JAM XM - criticism wanted!

[berserker]

Greetings everyone!

I am new here and I would like to present my game.
This is my first game, so it would be good if anobody could give me some feedback about it. I know there are many experienced developers here and I am eager to hear advices about game improvement from anyone.
Thanks.

Game Information:

JAM XM

JAM XM is a highly dynamical arcade racing game that brings you into the distant future to take part in the intergalactic racing tournament. Your goal is not just to race, but to destroy rivals who threaten your superiority with your car heavy weaponry, collect bonuses, and have fun on the journey. Between championships you can go to a mechanics bay to upgrade your car and improve your deadly arsenal.
Don???t hesitate to prove that you are truly the best racer in the galaxy!

Screenshots: 1 (http://www.alawar.com/upload/iblock/2bf722b4ace944a2d366ae2788ff755a.jpg) 2 (http://www.alawar.com/upload/iblock/657c141bed51c2c112628bb2e97f4640.jpg) 3 (http://www.alawar.com/upload/iblock/5dc4a82cd06ce83f3734d3d7ba22864d.jpg)

Download (http://www.alawar.com/download/JamXM.exe) (~15 mb)
________
CALIFORNIA MDECIAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES (http://california.dispensaries.org/)

[princec]

Can you play head to head over the LAN with it?

Cas :)

[tolik]

It looks like unfinished clone of Rock'n'Roll Racing and Death Rally.
Entire interface is more polished than boring gameplay.
Yawn.

[berserker]

Currenlty no, only split-screen 2 player mode is available.

Yaroslav.
________
Iolite Vaporizer Review (http://vaporizers.net/portable-vaporizers)

[berserker]

It looks like unfinished clone of Rock'n'Roll Racing and Death Rally.
Entire interface is more polished than boring gameplay.
Yawn.

Well, any ideas how to make gameplay less boring? :confused:
________
New Mexico Dispensary (http://newmexico.dispensaries.org/)

[princec]

Internet play :D

Cas :)

[tolik]

Well, any ideas how to make gameplay less boring? :confused:

If you are cloning RnR & DR, compare. If you can't see the differences, I can't help you.

[berserker]

If you are cloning RnR & DR, compare. If you can't see the differences, I can't help you.

Thank you. You've really helped me a lot.
________
BUY HOT BOX (http://www.vaporshop.com/hotbox-vaporizer.html)

[Chaster]

Wow,

Berserker said it's his FIRST game... Dude, cut him a little slack - how about being a little more helpful than "your game sucks - look at other games".. Sheesh..

My suggestions:

1) Can you make the cars a little more futuristic looking? Or at least, a little less like ummm, "econo boxes"? I want to drive something that looks badass! =)

2) I agree with Princec - this game is SCREAMING for internet (or at least LAN) play. Split screen is nice & all for those few people who are interested in PC split screen, but most PC users want internet/lan play if it's multiplayer...

Good luck!

Chaster

[Reactor]

Berserker, do you agree with the others that the gameplay is a little boring, or do think otherwise?

[tolik]

Can anybody name indie LAN (skip Orbz & Tanks) game? Do you expect every guy to buy the game in order to play?

[princec]

The Soldat model has proved remarkably successful.

Cas :)

[berserker]

Wow,

Berserker said it's his FIRST game... Dude, cut him a little slack - how about being a little more helpful than "your game sucks - look at other games".. Sheesh..

My suggestions:

1) Can you make the cars a little more futuristic looking? Or at least, a little less like ummm, "econo boxes"? I want to drive something that looks badass! =)

2) I agree with Princec - this game is SCREAMING for internet (or at least LAN) play. Split screen is nice & all for those few people who are interested in PC split screen, but most PC users want internet/lan play if it's multiplayer...

Good luck!

Chaster

Thanks for understanding,
It is a good idea to make a futuristic look & feel for the cars, but
this is probably a feature for the future updates. At this moment
I want to polish gameplay, because currently it is lacking and I am
not sure what should I improve.

LAN multiplayer feature is interesting, but I am not sure that it is
easy to implement now. I think it must be considered at design
time, not when coding is done. Nevertheless I will keep it in mind.
________
Suzuki bandit series (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_Bandit_Series)

[berserker]

Berserker, do you agree with the others that the gameplay is a little boring, or do think otherwise?

Yes I agree. I know the main problem is gameplay, but it is not that simple for me to figure out what to improve. Maybe someone with experience can see it without effort, but I cannot understand the problem easily. That's why I started this topic. I hoped that some people with experience could give me some hints.
________
PREMIUM V ENGINE (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/GM_Premium_V_engine)

[Chaster]

Can anybody name indie LAN (skip Orbz & Tanks) game? Do you expect every guy to buy the game in order to play?


:confused:

I think I am misunderstanding your post....

Aren't must of us expecting/hoping for people to buy our games?

And haven't you heard of a thing called a "LAN PARTY"? LAN play for multiplayer games is very popular... I don't see what "indie" or "non-indie" has to do with it...?

[Reactor]

I agree with Chaster on the last post...

Anyway, about the gameplay... I'm currently unable to download the game at the moment (just trying to save the ol' bandwidth for a while) but generally what I've seen is people struggling to try and make games with fairly boring gameplay, better. But, what most people miss is that games just shouldn't be better than average- they should be fantastic. As Jeff Vogel of Spiderweb software says, "Your game has to be fun. Not just "kind of fun." Really fun. Fun enough to get a person to pull a credit card out of his/her wallet and give you the number." I realise that you want JAM XM to be more fun (as everyone wants their games to be) but ultimately, what's fun starts with you.

For instance, what was the last thing you played that was really fun? What car game had you ready to pull out your wallet and throw it at the developer, because it was so entertaining, or fun? If I were in your shoes, I'd just spend some quiet time thinking back to all of the ultra fun games you've played in your lifetime, and start designing JAM XM to have everything in it you want it to have, so that you can have a really fun time with it. Again, not just a "fun" time, but a really fun time! You like bigger explosions? Put it in. You like faster cars? Put it in. Does it make you laugh when cars drive all funny across the road? Find an excuse to put it in.

Whenever I think up a game, I just think, "What would be cool to see... what would be plain ol' fun?" If I have a craving for 30 cars hitting jumps together, just to get trashed in a pit, I'll base a game on it, because I think it'll be fun. Lastly, don't settle for average. If an idea seems a little too average, do something to it to make it even more fun, or ditch it completely. Anyway, that's what I would do :) Have fun with it.

[techbear]

I've downloaded and played the game, and here are my thoughts.

The UI is very pretty, but a bit clumsy and inelegent. It seems as though each screen has too little information; perhaps you could consolidate some parts of the UI.

Your UI is also very static. It's pretty, but (aside from slide-in and slide-out) it doesn't move, pulsate, vibrate, etc. I know I just talked about your UI being overwraught, but just adding a bit more movement might be good.

I started on the easiest mode, which I quickly found was way too easy for me. Now it's not very clear how to go back and start over at a higher difficulty level.

The first, square track is quite boring. In fact, all the tracks I've seen are pretty boring. They've got to be bigger and twistier. Also, secret (unmarked) short cuts would go a LONG way towards making them more interesting. Also terrain differences (ice, rain, dirt). I recognize that I was always playing on the easy level with the beginner car, and the hard levels with faster cars and more challenging opponents might demand simpler tracks with longer straights, but remember that new players will see the same things I did, when making a purchasing decision.

You only have 3 cars??? That's a bad first impression. But wait, you can actually customize the cars with lots of different options that change the car visibly! That's cool! Play that up! Make sure the user knows that within SECONDS of loading the demo. Tell them you have the same customizability as Need For Speed: Underground.

On your launcher, you can manage Profiles. That's great, but I'm confused as to what that is. Just user interface settings? Or game data (wins and losses) too? Is it important when I just want to get racing?

The voiceover (which I assume is yours) has an interesting accent. That's not a bad thing at all! I think you could play that up. Give the announcer an alien face and more personality. SSX, GTA, and other games have an almost constant "radio" audio track. I realize that's too much data for a demo release. I'm just suggesting giving the announcer a bit more personality.

Your game ALT-TABs just fine. Great! HOWEVER, it doesn't pause when it's tabbed out. Bad. I'm in the lead, I alt-tab out, and when I come back, I've lost!

I like the little arrow in front of my car that shows its facing with greater fidelity than the actual car art. That's a nice touch.

On the screen where you can choose which of three seasons to participate in, it also shows your standing in each of the races in the selected season. However, that interface is confusing. I didn't realise what those numbers meant for a long time. Perhaps a little more explanitory text or something.

I am a MAJOR fan of the old Death Rally game, because the meta-game was MUCH deeper than simple racing. It had resource management, upgrading your car and such, but it also had distinctive opponents that you could craftily choose to meet on tracks that you favored. It also did a great job of serving the Law of Small Jobs*. Your game locks me into a season with a simple, linear progression of tracks.

Your game looks great, very professional, nice art, acceptable car physics. You've spent a lot of time on it, and it shows. There's a big market for this type of game; my old (free) space racing game proved very popular, especially in Europe. I hope JAM XM makes tons of money for you!



* The Law of Small Jobs states that (all other things being equal) 40 small races are better than 10 big races. Why? Because small levels cultivate the "just one more try" addictiveness we all seek to add to our games. Also, failure to win a big, complex level is much more painful and off-putting to a player than failure at a small, simple level.

[Sirrus]

Wanted to comment, that even though it is not my own game, I think your advice Techbear is perfect.

We need to have more of this kind of great input for a game.

[3dben]

* The Law of Small Jobs states that (all other things being equal) 40 small races are better than 10 big races. Why? Because small levels cultivate the "just one more try" addictiveness we all seek to add to our games. Also, failure to win a big, complex level is much more painful and off-putting to a player than failure at a small, simple level.

For me, this is what made RC Pro Am on the NES so fun. It was a very simple game, but had me hooked for hours at a time. You might consider taking a look at that one, its gameplay still holds up today.

-=ben

[berserker]

Thank you, Techbear, you comment is outstanding!


Your UI is also very static. It's pretty, but (aside from slide-in and slide-out) it doesn't move, pulsate, vibrate, etc. I know I just talked about your UI being overwraught, but just adding a bit more movement might be good.
I am going to highlight some key UI elements with pulsing flash.


I started on the easiest mode, which I quickly found was way too easy for me. Now it's not very clear how to go back and start over at a higher difficulty level.
You should go back to main menu and select the game with moe difficult mode.
Probably not very clear, I should think on it.


The first, square track is quite boring. In fact, all the tracks I've seen are pretty boring. They've got to be bigger and twistier. Also, secret (unmarked) short cuts would go a LONG way towards making them more interesting. Also terrain differences (ice, rain, dirt). I recognize that I was always playing on the easy level with the beginner car, and the hard levels with faster cars and more challenging opponents might demand simpler tracks with longer straights, but remember that new players will see the same things I did, when making a purchasing decision.
I thought first track must be square to allow player get used with game, later on tracks becoming more complicated.
Is it that bad to make first track as simple as possible?
Secret shortcuts - a brilliant idea! :)


On your launcher, you can manage Profiles. That's great, but I'm confused as to what that is. Just user interface settings? Or game data (wins and losses) too? Is it important when I just want to get racing?
Profile contains game data: wins and loses, current race status, unlocked items, upgrades, money, etc.
Probably I should add some explanation in loader.


The voiceover (which I assume is yours) has an interesting accent.
No, it's not mine :) Publisher helped me with voiceover.


Your game ALT-TABs just fine. Great! HOWEVER, it doesn't pause when it's tabbed out. Bad. I'm in the lead, I alt-tab out, and when I come back, I've lost!
I've totally forgotten about this! Thanks for riminding.


I am a MAJOR fan of the old Death Rally game, because the meta-game was MUCH deeper than simple racing. It had resource management, upgrading your car and such, but it also had distinctive opponents that you could craftily choose to meet on tracks that you favored. It also did a great job of serving the Law of Small Jobs*. Your game locks me into a season with a simple, linear progression of tracks.
Unfortunately I haven't played Death Rally :( Undoubtly I have missed a lot, but it just hangs on my Windows XP :(
I've created JAM XM as Rock'N'Roll Racing remake, and this is where big part of gameplay issues from.


Your game looks great, very professional, nice art, acceptable car physics. You've spent a lot of time on it, and it shows. There's a big market for this type of game; my old (free) space racing game proved very popular, especially in Europe. I hope JAM XM makes tons of money for you!
Thanks! This sounds encouraging, but currently sales are very low, despite the fact that game is placed on
website with a big number of visitors (www.alawar.com - that is publisher I am dealing with). That is why I
am so concerned about polishing this game, especially it's gameplay.
By the way, can you give me a link to your space racing game?


* The Law of Small Jobs states that (all other things being equal) 40 small races are better than 10 big races. Why? Because small levels cultivate the "just one more try" addictiveness we all seek to add to our games. Also, failure to win a big, complex level is much more painful and off-putting to a player than failure at a small, simple level.
Can you explain this regarding to JAM XM? Does it serves this law or not?

Thanks.
________
FORD CX HISTORY (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_CX)

[tolik]

Oh man, just copying the outlook idea of RnR will not give you any advantage. You need to copy the gameplay. Since you came so far, try to get original car speeds and original track widths/lengths. Now, make them a bit different (eg multiply by 1.2). You'll get the original fun factor of RnR and from here you'll be able to add more stuff of your own. Try to gather all the parameters from original game, including the amount of bonuses per track, I see you have dozens of them and they sure need to be balanced.

Your issues doesn't come from RnR, your issues come from incomplete RnR understanding. Polish your analysis by checking more games of the same genre. I can't imagine how someone can blindly copy another game without knowing the entire genre...

If this doesn't help you, you should uninstall WindowsXP.

[MrPhil]

Food for thought, Garage Games' Torque (http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1) includes network code that has a solid reputation. This might be enough to jump start the LAN Party mode. They also sell a network library under the name TNL (http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=27). It's more expensive, but I'm sure is easier to use.


In less than an hour, you can have a minimal TNL implementation up and running in your game or network product

[berserker]

For me, this is what made RC Pro Am on the NES so fun. It was a very simple game, but had me hooked for hours at a time. You might consider taking a look at that one, its gameplay still holds up today.

-=ben

Thanks for hint. I looked at RC Pro Am 1&2 and couple of ideas came to my mind.
________
Launch Box (http://www.vaporshop.com/mflb-vaporizer.html)

[berserker]

Oh man, just copying the outlook idea of RnR will not give you any advantage. You need to copy the gameplay. Since you came so far, try to get original car speeds and original track widths/lengths. Now, make them a bit different (eg multiply by 1.2). You'll get the original fun factor of RnR and from here you'll be able to add more stuff of your own. Try to gather all the parameters from original game, including the amount of bonuses per track, I see you have dozens of them and they sure need to be balanced.

Thanks Anatoly,

I've done as you described. The problem was that my vision was completely subjective and I lacked a vision from aside.
Now as I am gathering different feedback, some things become clear to me.


Your issues doesn't come from RnR, your issues come from incomplete RnR understanding. Polish your analysis by checking more games of the same genre. I can't imagine how someone can blindly copy another game without knowing the entire genre...

By the way, what game do you know, that would fall into this genre.


If this doesn't help you, you should uninstall WindowsXP.

In another life perhaps :)
________
Museum (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Museum)

[techbear]

Wow! Since I stopped serving Astro Rally (my free space racer), it's kinda hard to find. Here's a link:

http://yukle.superonline.com/download.aspx?pid=55&kid=166

Have fun!

[tolik]

Take a look at "Biker Mice from Mars" on SNES, Death Rally and other games, I remember one was called Nitro Racer (PC) but I'm not 100% sure... There was also a great game on NES involving the races on water and other surfaces, it was very dynamic and fast, can't remember this one :(

[3dben]

There was also a great game on NES involving the races on water and other surfaces, it was very dynamic and fast, can't remember this one :(

Maybe Micro Machines?

[Mike Wiering]

I just tried the game and also chose the first easy mode which was way too easy. In the third level a hurricane made the car completely uncontrollable. That's fine for a while, but after waiting for my car to be blown up three times, I just decided to quit. Later I wanted to try a harder level, but the game crashed when I tried to select the first season (something in main.exe). While uninstalling, the uninstall program crashed too, so I had to remove the files myself (BTW: you really have a lot of small files there, according to an old program the DATA directory alone uses 160 Mb, although I don't know if Windows XP's file system still works in the same way. Anyway, it's usually better to put lots of small files into one big one, that would probably also make the game load faster).

I think you should make the easy mode less easy and add a little variation to the tracks (not complete new graphics, but try different colors/lighting/weather/etc), so that every track 'feels' different.

BTW: Try running Death Rally in DOSBox (http://dosbox.sf.net/)

[berserker]

I just tried the game and also chose the first easy mode which was way too easy. In the third level a hurricane made the car completely uncontrollable. That's fine for a while, but after waiting for my car to be blown up three times, I just decided to quit.
Uhm, what do you mean "hurricane made the car completely uncontrollable"?
Are you talking about oil puddles that make your car spinning?



Later I wanted to try a harder level, but the game crashed when I tried to select the first season (something in main.exe).

Can you send me files in the data\profiles folder to yaroslav {at} enkord.com?



I think you should make the easy mode less easy and add a little variation to the tracks (not complete new graphics, but try different colors/lighting/weather/etc), so that every track 'feels' different.
Thank you for your comment.



BTW: Try running Death Rally in DOSBox (http://dosbox.sf.net/)
It is a slideshow on my Athlon XP 2500+
________
Xtube (http://www.fucktube.com/)

[Dan MacDonald]

I loved rock'n'roll racing, probably one of my all time favorite SNES racing games.

"The stage is set, the green flag drops!"

The commentator was really great...

the other thing that made that game great was you could actually feel a difference in how your car handeled after each upgrade. Engine's boosted your speed an aceleration, tires made you slip less on the corners, shocks made you recover from jumps faster and loose less speed, you could upgrade your car's armor and weapons. That game was just a blast, no doubt about it :)

[Mike Wiering]

Uhm, what do you mean "hurricane made the car completely uncontrollable"?
Are you talking about oil puddles that make your car spinning? Could be, or a tornado, I don't know. It makes your car spin and there's nothing you can do. Other cars past with a tornado around them too.


Can you send me files in the data\profiles folder to yaroslav {at} enkord.com? Sorry, I already deleted the entire directory.


It is a slideshow on my Athlon XP 2500+ It starts at a very low speed. You can change it with Ctrl+F11/F12.

[luggage]

Haven't downloaded it yet but as a suggestion for the profile situation...

Call it a "license" and get the player to drive a simple (and short) tutorial to qualify for it. Just driving through a set of cones and stopping in the box might be enough.

Don't have the shortcuts too secret, make it a risk\reward situation. ie, say you have a 90 degree corner, make a short cut across the corner but it's half the width of the normal track. Do you play it safe and go the long way or try and save a bit of time?

Super Sprint used to have gates that opened and closed, these worked really well.

Dang, now I'm going to have to download and play it now. Will post again a bit later with some more info.

Scott

[luggage]

I've just had a game and it is indeed very bland.

* menu is tidy but it feels complicated, I didn't quite know what was going on at any one time.

* tracks were quite dull. To fix this try
- making corners that aren't just 90 degree bends.
- varying the track texture add sections of sand, grass, tarmac, water
- ramps and jumps
- vary the height so you can have bridges
- vary the scenery a bit more

* handling was a bit bland. You could just drive round the track without giving much thought to it. Make it more slidy, quicker.

* ai was a bit linear, I only player rookie but they were all driving in the same line end to end. It didn't feel like it was 4 racers on a track

* more angles for the cars. It feels and looks a bit odd to have a car with not enough angles of rotation. So I'm driving at 30 degrees but pointing up. If it's a problem with size then think about making the cars black & white and colouring them in code when it's first run.

That should give you enough to get on with. Try playing Super Sprint if you can get hold of it. Was my favourite game of this type and would give you a good place to get the basics.

[lowemark]

My thoughts on the game:

Way to easy, I won gold medal in every single race in the demo version the first time I tried the game.

No motivation to upgrade your car or to buy new weapons, as i never had to use any weapons to win all races and hell i don't think i even upgraded my car anything either.

The computer controlled card did not use the shortcuts.

Mostly really boring tracks, i mean come on, how fun is a squared race track? Even in the later levels the tracks seemed boring.

Did'nt like that the flying cars (or whatever) in the menu reseted their position when you clicked on something.

Did not like the stearing of the car, it felt to slow, the car speed was really slow also, you should speed this up a bit (the car might go faster if you upgrade it but since i did'nt feel the need to do this i never tried it).

Really slow gameplay, no action (probably becuse the computer cars was so far behind me all the time).

Pretty nice graphical style though :) (but maybe a bit repetative at times)

My advice: play R.c Pro am racing on the NES or Ignition on the PC (old game created by UDS from Sweden) to get a feeling how a good (fun) racing game should feel like.

But with faster gameplay, more action, better tracks, smarter AI and better car handling, this game could be fun to play, as it is right now I personally do not think that it is a fun game to play...

Bottom line: I really think you should have fun when you play a game, with this game i did not have fun.

[berserker]

My thoughts on the game:
Way to easy, I won gold medal in every single race in the demo version the first time I tried the game.

You probable selected rookie difficulty. If the game was too easy on warrior difficulty, then you are truly hardcore gamer.



Mostly really boring tracks, i mean come on, how fun is a squared race track? Even in the later levels the tracks seemed boring.

I am working on adding diversity to tracks now.



Did not like the stearing of the car, it felt to slow, the car speed was really slow also, you should speed this up a bit (the car might go faster if you upgrade it but since i did'nt feel the need to do this i never tried it).

Well, probably I should increase speed, thanks.



My advice: play R.c Pro am racing on the NES or Ignition on the PC (old game created by UDS from Sweden) to get a feeling how a good (fun) racing game should feel like.

Yes, I've tried both of RC Pro AM games as I was advised by 3dben earlier and it gave me some ideas.


Thanks everybody for your feedback.
I had to release this game in its current form to hear objective comments like all of you commented it. Now more or less I do know what to improve and I am going to do it.
________
Toyota hilux (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Hilux)

[EpicBoy]

Depending on your target market, you should temper the feedback here with feedback from casual gamers (wives, girlfriends, non-gamers, etc). The people who frequent these boards tend to be a little jaded and hardcore ... the feedback is good, but it's not always 100% applicable to your target market. :)

[Sunshine]

Hey! Just wanted to throw my 2 cents into the horses' mouth before I continue to beat it some more.

I actually liked the graphics, there's a great cohesive 'plasticy' feel to them. Nice planet renders, and the starfield was above par also. And I am a big fan of Mad-Max so I thought it was pretty cool.

!!HOWEVER!!! There was an incredibly annoying bug in which the car turns so slowly that I could not turn around the corners and had to smash into the wall for several yards before it would turn enough to go straight. I could not find in the options a place to set the sensitivity of the controlls.

So...What's up with that? :confused:

[berserker]

Sunshine,

You can't set sesitivity of the handling. It will be increased as you buy handling upgrades for your car.
Anyway, version 1.1 of the game with MAJOR gameplay improvements is coming real soon. Here is brief list of changes:

- Major gameplay improvements: gameplay is faster and diverse, controls are better.
- Totally new tracks with sand, water, dirt, rough terrain, and more
- Secret shortcuts and passages!
- Interactive scenery
- In-place speed boosters and bouncers
- More precise car animation
- More visual customization of your car
- Game interface is simpler and more user-friendly
- Game balance improved
- Fixed lot of bugs

When I will be done with it I will probably start a new thread on this forum.

BTW, what is Mad-Max?
________
Suzuki rv125 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_RV125)

[berserker]

Thanks to everybody, who wrote some lines.
Please post further comments in this topic (http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?p=13260#post13260)
________
Wesley p. dahlberg (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Wesley_P._Dahlberg)