Sexyapp (Popcap framework) verses HGE (Haaf)

[Uhfgood]

Can anyone point me to a thread or at least, enumerate some of the points (pros and cons) of both apis?

Currently using SexyApp for some stuff, but i'm looking at HGE and it looks like it would be really good too. Is there some things that one does easier or better?

Thanks.

[countzero]

I like both SexyApp and HGE.

HGE is HW (DX8) accelerated only, and it is small, so it is easy to understand its pipeline, then to enhance it.

SexyApp is HW (DX7) accelerated too, but is has lots of outdated SW accelerated code (IMHO), so it is bigger, but it has more good UI stuff.

[Uhfgood]

Thanks for replying.

Yeah I know SexyApp has software fallback. and I am using the gui stuff.

Anybody else come up with anything?

[Pyabo]

Here's the best piece of advice anyone could possibly give you with regards to PopCap vs. HGE:

Just pick one. And stick with it.

[mot]

Just pick one. And stick with it.

And accept the fact that you're losing a significant part of your potential audience because you don't have a Mac version of your game.

[princec]

Yeah, about half, last time I checked.

Cas :)

[Davaris]

Someone was talking about doing a mac port of the Popcap Framework. They siad it would only take them a week full time, but nothing was finished.

[Uhfgood]

Oh don't give me that BS. Some things in the framework seem like a chore, but probably more because I don't know much about oop. Still looking for easier ways for stuff. I know that HGE has a particle editor and the code can call up and run the presets, so it has a few things I think, that you have to do yourself in the popcap framework.

If you can suggest a decent framework, that's free that works with the mac as well as pc, then i'll be glad to give it a try. And don't say SDL because SDL is more lowlevel. Maybe a framework based on SDL. And I am thinking about learning SDL in the future, but other than that. Always looking for the easy and free way :-)

Keith

[vjvj]

If you can suggest a decent framework, that's free that works with the mac as well as pc, then i'll be glad to give it a try. And don't say SDL because SDL is more lowlevel. Maybe a framework based on SDL. And I am thinking about learning SDL in the future, but other than that. Always looking for the easy and free way :-)

Keith

Why not just use PTK?

I can understand wanting something free, but throwing away the entire Mac market just to save $200 sounds silly to me... Forest? Trees? :)

[Bad Sector]

One of these days, i'm gonna make you a present: Nigma. Which in fact is Nikwi (http://www.slashstone.com/more/nikwi)'s sources, minus the game specific parts, minus the crappy code (slashtdp), plus the latest version of UndeadScript (Nigma=Nikwi's Game Machine).

It's based on SDL, works under Windows and under Linux. I'm 99% sure that it'll work under Intel Macs too. I don't know about PowerPC-based Macs, though. I don't have access to any PowerPC (or big-endian, in general) machine and if anyone knows any means to test how my code works on such machines, please tell.

Still, it isn't as generic as other frameworks, but that's what i can give now :-).

[luggage]

Why not wrap HGE or Popcap's framework and then write your own Mac version? It's a simple enough thing to do.

[Uhfgood]

Why not just use PTK?

I can understand wanting something free, but throwing away the entire Mac market just to save $200 sounds silly to me... Forest? Trees?

I think some people don't understand the concept of "I HAVE NO MONEY!"

This is not just a figure of speech.

[luggage]

I think you're possibly asking for a bit much. If there was this free engine, cross platform, great support, good examples and comprehensive documentation - why would anyone be using anything else?

Why not just use Popcap's to get yourself going, finish a game and sell it. You can then use the proceeds from your first game to help fund your second. Further to that, surely you can afford $200 if you're serious about game development?

[Coyote]

I tend to agree with Luggage, here. Pick your library / SDK / engine and make the best freaking game you can with it. Don't get hung up on specifics too much. Then you can take the proceeds and use 'em to finance the next game.

One point of note with the PopCap library - it includes sound libraries that you will have to pay a license fee for ($100, I think, if you use FMOD --- I BELIEVE that's total indie cost, not per-title). Or you'll have to add your own sound engine.

[Uhfgood]

Sexyapp uses BASS you can use fmod, but bass is by default, and it's about 100 Euros which translates to about the same in us dollars... of course it's shareware license is unlimited, as far as I could understand what it said. This is partly why i'm still looking. I am using it for now, but until I can find something else, I have to stick with it.

[luggage]

Can you just ditch the BASS sections and use Audiere instead?

[Pallav Nawani]

Can you just ditch the BASS sections and use Audiere instead?
Indeed you can. I did just that with my latest game. There is a long thread in PopCap's developer forums about using audiere. In short, use audiere for the music, and use PopCap's built in DxSoundManager (that can play both .ogg and .wav files) for sound effects.

[HalfLucifer]

Indeed you can. I did just that with my latest game. There is a long thread in PopCap's developer forums about using audiere. In short, use audiere for the music, and use PopCap's built in DxSoundManager (that can play both .ogg and .wav files) for sound effects.

Audiere looks pretty good as a free audio library.
I'm wondering if Audiere can run on MacOSX ?
The official site doesn't tell.

[Bad Sector]

MikMod (http://sourceforge.net/projects/mikmod/) :-)
Mikmod is a module player and library supporting many formats, including mod, s3m, it, and xm. Originally a player for MS-DOS, MikMod has been ported to other platforms, such as Unix, Macintosh, BeOS, and Java(!!)

Btw, for mac, use this patch (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1514954&group_id=40531&atid=428227) (makes the library work on non-Altivec and Intel CPUs).

[vjvj]

I think some people don't understand the concept of "I HAVE NO MONEY!"

This is not just a figure of speech.

You can download PTK and develop your game in its entirety for free. You only need to pay the license when you ship your game.

Or you can just use Popcap like others suggested. Then pay (I'm assuming more) later for a Mac port :)

If I were you though, I'd try to find that $200. I'm far from an optimist, but I think most of us could recover $200 in Mac sales rather quickly...

Anyway, I think your options have been pretty much laid out at this point. It's up to you; let us know what you end up deciding to do.

[Uhfgood]

I may look into Audiere -- although it is lgpl'd, but then again, I could probably just use a dll (well it looks like it has a dll) so I don't have to lgpl any of my source.

But then I could also do mikmod which is lgpl too as far as i can remember. It seems Audiere has better support.

I'll probably stick with SexyApp and will look into Audiere, however this doesn't really answer the question for which I originally posted.

I originally posted for someone who may have been experienced in both, to help point me to a thread or enumerate the pros and cons of both SexyApp and HGE.

Like I said I am using SexyApp right now, and will continue to for a while. However HGE looks good too. Does anyone know of any threads comparing them, or have any experience with both, who could give me some idea. Maybe you used one over the other for whatever reasons, of which I would like to know.

Thank you.

[Pallav Nawani]

Audiere looks pretty good as a free audio library. I'm wondering if Audiere can run on MacOSX ? The official site doesn't tell.
I don't know either, but I didn't worry about it, as I was using PopCap framework, and that pretty much rules out a mac port.

I may look into Audiere -- although it is lgpl'd, but then again, I could probably just use a dll.

You can use it as a dll without LGPLing your own code. This is the main reason why the LGPL license was created.

[Jason Chong]

The problem with SexyApp is that it is using an old version of Bass, and you can't update it with the latest even if you paid for the license.

There's an API change/difference between what's used in SexyApp's bass and the current version.

[Uhfgood]

I don't know if that's really a problem, but thanks for replying. By the way, Audiere isn't really an option now for me. I don't know enough about sexyapp to integrate the dll into it. The guy that was doing that somehow just stopped posting a week ago, and his file is not able to be downloaded at the moment.

[luggage]

It took me about 10 minutes to get Audiere working. I can't see why you'd really need to integrate it into SexyApp itself.

[Uhfgood]

I suppose you're right, however I am using the sexyapp audio facilities, that what I was thinking about. Although I doubt it would be hard to convert :-)

Thanks again