[Feedback Req.] Social Satire RPG

[Musenik]

Hi,

Mousechief Co. has some new mischief for your mouse. Please try this extended demo, and help us make a better game. I added a list of our questions and concerns at the end of this post.

About the game: This is our fantasy RPG of social satire. The interface metaphor is a vintage, parlor boardgame. I like to think it's something you found in your great-grandmother's attic. I also hope you'll forgive your great-grandmother if she ever did anything like what happens in this game.

Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble!
(In the 1920s, small town USA was never this fantastic.)







FYI: PC version probably doesn't work under VISTA!
This extended demo goes beyond what will be available in the trial version. The game expires at the end of July. Expect a little rough reading. We can't afford proofreading until near the end of development.

Download Links: expired


Please help us with the following, after playing the game:

Did you have fun?
How far did you play?
How comfortable were you at learning the various, little games?
Were the goals clear and compelling?
At what point were you drawn into the story? Never?
Is this your kind of game?
Could it ever become your kind of game? How?
What do you typically play for interactive story goodness? (yes, RPGs, platform adventures and even FPSs like Half Life counts... :-)

What did we do wrong?
What did we do right?

What do you REALLY want to tell us about 'Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble'?


thank you,

[electronicStar]

Did you have fun?
mostly yes.
How far did you play?
about half an hour but got stopped with an error message at the end of a minigame(see log at the end of this post)
How comfortable were you at learning the various, little games?
I found them rather easy, I would have enjoyed even more different games.
Were the goals clear and compelling?
the minigames goals were clear but I think the metagoal isn't clear, I just wander randomly around the school, there's nothing that compels me to go to a particular place.
At what point were you drawn into the story? Never?
The story is okay but the interface needs to be cleaned up because it's getting in the way of immersion.
Is this your kind of game?
Mmh why not. I'm like story driven games.
Could it ever become your kind of game? How?
Simpler interface, Better graphics, better defined backgrounds for the main protagonists, a game that is more "story" than "casual game" is generally more my type of game.
What do you typically play for interactive story goodness? (yes, RPGs, platform adventures and even FPSs like Half Life counts... :-)
Unfortunately I don't see many opportunities to play this genre nowadays (I don't like point&Click adventures). Emulated old games are the most rewarding for me ATM.
What did we do wrong?
Interface should be simplified, I know it's supposed to mimic a boardgame but it can be simplified more without losing.
Graphics aren't very good, especially character faces(boardgame background is okay though).
The music sounds just like random public domain music. The genres are not always coherent and some of the Jazzy tunes sound too modern for the intended atmosphere(but many people will probably not notice/care).
Too many windows overlapping on the inteface.
What did we do right?
The story was interesting enough to keep me playing.
The little theater masks are a good idea.

What do you REALLY want to tell us about 'Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble'?
If you ever intend to redo the graphics you should really go for a "Art nouveau" style of graphics. Enhanced graphics would have a tremendous impact on this game.
I can see this sort of game having some success on portals.

Error log

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "main.py", line 74, in ?
File "main.py", line 29, in main
File "main.py", line 64, in gamemain
File "faceEngn.pyo", line 68, in RunFaces
File "explore.pyo", line 402, in Core
File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 80, in PumpEvents
File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 89, in HandleTimedEvents
File "encounters.pyo", line 104, in PopUpEncounter
File "faceEngn.pyo", line 155, in UpstageFaces
File "encounters.pyo", line 454, in Core
File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 81, in PumpEvents
File "fnfEvents.pyo", line 135, in HandleTheEvents
File "faces.pyo", line 159, in DoLitAction
File "encounters.pyo", line 774, in ExposeConfront
File "faceEngn.pyo", line 174, in UpstageFaces
File "resolution.pyo", line 175, in TransitionIn
File "dangerCentral.pyo", line 625, in AdvancePlot
NameError: global name 'exit' is not defined

[HDL]

I've been looking forward to Dangerous Highschool Girls in Trouble ever since I read about it on your website many months ago. As soon as I heard there was a demo I rushed to download it and I've been playing it for the last couple of hours. It wasn't quite what I expected it to be but that's not a bad thing. It's quite different and it's definitely still on my to buy list.

The first thing I did notice when looking at the screenshots was all the spelling and grammatical mistakes. I know you explained that you can't afford proofreading yet but you might want to cleanup those in the screenshots here anyway since first impressions can be important. The first impressions I had when I booted up the game though were good. I enjoyed the little intro and the music and felt that they set the scene wonderfully.

I was initially flustered when I had to choose a main character and I couldn't work out what did what. I'd have liked a more active help on what abilities were (maybe my mousing over or just next to the words) as opposed to having to click on the instruction screen myself.

I had big difficulties remembering which abilities allowed you to do what. I'd have liked a window or a reminder or something on the main screen instead of constantly having to flip to the instructions and then flip back to try and remember. Ditto with having to pick a girl to perform a specific task. It involved flipping through several screens in an attempt to remember what each girls stats were. Ultimately there didn't seem too much point in using anyone other than my main girl for everything.


Did you have fun?
Yes, I did enjoy the game. It was amusing and different.

How far did you play?
I played until the girls I got a packet of cigarettes from the rebel girl. I do plan to go back though (if I can).

How comfortable were you at learning the various, little games?
I found the games initially confusing. The flirting one I know I'm going to need a pen and paper in order to remember which actions get what results and scrambling about for a pen and paper does ruin the mood for me a bit. I wasn't certain what I was doing in the shell game until about the third time I played and even then I wasn't sure how exactly it worked. I did realise I'd to keep the other person from guessing the right one but it felt rather random whether they decided to look at the right shell or not. The expose mini-game was probably my favourite, but I'd have liked to have been able to guess words before using all my uncovering thingies. The insult game was fun too, reminded me a lot of the insult contest in Monkey Island which was always a favourite of mine.

Were the goals clear and compelling?
No. I wouldn't have called the goals compelling. They were interesting enough but not "oh my I really have to do this I can't wait to see what happens next." I did notice that my current goal was briefly flashed at the top of the screen and then usually ended up replaced with other stuff. I'd have liked the current goals to stay where I could see them so I could remember what I was supposed to be doing.

At what point were you drawn into the story? Never?
The story hasn't drawn me in. I don't particularly care about the story or about any of the girls. The ones in my gang (maybe I chose badly) just don't seem to have much of a personality. The NPCs are a little more interesting though. That said I am enjoying the game and the story is a lot better than most of the casual game stories that I've played. It just didn't grip me, not in the way that A Witch's Yarn did. I didn't particularly care about the girls having accidents, perhaps if it had happened to one of the girls in my group or they'd actually seemed to care about the people who were injured. My first introduction to the maintenance man was that secret of his, that he was from somewhere else and... well that was a dull secret. I'd have enjoyed something juicier to have him introduced although I suppose I can see the point in it being gradual.


Is this your kind of game?
Yes, I think it is my sort of game.

What do you typically play for interactive story goodness?
Adventure games and RPGs. I've just finished Hotel Dusk and the Phoenix Wright games on my DS. The last games on my PC I played with stories that I enjoyed were Dreamfall and The Longest Journey.

What did we do wrong?
What did we do right?

Hmm I think I've sort of answered these questions in what I've said above. For all I've said above I did enjoy it immensely, I'll definitely be buying it and I think there was more right than wrong in it.

Oh! Boyfriends, what does my boyfriend do and how can I dump him to get another one? Does he have stats or something? I couldn't work that bit out.

And I have to disagree with electronicstar about the graphics. I liked the graphics as they were. They seemed to fit the feel of the game and were appropriate. The music (which I turned off after the intro) seemed fine to me too, but then I'm clueless about that type of music.

[Musenik]

electronicStar,

Thank you! You found a script bug. Do you remember the encounter you were having at the time? It looks like you were playing the Expose secrets game.


Some of the information requested so far can be found in the context sensitive info screen. When choosing which girl will handle the encounter, click the i button for a reminder of which talents are useful for various the games.

To learn more about boyfriends, click the i button during the Flirt game. They are pretty useful.

Eventually, we will be adding a comprehensive manual to the info screen that will be accessed from another button at the bottom.

There is a price for using the main girl all the time. If she should lose a game and accrue a penalty, one of her girls will sacrifice themselves to save her, and exit the party permanently. (although you might be able to recruit them again, much later) If they had been the one to lose the mini-game they might only exit the gang for a few hours.

[electronicStar]

Oh sorry I don't remember.

[mrkwang]

I'm not sure exactly, what I am playing for this game. Tried around 20 minutes for demo, experienced several mini games, still don't have exact idea.

Maybe I'm not native English user from US, native Korean, and that could be the reason why.

[Musenik]

ElectronicStar,

I think I found the script bug. I've updated the files. There was a problem if the player lost the Expose game against Clara in the Library.

mrkwang,
Since the game is a social satire, it contains a lot of American, historical cultural references, and I purposely used language I thought conveyed life in the 1920s.

Thanks for your efforts! I would love feedback from more members here.

[HDL]

I know that a lot of information is included in the information screen. It's not the most user friendly of interfaces though and I have to keep flipping back and forth from it which ends up frustrating me. I'd rather have the option of keeping a window on the screen at all times showing me what's strong against what. It's equally frustrating having to flip through several pages in order to get the prizes page up when I'm talking to people.

I'd have liked the option to see what boyfriends do after I've recruited said boyfriend since I can't seem to find one now. I can't even remember his name. He's just some picture next to my girl and it's so impersonal. It would have been nice if he'd been just a bit more interactive.

I think I've played to the end of the demo or at least nothing else much seems to be happening. I can go to classes but there's no one else to talk to. I didn't end up being emotionally invested in the storyline. There didn't seem to be any real point in what the girls were doing. It didn't seem to serve any purpose for them rather than it was just something to do. I'd have liked for stronger motivations for their investigations. Have one of their boyfriends get into an accident, or one of the girls in your group and you have to investigate the nurse in order to get her back or just something like that.

There were also too many dull secrets. I'd have liked juicy gossip that mattered. The maintenance man's first secret, my first real experience of uncovering one just had me yawning. I didn't see why it was relevant that he was out of town. The second one where there's rumours of him and a woman was at least more exciting.

The best bit of the storyline was the hints about the 'adult game.' I enjoyed that part because there was a clear goal as well as a clear reward for investigating. I could see why the girls were interested in learning about it. That's something I think could have had seeds threaded in earlier in the game to get people hooked and interested in discovering what this adult game was.

The plot itself wasn't bad as such and seemed to get more interesting as you played on and the layers started unravelling but I do think the game needs that initial hook. It needs more of a motivation for the girls actions. More information about the girls would have been nice too since as it stands the NPCS seemed to be a lot more interesting than my gang.

I think that I hit a bug as well. I loaded up a saved game and the game crashed out. I've loaded the saved game again though and it seems to work fine.

Error Log
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "main.py", line 74, in ?
File "main.py", line 29, in main
File "main.py", line 64, in gamemain
File "faceEngn.pyo", line 68, in RunFaces
File "explore.pyo", line 403, in Core
File "explore.pyo", line 429, in HandleScreenEdgeScroll
AttributeError: MapFace instance has no attribute 'helpArrow'

[Musenik]

Wow,

Thanks a heap, HDL! You've got me worried, in a good way. I've been working on improvements to the initial story hook. Thanks for the suggestions. They'll come in handy!

That's a great, bug too! Easily fixed, but I may not update the files for another day or so. I'm a little swamped with preparations for the Seattle conference.

You are not quite done with the game. You should be able to break into the dean's office. You'll need the crowbar. If you win there, it opens up a brief exploration of the downtown game board. That's where the demo ends.

This is exactly the feedback I'm looking for. Hopefully more members will chime in with their personal reactions and suggestions!!

[HDL]

Oh! I did try the crowbar but must have used it in the wrong place. I was just told I vandalised the school for no reason which had me thinking that the crowbar wasn't going to be of much use. There were no obvious clues as to where to go from where I was. I thought I had to speak to that teacher but all I could do was go to her class and then she vanished which left me kind of confused. Might be good to have a nudge or something in the right direction.

It's a game that I really want to love and whilst it's not quite there in the execution I think the ideas are good. It just needs some tweaking to pull it all together. I'm still thoroughly looking forward to the finished game.

Now if only more of the people on this forum would offer some feedback.


Oh just found another bug which I'd experienced before but forgot about. Sometimes when playing the taunting game I don't have the choice to select my answers, it just chooses them for me and I end up losing for no reason.

[Cartman]

Typos:
=====
"Would you do little favor for me?"

Bugs:
====
Alt Tab didn't work. Just locked it down in my task bar and couldn't get back to it.

Opinions:
========
Didn't care for the shell game at all. I would make it more like the bonus round in Tapper.
The Taunt game was interesting, but I felt I should be able to run away if I was overly matched and didn't know enough taunts.
The word game where you reveal the parts of the sentences was nice, however it was easy to go back and forth through the unknown words, going through combinations. I think you should be able to only go back and forth so many times, or put a timer on this game. Also, I didn't understand why hearts turned into spades on the screen.

The dialog of the character in the wheel chair may be sensitive to some. Keep that in mind when writing the script for that character.

The right half of the screen I really felt should have been able to slide off the right side, so that I could see more of the board.

Answering your questions:
========================

Did you have fun?
Somewhat
How far did you play?
Discovered what the caretaker was up to and talked with the principle and girl in wheel chair.
How comfortable were you at learning the various, little games?
Games were relatively easy.
Were the goals clear and compelling?
They were clear, but not compelling to me. Seemed kinda dry with the dialog.
At what point were you drawn into the story? Never?
Never really, but I still played it. I can't tell you why.
Is this your kind of game?
Probably not. i wanted it to be, but it wasn't.
Could it ever become your kind of game? How?
It seems to be a board game trying to pose as a computer game. I like it to act more like a board game.
What do you typically play for interactive story goodness? (yes, RPGs, platform adventures and even FPSs like Half Life counts... :-)
RPGs, FPS, RTS

It's coming along nicely.

[Musenik]

Okay,

I've been away for most of the day. I'll try to catch up.


HDL,

that's a totally weird bug! Perhaps there were mouse clicks queued up? I'll check into it.

Use the crowbar on the door to the Administration, after you've learned the gambit game.


Cartman,

Hey, great information! Alt Tab will probably plague me forever. I put several fixes for it into the witch's yarn, but still never quite licked the problem. Time to hash it out, once more.

Definitely, tell me about the Tapper game when we meet up next week. BTW, see my PM to you.

Eleanor, who is the wheelchair girl, is a big concern, but I chose to be bold and use language that was used in the 1920s. I also used deliberately exaggerated depictions to keep her just as outrageous as the other girls. I'm okay with people being offended. It's an emotional subject. But I think most players will understand this is farce. Good farce steps on toes. THIS IS ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF BEING AN INDIE. WE CAN FACE OUR FEARS.

In the Expose game, the reason pips change to spades after their original talent depletes is this. Spades are wild cards. They are the Expose talent. They can unlock any of the words. The reasoning behind waiting until another talent depletes is this. It's easiest to tell a player how to play the game when there's only one way to play. 'Click on the tokens.'

There is a hell in this world and it is user testing. It's a terribly humbling and frustrating and necessary thing.

[HDL]

I liked Eleanor. I liked that just because she was in a wheelchair didn't make her a particularly nice person and she was willing to take advantage of her situation to get boys. I liked that you didn't have her cute and cuddly and weren't afraid to make her as manipulative as the rest of them. I didn't find her offensive at all. In fact I'd have found it offensive if the wheelchair girl was the one sweety cutey nicey in the game.

I don't think the mouseclicks were queued up, it's happened a few times to me now and I don't think I clicked more than I had to. It doesn't happen every time but it happens in enough games to make it annoying.

Is there any chance that you could have the music sorted so that it remembered the settings I choose last time? I slide the music down to minimum since there's no option to turn it off and every time I relaunch the game I need to fix that. There's no easy option to quit back to windows whilst I'm in the middle of a game either. Sometimes if real life intrudes I need to quit out of the whole game regardless of where I am and finishing the current mini-game I'm playing isn't always feasible.

Also is there a reason that one of my girls doesn't want to flirt with any of the boys? She just doesn't have the option for any of them.

[Musenik]

I don't think the mouseclicks were queued up, it's happened a few times to me now and I don't think I clicked more than I had to. It doesn't happen every time but it happens in enough games to make it annoying.

None of us here have ever seen that. So, please tell us everything you can about the problem. Maybe it's a PC only problem. We haven't done much PC testing. I'll look at the code with that trouble in mind.

Is there any chance that you could have the music sorted so that it remembered the settings I choose last time?

Sorry, the volume control was cobbled together a couple days before we released the demo. The game will ship able to remember the setting.

There's no easy option to quit back to windows whilst I'm in the middle of a game either. Sometimes if real life intrudes I need to quit out of the whole game regardless of where I am and finishing the current mini-game I'm playing isn't always feasible.

Actually, if you do quit, (cmd or ctrl Q), you can load from your 'last encounter'. There is an auto-save that is usually only an encounter or two away from the point of quit.

Also is there a reason that one of my girls doesn't want to flirt with any of the boys? She just doesn't have the option for any of them.

That wouldn't be Jean, by any chance, would it? :-) I wonder what the reason might be...

[HDL]

Oh! I've worked out what's happening with the taunting game. It just feels natural that after I've said my insult and they've given their response to click to acknowledge I've read the response. When I click then though it then means when the insults appear that it's selecting one for me. I've done it a few times and that seems to be the problem. Might want to look into it anyway since I'm probably not the only person who's going to be click-happy.

Thanks for the ctrl+q tip and heh yes the girl would be Jean so that explains a lot. I was just wondering.

[Infinite Element]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the first screenshot with Mildred, shouldn't the first word be "suffrage," not "sufferage"? And shouldn't it say "ARE all part of my plan ..."?

I feel like a grammar nazi :/

[Musenik]

Thanks Infinite Element,

I updated the screenshot.


HDL,

I'm glad I don't have to dig through code for a bug! But I understand the issue. I'll try to address it.

[Musenik]

Thanks to everyone who participated! The download links and the app have now expired.

Any last thoughts?