Stamp Out Piracy Awareness Week

[dma]

The difference between stealing a ferrari and making an illegal copy of some software is that when you steal a ferrari the person who had this ferrari doesn't have it anymore. But when you make a copy of the software, both you and the person who had the software will have the software - so the person from whom you got the software loses practically nothing.

You're correct in stating that stealing can be thought of as one person losing something, such as a Ferrari, when another person takes it. But can't stealing also be thought of as one person gaining something, without compensating the person he took it from, regardless of whether anything tangible has been lost or not? Does it matter if the developer loses "nothing?" (At least initially?) In effect, doesn't the developer actually eventually lose the ability to one day buy that Ferrari, since he wasn't compensated by the people who took his software without paying? So basically, isn't the Ferrari, in the end, 'stolen' by the very people who steal the developer's software... at least in an indirect sort of manner?

*sigh*

[Adrian Cummings]

I skimmed thru all of this thread (I am interested just mega busy actually chasing mobile revenue chains and possible piracy myself around the globe) but whatever anybody states as fact here my answer to them is Piracy is a crime in all forms.

It is never a waste of time to even begin to attempt to help make a dent to stop it and StampOutPiracy are doing much of what many can't even begin to fully fathom or do anything about in a constructive way.

I'll say it again then... I highly rate their efforts and if I personally as a lone indie had more spare cash from the ripping basts I have had to put up with in mobile, I would even donate some to them to help their cause further - which is the best on here by far!

Anybody that moans after this thread point should be 'deleted' as they obviously have no understanding of the problem, are unwilling to learn before attempting to speak about it or are indeed a pirating git themseleves and are guilty of such things and trying to compensate in their own minds for it LOL

You should work to pay to play just like you do to eat and live in this world not 'expect' to be fed endless free warez (unless originally intended by the authour of course).

[Desktop Gaming]

It is never a waste of time to even begin to attempt to help make a dent to stop it and StampOutPiracy are doing much of what many can't even begin to fully fathom or do anything about in a constructive way.

I think they're doing a great job - the statistics speak for themselves.

Even without the statistics, my daily trawls through warez sites are turning up fewer and fewer active links to pirated software. Six months ago I'm pretty sure there'd be a strong case for getting rapidshare shut down based on their inability or unwillingness to act against illegally hosted files.

Personally I'd like to see operations stepped up to bring prosecution against those proven to be repeatedly uploading copyrighted material. A class action brought by hundreds of developers against the major perpetrators would be just the ticket. Costly, though....

Onward...

[stampoutpiracy]

Thanks for people's kind words.

Our opinion is that piracy is theft - end of story, no debate.

StampOutPiracy is there to stop game piracy so that developers work is paid for when it should be. A lot of people in the past have also said things like "you're wasting your time", "losing battle" etc, but we are making a dent and our stats prove this. Also, remember that StampOutPiracy was only setup at the end of August and we've already achieved (and learned) a lot in this time.

We're a free service for all game developers and it's a subject that we feel passionate about - surely that can't be a waste of time?

[dma]

We're a free service for all game developers and it's a subject that we feel passionate about - surely that can't be a waste of time?

Of course it isn't, and those who suggest otherwise are just being silly. It may be an uphill battle at times, but just think of the consequences if everyone thought like Mikademus, and asked, why even try... pirate sites would multiply like crazy, without a worry in the world that anyone is trying to stop them. So of course it isn't a waste of time.

[Bad Sector]

@dma:
Well, of course if you put it that way, you are right. But this is a very indirect approach and i'm totally sure that nobody (with possible exceptions) thinks like that because people don't do more than one or two "hops" in their thoughts when they're going to do something and this is what i'm talking about.

[Game Producer]

Wrote a post too:
http://www.gameproducer.net/2007/11/...wareness-week/

Our corporate company supports stamping out piracy in both offline game creation of cartridge
and cd-rom formates to paid online gamesites.

Good one

[xelanoimis]

I think they're doing a great job - the statistics speak for themselves.
Onward...

Are they really closing so many reported websites? How?
Did any of you reported a warez website that got closed after that?
I've just reported a major pirate website, to see what happends.

Another idea to motivate people buy originals, would be to give them some bonus stuff
when they order the game. From posters, colectables or soundtrack to additional levels or even a special price for future orders.

If you are a portal, or a publisher and you have means of closing (or report to be closed) pirate sites, you could give a special sell price for these who report a warez link with the game they're buing.

And to share some "funny" experience, from about 6 years ago, when there were people coming at your door, with a bag of pirated CDs with games, movies and music (mostly russian and bulgarian copies), trying to sell you the latest titles... There was once when, one guy like this came to our office, trying to sell us one of the games we recently made. The funny thing was that the game was totally translated in russian. Even our names on the credit page have been spelled in russian. It had printed cover and cd printed art. And it even had good russian voice performance, instead of the original english.

Anyway, these days the piracy moved from door selling to internet warez and mostly torrents, so it's all about closing these sites that provide links to them, or even direct downloads.

Another idea to fight piracy, would be to have tons of articles anti-warez and anti-piracy. When people would search for warez downloads with google or other search engine, they would bump into these articles, pushing the warez sites to the bottom of the listed sites.

So search engines could help with it too. They could provide a way to report such links, so they will remove them from the search results.

[stampoutpiracy]

Are they really closing so many reported websites? How?
Did any of you reported a warez website that got closed after that?
I've just reported the naughtynaughtywarezsite website, to see what happends.

Yes, those stats are real. You can believe them if you want. The majority of the statistics are made up from file sharing links or accounts being removed. These are the easiest to get removed quickly. Nearly every Warez site links to a file sharing account so it's a quick way to stop illegal files from being shared.

I think there are a good few people on this board who can testify that we have had sites/accounts/blogs etc removed.

In your post above you shouldn't have linked to a warez site in a public forum. It might be a good idea to edit your post.
We received your piracy report. This is one that we have dealt with in the past but haven't had any luck yet. Although a new avenue has just opened up with regards to it, so I thank you for reporting it.

[Adrian Cummings]

On a somewhat lighter note, although not game content but much the same thing:

I recall reading some years back now, about some random person who dealt in a large amount of dodgy DVD's walking into a large office block reception somewhere in the UK? on his 'working' travels and offered his warez to the staff who greeted him with great joy!...

They said 'wait a minute we'll get some other members of staff that will be very interested in your very fine latest movie collection at those prices!'... turned out this person had walked into a local trading standards office unawares to peddle his ill gotten gains!

That must rate as the all time complete prat pirate award - he got nicked!

The best practical form of anti-piracy I know of to date and have used rather a lot myself, is Greystripe's idea on mobile of releasing ad-wrapped software. The consumer (or even the Pirate if they want) basically downloads the full content free of charge and has to look at one simple advert at the start of the game... I then get paid everytime they 'play the game' - works great for mobile games alongside regular portals and carriers who carry the non ad-wrapped versions of course - it has worked pretty well.

Somebody should do this for PC etc. as I've been saying for ages now, so then you have best of both worlds at least!

[cliffski]

actually I love sites like the one mentioned above, because they are a trojan / spyware scam or a credit card scam. they are hilarious. they list cracks that don't exist 9like the 766MB full ISO of kudos - hahahaha) and want your credit card details for you to join.

I love those sites. I hope many people join them. Then they will realise the risks
they run when the are too tight-assed to buy software.

the sites I hate are the pirate bay and similar sites that are free and anonymous. they are the worst. Slowly, they are being prosecuted. there are already quite a few torrent site owners in deep legal and financial doodoo. More will surely follow. Once there was Napster, then there was Oink, they get caught in the end.

[tentons]

Then the flood of new pirates will replace them with no second thoughts about laws or other people's livelihoods.

That doesn't mean it's pointless to try and curb the most egregious piracy, just that there should be moderation in the amount of effort (and head-exploding rage, as demonstrated in this thread) spent on that issue, and there should be no expectation that it will ever end. Besides, the inability to crack a game is not necessarily an incentive to purchase it. They'll just crack someone else's game and forget about yours.

But, instead of lamenting that which we are missing, maybe we should cultivate that which we have? Seems like a more productive, positive way to handle the problem to me.

[Coyote]

Then the flood of new pirates will replace them with no second thoughts about laws or other people's livelihoods.

Not if they see the risk. That's the deal. There are completely amoral people who will not consider the ethics or even legality of what they are doing, but they will think twice if they believe there's a very real chance of being successfully sued for a million dollars, or put into jail for three years.

[Backov]

Thanks for people's kind words.

Our opinion is that piracy is theft - end of story, no debate.

Piracy is rape and pillage on the high seas. What you're talking about is copyright infringement, which is a civil matter.

[dma]

Piracy is rape and pillage on the high seas. What you're talking about is copyright infringement, which is a civil matter.

Actually, the old definition of piracy was simply, 'robbery at sea.' Times change, and so do definitions... although there are crazy people out there who still practice the traditional definition of piracy at sea. Hopefully they'll get their due one day. Live by the sword, die by the sword, and all that instant Karma stuff.

By the way, I earned more in 1996 off of copyright infringement settlements, than I made that entire year in normal sales.... which themselves were very good. It was a very, very sweet year. So given the choice, I'd much rather have my work infringed upon, than pirated.

[cliffski]

Piracy is rape and pillage on the high seas. What you're talking about is copyright infringement, which is a civil matter.

so what? the legal definition is irrelevant to the guy who loses sales due to it. You can call it smorgasboard if you want. just prosecute the bastards.

[Backov]

Ya know, no matter how much you hyperbolic anti infringement people rant, that still doesn't make it theft or piracy. It's copyright infringement, it's wrong, and you can sue them.

It doesn't hold even a single candle to being robbed or having something of yours stolen from you, and to compare it to such is just you being, as I said, hyperbolic. Much like in politics, the name frames the debate, and it's quite obvious how you guys would like to frame this one.

Also, you can't generally prosecute a civil matter. That the US and other countries have stupid things like the DMCA is a sad state of affairs. It's directly equivalent to asking the government to enforce your contracts for you.

[dma]

That the US and other countries have stupid things like the DMCA[...]

What's unfortunate is that we need to enact measures like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in the first place. Why can't everyone in this whole, happy, well-adjusted world just buy the things they want, even if they could easily get a copy from their buddy or off the Internet? The reality is that the world isn't really as nice and good and sweet as we all secretly wish it could be, and because of that, many people decide to copy rather than buy. And that's why "stupid things" like the DMCA are signed into law.

[Backov]

What's unfortunate is that we need to enact measures like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in the first place. Why can't everyone in this whole, happy, well-adjusted world just buy the things they want, even if they could easily get a copy from their buddy or off the Internet? The reality is that the world isn't really as nice and good and sweet as we all secretly wish it could be, and because of that, many people decide to copy rather than buy. And that's why "stupid things" like the DMCA are signed into law.

LOL. Not even going to bother.

[dma]

LOL. Not even going to bother.

I'm glad, since if name-calling and doing back-handed insults is all you're really capable of, we're all better off.

[cliffski]

LOL. Not even going to bother.

good, please don't. we are all sick of people whining about how fighting piracy is pointless. please go away and write a nice freeware game. what StampOutPiracy does can not POSSIBLY hurt you, unless you are deluded enough to think your target market is software thieves, in which case, good luck making a living. if you must whine, post a list of games you want SOP to ignore and leave up live links. Funny how nobody ever takes us up on that offer, except hacker evolution as I recall. (widely pirated btw).

People saying "ahh but you haven't lost anything if I copy your game" and "its not theft" to me just sound like they are trying to convince themselves, not me.

This thread could be something from digg or slashdot. And that's a BAD thing.

[stampoutpiracy]

Thanks to GameProducer for blogging about it - nice work.

Also, Cliff has a new blog post about piracy at http://cliffski.blogspot.com/2007/11...oed.html#links

The section which I think makes an excellent point from the developers side of things is:

"Working your nuts off for a year to create something original, and then seeing it being given away by other people for nothing the day it goes on sale is totally soul destroying. Especially when the idiots doing this get upset if someone does not 'thank them for their work', meaning their forum post with a rapidshare link."

So what has everyone else done to educate/inform their customers/visitors about game piracy?
Lets keep going!

[Adrian Cummings]

Personally I think you have had to have put your blood, sweat an tears into a creative work for a certain amount of time and then watch it be illegally copied on a mass scale before you have a grasp of what it feels like or to even begin to add constuctive opinion to such a debate.

Freedom of speech is paramount of course but there are some pretty lame attempts at comments from those that reckon that the efforts against copying, theft, piracy or any related words are a waste of time etc.

In fact I am half tempted to open up some torrents to 'your' produce and watch all the moaners here burn for a bit! - then you will have truely an idea of what it feels like in a few months time when you get less/limited sales etc. - that of course providing you have written something that can be pirated in the first place LOL

[Maupin]

I'm a little late, but I added a headline mention and links to Stamp Out Piracy on my portal site, GameSocks.com. Might get you a few hits.

[stampoutpiracy]

I'm a little late, but I added a headline mention and links to Stamp Out Piracy on my portal site, GameSocks.com.

Many thanks. Love the way you've got the socks on the main page discussing game piracy - clever idea
You've also been added to our Supporters section at http://www.stampoutpiracy.com/supporters.htm

[Maupin]

Thanks for adding the site.

The socks usually introduce and/or talk about the game that's ordinarily featured in that panel, so it wasn't too hard to make them talk about piracy instead. There might be issues or weird conversations generated when the javascript pulls new conversations from the server... not sure yet.

[ChrisP]

Thanks again to Stamp Out Piracy! You rock. Please keep up the excellent work. I'm impressed by that statistics page.

By the way, the people getting jumped on for saying "copyright infringement isn't theft" are technically correct. Just like I would be correct if I said "murder isn't theft". Is it wrong? Of course! Are the people who do it utterly immoral bastards? Should we try to stop it? Of course! The fact that it isn't theft doesn't change any of that.

I don't understand why people are being jumped on for pointing out a misuse of terminology. Well, I do understand; it's a touchy subject, and saying "copyright infringement isn't theft" tends to sound like "copyright infringement is OK" even when that's the exact opposite of what they were saying. But I think it's unfortunate.

It's natural to feel that you've been "robbed" when something of yours is pirated... and in a sense you have been... but it's still not theft, as such.

I think that needed to be said, but I guess it means I'm going to be flamed now, despite my strong anti-piracy stance. I'm on your side, guys! Let's fight pirates, not each other...

[Adrian Cummings]

This is true I do agree and I don't see why you should be flamed for stating that.

There are different levels of illegal copying and I tend to focus my efforts on the mass ones like torrents and larger freeloaders out there usually, not to mention more importantly in mobile, dodgy overseas distributors which are even worse in many respects!

[dma]

It's natural to feel that you've been "robbed" when something of yours is pirated... and in a sense you have been... but it's still not theft, as such.

I guess that's the reason that the No Electronic Theft Act has the word theft in it... because it's not really theft. Makes total sense.

By the way, that was sarcasm... in a sense.

[papillon]

Because politicians and headline writers NEVER try to spin words to promote their agenda!