned) publisher had done.

Note that I haven't received any of the money owed to me yet (4 months into the process) but that has more to do with the subdistributors and a quick changing of our contract this past month than it does Xing's practices. I have faith that it will all be ironed out soon.

It really does depend on the game as to how well they can market and sell it. It doesn't seem to me like the 2D puzzle / arcade category does as well in Europe / overseas as it does in North America. Especially if you are looking for retail exposure.

Lastly, one thing to get used to is that dealing with foreign distribution is that it's a hideously slow process! Expect to spend a couple hundred bucks in Fed Ex deliveries and at least 3 - 4 months to go by before seeing any money from such deals. It just goes with the territory.

[svero]

>Just wanted to chime in late here with the 'ignore publishers that don't pay
>up front fees' thing. If it's the only wisdom I can ever impart to new
>developers then I'll be happy.

Yes I agree this doesn't (currently) appy to online publishers. We're generally talking retail on this advice.

I'd like to also mention that new developers who've never faced this scenario before might be afraid to walk away from a deal because they're insisting on a deposit that the publisher is unwilling to give. Don't be afraid to walk away! If a publisher cant pay you a percentage of their minimum sales upfront you will most likely never see dime 1 from that deal. So when you're walking away comfort yourself with the thought that you're actually ahead of the game. Not only did you walk away from a deal that probably wouldn't have paid off, but you're also not tied to a lame contract that prevents you from finding opportunity elsewhere. Think of the up front fee request as a filter. It's difficult to tell the good from the bad company if you've never dealt with them. The fee is generally a good indication of how much they believe their own promises.

[BongPig]

Getting ignored by publishers is something we all need to get used to, and get over. Always look at it as a sign they are not interested, and move on asap.

We could point fingers at iDigicon, but ive had the same experiences with much more established publishers. In fact, ive never come accross a publisher that didnt leave me hanging to some degree.

A thumbs up for GarageGames though. They were by far the most attentive and professional people I have yet to work with.

[Dan MacDonald]

A thumbs up for GarageGames though. They were by far the most attentive and professional people I have yet to work with.

Yet, they still recieve 100's of games for which they never send a response. It really is a fact of life, publishers often have so many games to look at there's just not time to craft a tactful "were not interested" letter to the developer. I agree with bongpig, if you are working with publishers you just have to get used to getting the cold sholder. It's nothing personal, it's just business.

[ggambett]

It really is a fact of life, publishers often have so many games to look at there's just not time to craft a tactful "were not interested" letter to the developer.

No need to craft one - they could send a standard "not interested" email. That would be much better than being ignored!

[svero]

No need to craft one - they could send a standard "not interested" email. That would be much better than being ignored!

I agree. I don't think there's any excuse for this kind of behaviour. It's just rude and IMHO it reflects poorly on the publisher.

[BongPig]

Granted. It does reflect poorly on the publishers.
But theres nothing we can do about it. Every line of business ive ever worked in is exactly the same.
We need to accept we cannot change the world, and deal with situations best we can. Coming to the same 'publishers suck' conclusion over and over again doesnt get us anywhere. Believe me, ive been there same as everybody else. Ive been ignored with the best of them! It used to really bother me till I realised I was wasting my time and productivity getting wound up.

The formula is simple. If a publisher likes your game, they WILL reply. If they dont, then they dont like it. Usually the developer goes through all kinds of paranoid thoughts. Did they get my demo? What if they didnt? What if the e-mail got lost? What if the link didnt work?
Usually followed by lots more mails to the pub asking whether they got your original mail or not.
Im sure this process is familiar to many of us here, including me!

We need to take back the power, and stop hassling these people for scraps. Ignore them like they ignore us. Dont let it get to you. They dont want your game? So what? The best you you can do is focus on something more productive.

[KNau]

The cold shoulder I can handle, and you're absolutely right that the key in those situations is to just move on if you don't hear anything. My pet peeve, and what occurred in the aforemention Idigicon situation was that the publisher did express interest and then disappeared - and on rare occasions when they could be tracked down they would reaffirm that interest but never act on it.

All I ask is that a publisher have the balls to either say "no" or just ignore me, but not lead me on. I specifically got out of mainstream game development because of nonsense like that! Thankfully, I don't plan on dealing with many publishers in the future as I'm wagering I can do better on my own.

[Greg Squire]

All of this has been really good advice, Is there a way we could put together a page or thread that would give us all a list of publishers and a rating for each of them? I think this could be really helpful for those of us starting that process. I was thinking of something along the lines of an "epinions" sort of thing, but I'm not sure that's possible on this forum. Maybe instead this could be a simple as a sticky thread with everyone giving a rating for publishers they have some experience with. That could help us new indies to know where to concentrate our efforts. What do you all think?

[Jack Norton]

I think that this would be a very good idea.
There was a thread in old dex forums with publisher list, but I'd prefer a sticky one in the Indie Business forums.

To KNau: publishers often make promises then they disappear. I remember one that offered me 5000 euros for distribution of UBM in Poland. Then he said 2500 with futile excuses. Then again, When I asked for contract, they disappeared.
But I didn't requested more info either Bad for them, my game could have sold very well in Poland (boxe is popular there), they'd have recouped that investment in 1 month I think

[Jim Buck]

Just to throw in my 2 cents as I had dealt with EVERY major publisher when I had my own company (and I even work a publisher now [but as a developer])..

ALL publishers will usually seem interested even if really they are not. It's just how it goes with human nature. We had it happen tons of times. It's true that if you have something they REALLY want, you will hear from them.

And I think it's not extremely useful to post ratings of publishers since you are usually not dealing with a publisher as much as you are dealing with a particular PERSON. (Now, if there were ratings for people that worked at publishers, that would be far more useful.. though I'm not suggesting that. ) Each person within a publisher is completely different from the next, and having a bad experience with one (because that person is flaky or whatever) does not at all indicate what kind of dealings you would have if you reached a different person at the same publisher.

[Jack Norton]

Yes sure, it depends on the person and not on the Company in general.
However I found that the contact person for those companies (that specialize in small budget games) remain the same for long time (long time in game industry = 2-3 years even).
In fact could be worth a company list specifying the name of the person