Music Scores?

[Firespirit]

I'm developing a game that has two scenes the user can move between and was wondering how many music scores would be required, so the player doesn't get tired of listening to the same piece of music.

The first scene is an action scene that would need some music in that style, and the other is a build scene where a more quiet style is needed.

So that would mean a minimum of two musical scores - but that would get tiresome rather quickly.

My instinct says at least 2-3 different scores per scene giving 6 in all plus possibly an intro sequence - but what are your experiences?

Money is of course also an issue - at 50$ per minute and 4 minutes per score this amounts to $1.400 dollars which is significant for something that was originally budgetted around 1000$ for the whole game.

[thegamedesigner]

Your right, spending almost one and a half times on just a single part would be stupid. I suggest you buy one of each track, and then keep working on other parts of the game. It will become clear during the many times you start it up to test/play some part, if the music becomes annoying.

Also, for the action part, I would suggest two tracks, one much shorter then the other, faster or heavier (based on if the music style is more techno or more like metal, you see what I mean, even if the music is classic) and use this second action track for certain times, mainly going in and out, so the music feels different. I find that the two times I really notice the music is when it starts, and when it ends.

[Firespirit]

Good point.

So you are talking about something like a 30 seconds opening, an 8 minute (looping) music score, and a short outro as well.

That could work - it would also reduce it to something like 18 minutes of music = $900. Then there's still $100 worth of stock sound effects left ;-)

Thanks

[NathanR]

Im facing the same issue right now as well. We have a large area where members can hang out and chat. What music to play in the background here? We dont want it to get annoying.

We decided to take a page from the WoW guy's book. We made music, but it fades in and plays, its about 5 minutes long, and then fades out again. Its surrounded by ambient sounds that fill the silence.

I also find that local musicians are often capable of making music for a lot cheaper than 50 dollars a minute, and most are happy to write songs for public release at a discount because it helps advertise them. Your mileage will vary, I have just had some very good luck in that area.

[cliffski]

what's wrong with stock music? at least that way you can hear what it will be like before you buy. I haven't commissioned music yet, maybe I will at some point, but I'm not 100% convinced it's worth the difference in cost.

[Firespirit]

I don't know why I didn't think of that actually...

Can you recommend some royalty free music sites? I can see that some have restrictions like maximum 5000 distributions (probably won't hit this limit though :-).

[NathanR]

www.sounddogs.com

Best library ever, and they are cheap as hell. No indie shop should be without them.

[Nexic]

Shockwave sound is very good. Have used Music Bakery before but honestly not too much in there suited to games.

It really depends on what type of music you want in your game and how big a role it plays. I've found that orchestral stuff is pretty rare or of low quality in most stock libararies so composed is the only real option.

For the original poster, either go with stock or get tracks in short 30 second loops. If you think about it longer music tracks will end up repeating a lot of the music anyway so often a loop sounds almost as good. You will also get 8x as many tracks for your money which will really help variety. Though just make sure the user doesn't hear the same 30 second track too many times in a row.

[GolfHacker]

I used Music Bakery (www.musicbakery.com (http://www.musicbakery.com)) for the snazzy jazz tracks in Fashion Cents.

I used Opuzz (www.opuzz.com (http://www.opuzz.com)) for our second game, Word Play.

[stmiller]

Yes you could have the composer make short ~10sec stems of music, say 8 or 9 different ones. Ones which work interchangeably. Then have the game play these back differently every time, in different orders. That way the music is always fresh and new, and you haven't spent all of your money on one long 4 min track that is always the same.

Like in Zelda Ocarina of Time, I believe(?)

[AnthemAudio]

There is nothing like having a score written specifically for your game. Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to just grab something from libraries that's close enough. And it's usually cheaper. Quality varies, but that's the same with composers as well.

Regarding randomizing song structures, it's a cinch for someone who knows how to do it and can edit seamlessly and write accordingly to be cut at intervals to be spliced randomly. I have done this probably hundreds of times for games. Well, dozens.

You write a song that can break up nicely in phrases (2-bar, 8-bar) with variations that aren't jarring or won't resolve in one beat. Then you bounce each section individually. Name them Track1_01, Track1_02, Track1_03 and so on. Take them into a two track editor (Sound Forge, Audition, etc.) and make sure they are seamless. That means editing to sample accuracy so there is no hiccup or gap.

Then you basically create a playlist randomizer (usually an .xml) that will only randomize within a set of tracks at a time. More advanced techniques can get you intros, choruses, and outros properly, so it's all feasible.

PM me if you need more info on this technique or want to commision tracks to these specs. I'm experienced!

Tony

[janwinnicki]

This is a kind of primitive sequencing. Go for multichannel :D

[AnthemAudio]

truthfully, I didn't want to go into anything more advanced. This would be the indie approach. ;)

Having enough experience in Wwise, FMOD, XACT I could give a tutorial on each one and several methods using each for this effect, but I truthfully don't hear anyone using much of these tools (except for those live arcade hopefuls using XACT!) on the indie boards.

Like I said, you can PM me for detailed info if it suits you.

Tony

[janwinnicki]

No, but thanks anyway :)

[Josh1billion]

You could take a dozen or two hours of work and make your own music if you have a little talent there. You can even compose some good tracks with Fruity Loops if you set your mind to it- I've made rap beats and stuff in FL in the past. There are other programs like MODPlug Tracker, which I haven't used but I've heard that it's very good.

Of course the drawback is time and effort... but if it's going to save you half a grand, it might very well be worth it... then again, if you don't happen to have any talent at all for music composition, it might not be. :D

Well, good luck either way with your game.

[RinkuHero]

How about public domain music, or creating simple remixes of them? A lot of commercial games did that at one time; Lemmings and Earthworm Jim come to mind, their entire soundtrack is from the public domain (usually classical), altered slightly with different instruments and tempo.

There's also a lot of blues, jazz, gospel, calypso, etc., from the early 20th century and late 19th century that's in the public domain. My current game uses some of those.

Of course, there's the problem of the player probably having heard the music before and recognizing it, but you can just use the more obscure stuff.

[Josh1billion]

How about public domain music, or creating simple remixes of them? A lot of commercial games did that at one time; Lemmings and Earthworm Jim come to mind, their entire soundtrack is from the public domain (usually classical), altered slightly with different instruments and tempo.

That's actually a very clever, excellent idea. I'll probably be putting this idea to use soon in my current project, thanks for the heads up. :D

[janwinnicki]

That's right, but watch out - arranging are copyrighted too, as far I remember :)

[sound app]

That's right, but watch out - arranging are copyrighted too, as far I remember :)


you can take a public domain song (70 years in most cases), arrange it and THEN your arrangement could be copyrighted...tricky, isn't ?

[janwinnicki]

This period depends of local law.

As author of an arrangement you become a co-author.

[janwinnicki]

PS: http://www.bemuso.com/musicbiz/musiccopyright.html#arearrangementscopyright

[magates]

another site to check out is www.cuepop.com - very cheap and a wide range of music. not just "typical" game music.

[Alex]

I'm developing a game that has two scenes the user can move between and was wondering how many music scores would be required, so the player doesn't get tired of listening to the same piece of music.

The first scene is an action scene that would need some music in that style, and the other is a build scene where a more quiet style is needed.

So that would mean a minimum of two musical scores - but that would get tiresome rather quickly.

My instinct says at least 2-3 different scores per scene giving 6 in all plus possibly an intro sequence - but what are your experiences?

Money is of course also an issue - at 50$ per minute and 4 minutes per score this amounts to $1.400 dollars which is significant for something that was originally budgetted around 1000$ for the whole game.

As far as getting some prototype music is concerned - I don't know what style or theme your game has but you can check out my website - www.soundportfolio.com, if you're interested in any of the music I have on there but you want something specific you can email me at alexp1@westnet.com.au. All of the examples on my website are Creative Commons licensed, meaning you can pretty much do whatever you want in exchange for credit, and at this stage I'm open to doing a couple of freebies to get my foot in the door so to speak.