Affiliates: why bother?

[merovingian]

Help me understand - as I get it, an affiliate is someone who offers to point a link to your game in exchange for a significant piece of the pie. It sounds like it's a lot more profitable to be the affiliate rather than the developer - zero work, just bandwidth and profit, an even better business model than that of the underwear gnomes it would seem. Could someone disabuse me of this notion or at least clarify my definition.

[kerchen]

It's all about the numbers. If an affiliate gets you a sale that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise, it's worth giving that affiliate a decent chunk of the sale. Which would you rather have, 100% of 1000 sales or 70% of 2000 sales? And it's not really "zero work" for a worthwhile affiliate: driving significant amounts of traffic to a site takes plenty of work.

An affiliate doesn't make sense if the developer's site can capture most of the same traffic the affiliate site captures, but there are many 'good' affiliates out there with traffic that's hard to beat. So, you could certainly abandon game development in favor of becoming an affiliate/portal site, but it's not any easier.

[Gilzu]

Help me understand - as I get it, an affiliate is someone who offers to point a link to your game in exchange for a significant piece of the pie. It sounds like it's a lot more profitable to be the affiliate rather than the developer - zero work, just bandwidth and profit, an even better business model than that of the underwear gnomes it would seem. Could someone disabuse me of this notion or at least clarify my definition.

It's more than just point to or link to. Being an affiliate means you present other's game in your website like the games you sell.

About zero work: I doubt it. The idea of affiliates means taking advantage of existing bandwidth and costumers that know the website. This means that being a good affiliate means that people will:
A. know and visit your website
B. Buy games from it - people who already bought a game usually have higher chance that they'll buy others (->buy affiliate game)
C. return to your website for other games - which is pretty tough if your'e and affiliate only since when they click on the buy-now button, they're going to your affiliate. Then your affiliate gets both B and A.
D. link the product to the website. "X website has some great games...." ect. AKA reputation.

If you'll read the above, you'll notice that "good affiliate" means profitable affiliate. People who seek for affiliates seek for the above points and some more when they question in their mind: "will x be a profitable affiliate or will he just put my reputation in danger"?

Just my thoughts on the subject.

[Gilzu]

So, you could certainly abandon game development in favor of becoming an affiliate/portal site, but it's not any easier.

I've seen several download portals that adapted a method of "give me 30% and i'll give you a nice exposure". I also seen some Indie developer's website who uses affiliates and got me confused what's their products and whats not. It even got to a point where I couldnt recognize if its a Indie developer webfront to sell his games, a download/affiliate website or a publisher.

Then again, considering how long these websites are around, their pro look and more games adding to their list, its safe to say that they are doing very well.

[DFG]

I hear the "zero work" argument for the affiliate side of things quite a few times around here and I guess if I had been slaving over a game for months I would feel the same way. But here are the facts: as most developers know who have worked with affiliates, very few produce any serious income. Therefore, being a successful affiliate is a lot harder than it seems otherwise you would have rich affiliates all over the place - it just isn't the case.

A successful affiliate has to have a successful product. His product is not the game, it is his website(s). There is a lot of competition for game sites and it is increasing exponentially every week. (There is alot of big money going after the game space, btw, and bigger money is yet to come.) You can't really do PPC viably since the margins aren't there. Therefore, the get traffic to your product, you have to be real slick at SEO or other traffic generating means.

We all know how much traffic it takes to get a sale. Think about it from the affiliate's side, conversion rate is probably lower than for you the developer. They have to get more traffic than you comparitively (on average).

More work than you think.

[merovingian]

I hear the "zero work" argument for the affiliate side of things quite a few times around here and I guess if I had been slaving over a game for months I would feel the same way. But here are the facts: as most developers know who have worked with affiliates, very few produce any serious income. Therefore, being a successful affiliate is a lot harder than it seems otherwise you would have rich affiliates all over the place - it just isn't the case.

A successful affiliate has to have a successful product. His product is not the game, it is his website(s). There is a lot of competition for game sites and it is increasing exponentially every week. (There is alot of big money going after the game space, btw, and bigger money is yet to come.) You can't really do PPC viably since the margins aren't there. Therefore, the get traffic to your product, you have to be real slick at SEO or other traffic generating means.

We all know how much traffic it takes to get a sale. Think about it from the affiliate's side, conversion rate is probably lower than for you the developer. They have to get more traffic than you comparitively (on average).

More work than you think.

And that's just it - in my case, I suspect word of mouth will be my real ally. I'm a little bit notorious, and the minute I release something I'm likely to generate some hype if only because it'll be a second act in an ongoing saga with way too many twists and turns. Whether that translates to big sales remains to be seen, but I'm currently not seeing the affiliates as an alternative to good old fashioned self-promotion and legwork. Thanks for bearing with me as I ask these stupid questions. I want to catch up fast.

[arcadetown]

Therefore, being a successful affiliate is a lot harder than it seems otherwise...

Therefore, the get traffic to your product, you have to be real slick at SEO or other traffic generating means.
Yes, it's all very true. Many people think running a succesful website is easy. Rest assured it requires a tremendous amount of work just like developers put in, if not more. And it appears Jim, some people are very good at SEO.

[Gmicek]

I'm not saying that developers needs affilliates, but i have no question that it takes a lot of work to run a good affilliate site. I think it's similar to indies doing PR for themselves for example. Tons of people say how easy it is to just whip up press releases and send them out, but most people completely suck at it and eventually just bitch and moan about how much time it takes.

Some developers seem to be ok with the idea of making a game and then doing all the post release support. Others seem to be keen on starting work on their next title, thinking customers will just come their way.

[Gmicek]

I'm a little bit notorious, and the minute I release something I'm likely to generate some hype if only because it'll be a second act in an ongoing saga with way too many twists and turns.

Who are you?

[Dan MacDonald]

Anyone remember the Atari Jaguar?

[tolik]

Anyone remember the Atari Jaguar?

I have one.

[Jack Norton]

Yes I remember it, cool console :)

[Gmicek]

Well, I haven't seen any llama references yet, so...

[Andy]

I hear the "zero work" argument for the affiliate side of things quite a few times around here and I guess if I had been slaving over a game for months I would feel the same way.

"zero work" + on development of the title Jim... ;)
That's just what they always forgot to add.
Common. I don't believe that anybody here believes that development of good ecommerse shop costs nothing efforts.
But when we give 30% of our income to affiliates I'd consider this as good percentage of share. At least our the best affiliates feel pretty good from the income they get from that.

Guys. Good affiliates are very well for you. Search for them and love them as you only can. They should be weighted as a gold for their efforts and their help. I know that for sure - we got one (!) to love. (Not simply like but love!..)

[ggambett]

Who are you?
I think he's a very old program who thinks cursing in french is like wiping his ass with silk.

[merovingian]

I think he's a very old program who thinks cursing in french is like wiping his ass with silk.

Mark my words boy and mark them well. I have survived your predecessors and I'll survive your infernal BEER BAR!

[EpicBoy]

*kissing your wife in the bathroom, kicking your henchmens asses*

[merovingian]

*kissing your wife in the bathroom, kicking your henchmens asses*

You're kicking my wife in the bathroom and kissing my henchmen's asses?

What's up with that?

[Gilzu]

You're kicking my wife in the bathroom and kissing my henchmen's asses?

What's up with that?

I think he's refering to that third matrix movie (you should know, since it refers to your nick).

lets not stray too off topic guys...

[Anthony Flack]

I want to know who this notorious person is too, though. This has happened a number of times around here, with people mysteriously alluding to their work, yet having no link to a website in their signature or member info.

Not only is it annoying, it also seems a bit counter-productive.

[merovingian]

I want to know who this notorious person is too, though. This has happened a number of times around here, with people mysteriously alluding to their work, yet having no link to a website in their signature or member info.

Not only is it annoying, it also seems a bit counter-productive.

Oh huff and puff, when I'm ready to ship, no problem. But I'm not ready to ship yet and the last time I opened my mouth, the resulting can of worms had its own gravitational coefficient. It all ended well, but I try to learn from experience.

PS I thought being an indie was all about doing your own thing your own way, did I miss one of the bylaws?

[DangerCode]

Let's try to get this back on topic. I was actually learning something for a second there.

:)

[Curiosoft]

more profitable to be the affiliate rather than the developer - zero work

Ah yes...
The Law of Amateurs:
Any amateur that alludes to the work required in a domain they do not understand subconsciously uses the following formula:
work required = amateur's knowledge of the domain * actual work required

In this case...
work required = (0% knowledge of marketing) * (a lot of actual work required) = "zero work"

That's how you got "zero work". I use this formula for a lot for things I naively understand. When I first started indie development, I thought I could make my game in a week :rolleyes:

Later,
Curiosoft

[ggambett]

I thought being an indie was all about doing your own thing your own way, did I miss one of the bylaws?
No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without. [...] Now I have some real business to do, I will say adieu and goodbye.

[EpicBoy]

PS I thought being an indie was all about doing your own thing your own way, did I miss one of the bylaws?
If you didn't want people to ask, you wouldn't have alluded to your past or your reputation. If you want to keep it quiet, don't talk about it.

Pretty simple.

[ggambett]

If you didn't want people to ask, you wouldn't have alluded to your past or your reputation. If you want to keep it quiet, don't talk about it.
Give him a break... knowing that he has a name/past/reputation was relevant to the discussion because it directly affects his exposure, even without knowing the specifics.

[EpicBoy]

Didn't have to be mentioned. He chose to drop that tidbit and then acted surprised when people pressed for more information.

On a message board where people talk about marketing on a daily basis, that's about as subtle as a nuclear detonation.

[Chaster]

Oh huff and puff, when I'm ready to ship, no problem. But I'm not ready to ship yet and the last time I opened my mouth, the resulting can of worms had its own gravitational coefficient. It all ended well, but I try to learn from experience.

PS I thought being an indie was all about doing your own thing your own way, did I miss one of the bylaws?


(apologies for diverting the topic... I will try to get back on topic in the next post, I promise!)

Hmmm, are you.... Derek Smart? =)

[DangerCode]

Well, since we're in the business of bossing people around I hereby declare that not one indie developer can allude to their sales without telling us exactly how much money they make in this business. :D

I mean, if you don't want people to ask about specific questions about your income then why allude to your sales to begin with. ;)

Now, I really would appreciate it if we got this back on topic. I would really like to learn more about affiliates, how they work, what they do, etc. etc. etc...

(And besides, he's obviously John Romero. :D )

[merovingian]

Anyways...

I've learned a lot about affiliates and portals from just lurking about here. It seems like affiliates/portals are a good idea if they're prominent like RealArcade, but mostly a PITA if they're a wannabe. That's pretty much all I wanted to learn on that topic. The rest is in need of learning by doing, so let's all get back to that, 'K?

[Dan MacDonald]

Ha, well this has blown up so large that the only game he could mention that would match expectations at this point would be Duke Nukem Forever....

[Anthony Flack]

Yeah, well sorry I asked. Never realised that actually saying who you are is such commercially sensitive information.

[Gmicek]

At the end of the day I don't think any of us really case. A number of big names have gone indie and shown they can't make good games, so we'll care once he's released a good game.

And no, it's not Derek Smart.

[EpicBoy]

Oh, I know it isn't Derek Smart. He would sign in with his real name and tell us all to stuff it. I've seen him on messageboards before. He doesn't hide. At all.

[kerchen]

And I don't think it's John Romero. He's already got an established indie company (http://www.monkeystone.com/), so presumably he would already know about affiliates etc.

[Anthony Flack]

Anyway, if you think you can get some good traffic through word-of-mouth, then you might as well see how that works out for you first. You can always affiliate later, and it makes sense to reach as many people as you can before you do that.

[Jim Buck]

John Romero works at Midway Games in San Diego.

[Sirrus]

Whose to say that Monkeystone is doing well?
Last I've seen, that wasn't the case...

[Andy]

John Romero works at Midway Games in San Diego.

Yes, I felt that something wrong is going with Midway. Now I know specifically what that was - they will overload their budget 10 times, delay all games on 10 years and die in 10 months... :D