Need some starting advice

[Blue Falkon]

I posted here a while ago when I was more ignorant on the matter, but I have taken a few of the necessary steps needed to create a functioning game company. Let me give some specs on the situation.

-Company registered under Nova Scotia, Canada. It is sole-proprietorship and has unlimited liability.

-Trying to incorporate company but the expense is out of my hands at the moment.

-Income shared with girlfriend is around $1,000 a month, about $140 of that is discretionary income.

-I'm 18 years old.

Alright. Now, what I'm planning on doing is grabbing a loan from a students in business program or the CBDC (Community Business Development Corporations) of Canada. I was talking to an executive director at the CBDC where I live and he told about making a business plan (which I'm currently doing) and try to put in a specific ratio of income to the company, then come to them for a loan.

I've dropped the scale of game complexity largely. I've decided to go with making a couple puzzle games and small adventure games that could possibly generate a small percentage of income for the company. However, I'm terrible at programming and I can only do some of the graphics. So, I have a volunteer graphics artist helping out and I need a programmer.

How much would a programmer typically go for? I'm not an expert at time estimations but the game's complexity level is so small that it would probably only take a week or a less to make the editors for each game. An expert could probably do it in 6 hours or less. That might be ignorance talking again but I can't see why it would take very long as they're editor-based games and have minor physics.

Lately I'm tight on budget because my job really sucks and I'm in the process of getting another one.

Am I able to get some advice on what to do for these two games? Perhaps how I would hire some people, how I would market the game, how much would it possibly cost in total for both games, etc.

Sorry if this post is a bit sketchy, I'm multitasking a lot right now and my mind is in many places. Please ask questions if you have any.

[Polycount Productions]

Getting in debt at the age of 18 to found a puzzle game making company sounds quite risky to me. If the game is fast to make, why not consider doing it part time? Or working more some time to get some savings?

Don't get me wrong... I don't want to kill your enthusiasm, and your idea could work - I don't know.

Regarding "making small game" or "would be fast to do" I recommend checking out this (http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/03/19/what-almost-finished-really-means/). I've been making a "small game" now roughly 7ish months or so, and it was initially planned to be done in 2-3 months. I'm considering different paths now to get something out - but "making something fast" is not the best ways to go.

here (http://www.gameproducer.net/category/sales-statistics/) are some sales statistics which might help you - but you must realize that there's plenty of more in selling than simply making game and waiting for the cash to come.

Whatever route you'll take - good luck with it!

[theshadowfan]

Keep your job and make games part-time. As it appears that you've never created a game before, even a small puzzle game may take you a while to complete and sell. You want to build up a reputation for your company as well as get as many quality games onto the market as fast as you can. Even if they don't sell that many units it is better to have credibility then not. Even if they do not sell well you have your day-time job to back up any expenses.

[Blue Falkon]

I'm in college for business administration full-time (half the day during the weekdays) and my job is part-time. I live with my girlfriend so we both share expenses and she makes more money than I do. My job is switching over to where she works so I can get more hours at work because my job is pitiful... I make a lousy $240.00 or so every two weeks, while she makes around $350.00.

My ultimate goal for the company is being a recognized third-party RPG developer for consoles like the Nintendo and Playstation. Crazy goal, will take a long time, but that's why I'm starting small and independent. The games we're making right now are like... well, what you'd see on Windows 3.1 or something. The graphics will be good, but the complexity would be minimal. Think of games like Chip's Challenge, The Adventures of Robbo, Heartlight, what have you.

I still have a lot to learn, but I'm not spending half my life waiting. I've always been that way, and I'm getting as much support as I can.

[theshadowfan]

I'm in college for business administration full-time (half the day during the weekdays) and my job is part-time.
So what would you do on the game - producing or do you know how to program or do artwork?

My ultimate goal for the company is being a recognized third-party RPG developer for consoles like the Nintendo and Playstation. Crazy goal, will take a long time, but that's why I'm starting small and independent.
Yeah that's the way to go.

I still have a lot to learn, but I'm not spending half my life waiting. I've always been that way, and I'm getting as much support as I can.

I wouldn't wait either, but experience goes a long way. Have you thought about getting a job at a game developer before going full-time into your own company? Do you already have people working for you?

[oNyx]

>I'm not an expert at time estimations but the game's complexity level is so small that
>it would probably only take a week or a less to make the editors for each game. An
>expert could probably do it in 6 hours or less.

Depends on the tools, experience and how userfriendly the editors are supposed to be. With a fully scripted framework and some knowledge you can of course create a prototype and some shortcut driven editor within a few hours. With compilation and hard restarts of the application it takes several times as long and if you use some non managed language, you can multipy that with a factor of 2 to 5.

But then you're only at that magical 80% mark and there are many things left to do. Menu, options, transitions, effects, extra animations, particles, a bugfix here, a bugfix there, hud changes, gameplay changes/additions...

However, I think that you should do the programming yourself. With some dedication every average person can write a simple 2d game. Its not rocket science. And unlike 3d and/or physics it doesnt require much math and gray matter. I mean... even I can do it.

If you decide to give it a shot, take a look at blitz for example. It covers most of the boilerplate code with its api and the syntax as rather simple.

[ragdollsoft]

Getting into debt to pay other people to make a game for you is a terrible idea if you're not 100% sure that you'll manage to sell it.

[electronicStar]

How much would a programmer typically go for? I'm not an expert at time estimations but the game's complexity level is so small that it would probably only take a week or a less to make the editors for each game. An expert could probably do it in 6 hours or less. That might be ignorance talking again but I can't see why it would take very long as they're editor-based games and have minor physics.

I think you should start overestimating your deadlines or you'll have some bad surprises.

I think you took a lot of risks starting this enterprise without any experience , but well you seem to be decided and maybe you can have your chance as a manager. Just make sure you don't go into too much debt as such a young age, and know when to stop.

Judging from your previous threads, you are not specially expert at doing the games, so you should look for people to hire. Only the bare minimum don't try to start with ten artists and twenty coders :) Maybe one coder, one artist and a marketing/Misc guy.
And look for the good people for the job. Not "friends" or "cool people to hang with".
Is your girlfriend having a salary? What are your roles, both, in the company?

Being a young entrepreneur can be a good point to attract media attention but you have to be very serious. Also I'm wondering if casual games are the good idea. Since you have chosen the difficult path of starting a company maybe you could go a bit further and find someone who can code the next Crytek or Source game engine...You would attract more attention this way that with a company about casual games. Attracting attention could mean attracting people that would be able to help you on the way.
Generally people do casual games because they are independant and have no or very little funds and no salary and casual games can be done "on the side".
(I'm just throwing suggestions, don't follow my ideas blindly...)

Good luck.

[abutov]

It's like watching a race car driver getting into a car knowing that there are spike strips 2 miles down the road...

Listen. I've worked on Wall Street for years, and had to manage projects and estimate project timelines with people in my office, people across town, and people on different continents. I think I was in the ball park *maybe* 30% of the time. You can pad the times, and think that will save you, and still you'll wind up going over on your estimates, by a margin larger than you have thought.

And believe me, it's no easier to manage one or two artists for a small puzzle game. The more things you can do yourself, the easier it would be for you to start out. If you're not sure about your programming abilities, learn while coding your first small game, otherwise, you're 18 years old, and managing an experienced coder and an experienced artist will burn you out. At your age and your experience, you wouldn't be able to determine what a good programmer is anyway, and you'll probably wind up hiring a mediocre one and having a lot of trouble down the line.

At the end of that whole process, after the game took months (years?) longer than you've anticipated it would take, you'll be thousands in debt, and you will be miserable.

Starting your first business should be an exciting experience filled with anticipation, and feelings of personal accomplishment (and horror of a certain kind :) ).

I wish you all the best...but you should slow down a bit. At 18, you're still a child ( OK...relatively speaking :) ), but you're making financial decisions which might hurt you far into adulthood.


Of course, I'm not an expert, and if you have a breakout hit with your first game without having written one line of code yourself, and you become a millionaire, feel free to send me a slew of flames.

- Cheers
- Andrey

[Sybixsus]

I think you should have paid more attention to what RicardoC was trying to tell you in your previous thread instead of telling him to shut up because you didn't want to hear the truth.

You've toned down the ambitions to a more manageable level, but you still haven't tackled his main point, which is to pinpoint what qualifies you to manage a team of game developers. The only qualification I can find is that you plan to get in debt to pay the people who do the programming and art. Unfortunately, that doesn't distinguish you from anyone else. The programmers and artists could get a loan if they wanted to. The fact that you're taking the risk isn't enough, in my judgement, since they're already taking a huge risk working for someone with no experience and no apparent skills.

Before you jump on the offensive, let me reiterate "apparent". I'm not saying you don't have any, I'm saying you can't demonstrate any. Ok, you can't program and you can't do art, but you think you can design. Then prove it. Grab something like Multimedia Fusion or even better GameMaker and make some games that demonstrate you have an eye for good gameplay. Demonstrate that you know everything that goes into a game. Maybe it's not exciting, maybe it's not profitable, but without it, I don't see how you can hope to hire anyone other than a pretty mediocre bunch of people who are just going to take their share of your loan, string you along for a few months and then clear off again without having given you anything you can do much with. And with your apparent level of experience, I'm afraid you won't be able to tell whether they've given you something worth anything or not.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, which I suspect it's not.

[Blue Falkon]

Thank you for your replies.

Perhaps I am underestimating how long it will take, I will assume so. However, I am also being underestimated. I may be young and still naive, but... I don't jump the boat when it comes to projects. The ideas might be a bit too far-strung like some I posted here previously but that is not a problem anymore. When it comes to getting people to help out I could be considered an expert judge of character. I don't hire random people, and I no longer hire friends. I am able to get a pretty good amount of above-average programmers/artists working for a free/very low price. Also, I am not the kind of person who can get in debt very easily, unless I blew thousands on something. Until the game gets developed, I plan on spending no more than $500 max and it probably won't even come to that much. That amount of money is not a problem for me. The marketing might be a little harder to do, but as I shall mention again, I am pretty resourceful/have a lot of connections.

Sybixsus, you are correct about the proving of design ability. Ideas aren't worth that much, many people can come up with great ideas and they'll never sell them. They have to construct them. You are also right about my intolerance in previous threads, I get to be a bit explosive sometimes and it is a downfall on my part. Forgive me.

I've tried to learn programming languages like Qbasic, Vbasic, DarkBASIC, Ruby/RGSS, and C++. Each one has failed. Apart from coming up with special algorithm programs in Vbasic I can't do much else in programming. Perhaps I should try C++ again, but I lost my compiler CD so I will have no compiler for it.

Don't worry about debt on my part, let it no longer be a part of this discussion. I have many consultants, many connections, and many emergency resources. Plus, I am not a fool when it comes to money. I just need to set my road straight as I'm currently in the process of constructing a good business plan.

[theshadowfan]

Until you have released a game, every development forum will tell you the same thing: you need experience. You haven't proved anything to us that says otherwise.

Spending under $500 to develop a game is great. The main thing is to find people with the talent and whom have the same passion as you do. I don't think hiring your friends is a bad thing, if they actually can be productive. I have a friend who is a 3d artist and he is doing the models for my game. He's extremely fast, works for free, and best of all he is good at what he does. I've tried to search online for this type of person, but I rarely come across them.

[lakibuk]

$500 will get you nowhere when it comes to graphics & programming. The only way with this budget: DIY.

[Blue Falkon]

$500 will get you nowhere when it comes to graphics & programming. The only way with this budget: DIY.

As true as that might be most of the time you did not read what I said. I have workers who are currently doing voluntary work, even when I asked if they wanted to be paid. That goes under what I said about having people and finding people who are willing to work for little or nothing. Everyone gets compensated in the end though.

[mot]

I've tried to learn programming languages like Qbasic, Vbasic, DarkBASIC, Ruby/RGSS, and C++. Each one has failed. Apart from coming up with special algorithm programs in Vbasic I can't do much else in programming. Perhaps I should try C++ again, but I lost my compiler CD so I will have no compiler for it.

How did the languages fail? Given enough time, focus and patience you can do anything in C++. You can download free compilers from the internet in matter of minutes. Just pick a language and stick to it. It won't be easy with any of them. When you're halfway through making your game and you lose a compiler CD, will you give up too?

[Blue Falkon]

How did the languages fail? Given enough time, focus and patience you can do anything in C++. You can download free compilers from the internet in matter of minutes. Just pick a language and stick to it. It won't be easy with any of them. When you're halfway through making your game and you lose a compiler CD, will you give up too?

No no I mean I tried to study them but I have a problem when it comes to studying mathematical things or anything that has to do with numbers. I lose track after a bit and lose focus. But like I said I can try C++ once more.

Edit: I found my compiler! That's good news.

[Andy]

You know what Falcon, let I help to you and others:

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=6815

I assume that should helpful be to know what the issue we have here.

With all my respect,

[Blue Falkon]

You know what Falcon, let I help to you and others:

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=6815

I assume that should helpful to know what the issue we have here.

With all my respect,

You spelled my name incorrectly. :p

I'm surprised you dug that up. I was a bit too intolerant back then. But people are still failing to understand what it is I'm trying to do here, I'm not expecting to make big hits at this age, I'm trying to learn. People are constantly telling me to do something like "go here" or "read this" or "don't get in debt" or "wait a while"... alright, I see. Problem: the "go here's" and "read this's" are all the same thing... "wait half your life learning". I learn as I go.

I don't expect to be a hit for a long time, but I don't sit and study during that long time either. I have learned to do many things in my life that many have not done by the age of 30, some say I'm a learning prodigy. "Oh you're full of it" you might say, but unfortunately that is the one thing I cannot prove over the internet. I am sadly naive when it comes to what to learn in game development, I know more of the outs than ins... but, it will not take me half my life to learn something.

This thread is to help point out a road for me, not point out signs that point out the road.

[mutante_mc]

I think this steps are reasonable:

1. Right Size Your Life.
2. Don’t Quit Your Day Job.
3. Find a team of like minded individuals.
4. Innovate, but not too much.
5. Create a portfolio of products.

Five Foundational Steps To Surviving As A Game Developer
http://makeitbigingames.com/blog/?p=14

[Jesse Aldridge]

So if you can't program, you need other people to make games for you. Without payment though, the games would have to be really simple. If you could make a little money off of those simple games, you could use the money to hire other programmers to make better games, etc. I've never done this, but it sounds workable in theory.

If your games are really simple to code, just keep asking around. I'm pretty sure you could find someone willing to make you something for free or for a small amount of money (payed upon completion).

Once again the key is simplicity. The likelihood of a game being completed drops exponentially with it's complexity.

[Blue Falkon]

So if you can't program, you need other people to make games for you. Without payment though, the games would have to be really simple. If you could make a little money off of those simple games, you could use the money to hire other programmers to make better games, etc. I've never done this, but it sounds workable in theory.

If your games are really simple to code, just keep asking around. I'm pretty sure you could find someone willing to make you something for free or for a small amount of money (payed upon completion).

Once again the key is simplicity. The likelihood of a game being completed drops exponentially with it's complexity.

That's exactly what I'm doing. Although as I've mentioned in my more recent posts I'm trying to go back to study C++, so I won't be all that worthless.

Edit: And I believe I have just found my programmer. So, things can start moving and I shall see how it goes.

[electronicStar]

Even if you've found a coder, it would be useful to be knowledgeable a minimum with coding.
Just stick with a language and keep working on it until something comes out of it, whatever it is. C++ can be very unfriendly with beginners (depends on the person) so you could try a "cleaner" language like Pascal or Python (learning python could be a good idea because in the future, your coder might be able to interface a python script engine on your main engine, that would be a great asset for level design and artistic direction).

To learn coding is easy, just find tutorials (nowadays with internet, young guys have it too easy...), copy the tutorial source, compile it and make it work. If it works, try to understand how it worked, the structure , and then hack it, make little modifications and see what you can do. Repeat, etc...That's easy but you need to be obstinate.

[linchear]

First step.

Make pong.

[zppz]

How much would a programmer typically go for? I'm not an expert at time estimations but the game's complexity level is so small that it would probably only take a week or a less to make the editors for each game. An expert could probably do it in 6 hours or less. That might be ignorance talking again but I can't see why it would take very long as they're editor-based games and have minor physics.
Y'know, one thing I have been thinking since this first post - if your estimate about the programming work here is correct and an expert could do the job in a day, how long would it take an amateur? Surely even starting from no experience, a reasonably smart individual could accomplish the same 6 hour task in a few weeks? If I were you I would get started on this myself. Even if you can't finish it completely, at the end of a month you'll be a lot better off for it.

[LilGames]

That goes under what I said about having people and finding people who are willing to work for little or nothing. Everyone gets compensated in the end though.

How do they "get compensated in the end" if:

A. The game never gets finished?
or
B. The game doesn't sell?

Have you acknowledged this risk with them, or are you promising the sky?

Anyways, go for it. Just have a back up plan for if you make Zero money. I think that's all anyone is really saying. Don't just plan for success, plan for failure too (since you have higher chances for failure when using volunteers, and also due to your own inexperience).

Also, since you have no programming and no art experience, have you at least written a design document? (Not a 2-pager, I mean DETAILED document that specs out every conceivable aspect of the project).

[Blue Falkon]

How do they "get compensated in the end" if:

A. The game never gets finished?
or
B. The game doesn't sell?

Have you acknowledged this risk with them, or are you promising the sky?

Anyways, go for it. Just have a back up plan for if you make Zero money. I think that's all anyone is really saying. Don't just plan for success, plan for failure too (since you have higher chances for failure when using volunteers, and also due to your own inexperience).

Also, since you have no programming and no art experience, have you at least written a design document? (Not a 2-pager, I mean DETAILED document that specs out every conceivable aspect of the project).

Yes, I write design documents all the time. Even for things I don't usually plan to make anytime soon. I like getting my ideas written down.

The game will get done. The size of it makes it almost impossible not to. Will it make money? Who knows. They will be compensated regardless of how much money is made, even if it's nil. I'm not in it for the money at this moment, but the sales will definitely help, of course, as each sale will build up the company's value and capital, so more can be spent the next time around. The starter projects are for portfolio and "hey look what we have done" showcases.

Also, I do have art experience... just little of it. I can draw some things, and I can do certain types of graphics with Photoshop. That's about it. But, I cannot program and I cannot do all of the graphics, which is why I need an artist and a programmer.

[Bad Sector]

The development of Nikwi (http://www.slashstone.com/more/nikwi) took me around 200 hours (total time, in reality it was between two or three weeks), including the game engine, the editor (which is part of the engine, but well, it's extra code :-P), the -crappy- physics engine (which i wish i never started), the graphics, the sounds (including the sound fx maker (http://www.slashstone.com/files/ssfxsetup.exe) and it's library (http://www.slashstone.com/more/slashfx/)), the levels (30 of them, with the theme to change every five or six levels), the documentation and other minimal stuff.

Being addicted to programming since the age of 7 (now i'm 21.6666666 :-P), having messed with lots of programming areas (databases, scripting languages, computer graphics, AI, operating systems, system design and others) and wanting to learn new things (on the field of programming) i consider myself an good and experienced programmer.

Also i believe that i'm a decent artist (trying to improve whenever have the time) and that i can design funny games (funny for me, at least :-) but i don't believe that i'm such an alien :-P).


Still, i made zero cents from Nikwi.


The reason is that the game lacked in a few areas. Overall, it is a funny game - know it because when i gave it to friends and later free on the Internet, people loved it. A friend of mine, who barely plays such "simple" games went and finished it (i think he still is the only one who has finished it...) in a weekend.

However it lacks music and the original shareware version (http://www.slashstone.com/files/nikwisharewaresetup.exe) had some controlling bugs (and it was hardier in general). Also i could do some touches in graphics here and there.

The reason i didn't all these was that i lacked time and that i rushed (and overlooked) some bits. Also i had very low budget for music (i am no good in music at all).

So my point is that, even if i had experience in some important areas (programming and art), even if i did most of the game myself, even if i pushed myself to finish it as soon as possible (given the environment i was at the time), i made nothing in return (well, except the joy of doing it and the satisfaction that people liked it later).

I liked the whole thing because, even if i spent i a lot of time in it, it was an experience that will help me in the future. I learned lots of things, before and after.

This is a message to both directions. To Blue Falkon, to see that the time doesn't always come as he wants it (and when you try to rush, something may go wrong) and to others, to see that even if someone does it wrong, there is this "experience" you get at the end, which will help you at the future. Personally, i believe that if Blue Falkon is gonna fail in his first game, it's much better to do it now that he is 18 than later when he'll be 30. He'll have much more time to recover and try again :-).

[negativegeforce]

I understand you seem to made up your mind on being a team manager rather then a development team member. That is perfectly fine you know, but you really will learn a lot more about the development process if you build a simple game yourself. I know everyone rammed that into your skull already about a gazillion times, but did you ever consider learning Blitz Basic? Its a really easy to learn and use 2d game creation package...I would really advise starting with that if you never programmed games before.

C++ is very difficult to start with since the language is very complex and when dealing with pretty much all c++ graphics api's it requires quite a bit of knowledge. It will take you a year just to learn how to program C++ and draw graphics on the screen, then another 6 months to make a first game.

Not that C++ sucks because its very powerful, but for a start-up indie dev you need something you can quickly develop.

Your never guaranteed to have dependable people to finish your game if you end up trying to get people to make the game for almost nothing. Then after your coder quits you have to get another programmer to relearn how the game was put together and sometimes redo it entirely all to possibly have him leave, lol. Its sorta the same with the artists, not 2 artists have the same style of art.

Just a little summary of me...been learning c++ on/off 2 years, and the last 10 months it took me to learn up to the point where I am almost done with Plumbers Inc, my first game to be released. Not a short road by any means.

So I really recommend starting with something like blitzbasic and make some games, then maybe hire an artist to do the art for it and release it and just get a feeling for everything. Maybe then you could make a decision on hiring a programmer, other artists, sound people...whatever. Good Luck, i think we both need it :D

[KNau]

Haven't you been reading? He doesn't want to learn or do anything because that would take too much time! He doesn't want to wait half his life (or the 3 weeks it would take) to learn something like Blitz Basic.

Blue Falkon is something special -something we've never seen before. He's an ideas man!

[soniCron]

And how valuable are ideas, everyone? :p

In all seriousness, I remember growing up I wanted to be "the guy" who thought up all the cool game ideas. It wasn't until I got older that I learned no such position exists. That said, a tiny handful of (really, really successful) industry veterans have co-opted "consultant" status and in effect work as idea guys, but they've all worked in the trenches for years upon years proving their worth and gaining a truly deep understanding of how the industry works, from the inside out.

You've got to put some muscle behind it, or you'll end up a worthless middle-manager nobody likes in some ancillary facet of the gaming industry.

[T4RG4]

1) Your time estimates are completely wrong. When I was young I thought all coders should 'get over it' and write in machine code :/ We all start out in the wrong place.

2) You cant manage a team when you know nothing about creating a game - You'll hire more experienced people to work for YOU? The only ones that would want to work for you are likely to have very little experience too... its not sounding like a good start...

3) How can you write a business plan when you havent the first clue about what you're actually trying to do?

4) Do not think you can start an RPG company to compete with established players when you've never ever created a game

5) When you've finished your studies - go work for a developer for a long time (that means years, not months). If you start in QA, get out and into design... for a few years. Work in as many studios/companies as you can... (I suggest design because you said you cant code/produce artwork).


Forgive my harsh tone, I'm just cutting through to what you really need to know. You learn quickly when you stick your hand in the fire ;-)

[impossible]

Blue Falkon is something special -something we've never seen before. He's an ideas man!
If I met an "idea guy" with some really good ideas that could put together a good team I would sign up as a coder for him. There are tons of guys that think they have great story or gameplay ideas that are just garbage. Even if you have the skills to implement your garbage ideas that doesn't mean they'll turn out well. I always like to ask people what their ideas are, and 100% of the time I get a vague description of generic crap, or I get the standard "I'm afraid someone will steal it." I'm not saying your ideas are bad, Blue Falkon, but this has been my experience so far with other people.

[JPickford]

I thought I knew everything when I was 18.

[T4RG4]

Ha, indeed... so he's on the right track then... ;-)

Blue Falkon... if you cannot convince one or two people on here that you have the right stuff to succeed in your ever so slightly ambitious plan, then you'll not make it via your route. You've asked for a road map, people (inc. myself) are telling you to get into the industry. You're writing a business plan but you hate working with numbers... you aren't able to convince anyone on here that you are taking our input on board and you aren't willing to learn (spend some time working) because you'll tire of it too quickly... How on earth are you going to write a business plan if you haven't the above?

I guess I'm just trying to save you from yourself. Reading stuff on the inet doesn't make you a 'learning prodigy' and collecting some telephone numbers and email addresses of financial institutions and developers off the inet doesn't make you well connected.

The one thing I do like is your self belief... I have this too, although I kept quiet for a lot longer and judged myself. I'm now 29, I guess in your eyes I wasted half my life :-)

You're always going to be learning, but just a little longer will help you out a lot. Of course, I could be completely wrong. I'm still learning too.

[soniCron]

I thought I knew everything when I was 18. In all fairness, you were rather accomplished by 18! ;)

[RedKnight]

My advice? I should say!

Quit while you are ahead!!!
or
Don't believe what they say about the Game Industry and especially to the likes of Steve Palina
or even better!!
Don't do it for the money, but for the love of gaming!

[Ricardo C]

It's like trying to put together a band before taking your first guitar lesson. Like wanting to be an editor without having written anything.

I'm going to repeat what I said in that other thread: I like your confidence, but you're going about it all wrong. Start SMALL. And get your hands dirty. Programming isn't your strong suit? Then grab GameMaker (www.gamemaker.nl) or RPG Maker (http://www.enterbrain.co.jp/tkool/RPG_XP/eng/), or the Scrolling Game Development Kit (http://gamedev.sourceforge.net/). Or wait for Seth Robinson's Novashell (http://www.rtsoft.com/novashell/). Stop thinking about incorporating. You don't have anything to incorporate.

You're like the one-man version of Ion Storm: "Hey, let's get the penthouse in downtown Dallas before we write a single line of code! Wheeeee!"

"Immediatism" will keep you at the starting line forever. In your rush to act like "the big boys", you're skipping every step they took to become "big boys" to begin with.

Take your time. If, instead of trying to create a development studio out of thin air, you devoted a couple hours each day to learning a programming language, where would you be this time next year? If you added an hour a day to practice art, anything from pencil drawing to Photoshop, where would you be in a year? I'm not saying you will automagically become the next John Carmack-slash-Alex Ross, but I AM saying you have it in you to become competent in either discipline, and maybe more.

However, if you insist on running before you walk, in five years you'll still be posting threads like this one, until you finally realize all these guys had it right all along, and you could have accomplished so much already if you'd only listened to them when you were 18.

Feel free to disregard my advice, for I am really not that different from you: Just an aspiring indie. But I am also older, and trust me, when it comes to immediatism, I know of which I speak.

[vjvj]

He's an ideas man!

Pretty much nailed it on the head there.

Blue: Do you want encouragement and feel-goodiness? Or do you want advice to help you succeed? You only get to pick one.

[defanual]

-Like Ricardo C and many others have said, forget all this Incorporating / business plan (unless your adamant on getting a loan) stuff.

You need a product or service of interest before worrying about all the business stuff. No ones gonna be in a rush to nick your unregistered name or care about whether your a PLC or INC etc. That's a concern for when you actual have assets (Products, games, brand etc).

-C++ is starting at the deep end of the pool of programming. It's the equivalent of learning German or Japanese instead of starting with French or Spanish and overall while it's a great language to know, it's somewhat unnecessary for a newbie with all the game specific tools now available.

Start with something like Darkbasic Pro, Blitzmax or even TGB (C script like, but many complex stuff done already). These programs have done all the C++ stuff for you, why re-invent the wheel unless your wheels better?

-The problem with not wanting to learn to program is that most would-be successful developers/creative leads start out this way. They make it a labour of love. They have an understanding that its the heart of any game world (good or bad graphics can't do nothing interesting without a brain!

Another problem with this is it suggests that while you may like games (playing isn't the same as making), your heart might not be into it enough to get through that threshold of understanding a programming language. You may be a good lead or ideas guy, but perhaps you talents might be more useful in a different area where you can draw/have most of the skills already needed?

Just a suggestion, but from experience, I know that when your determined to make something and your hearts in it, you learn whatever you need to learn and you persevere regardless of your current shortcomings or failures.

Even so, I'm not saying your method of things is impossible to do, just that it seems unnecessarily harder and somewhat backwards (Chicken before the Egg, Cart before the Horse etc...)