Cross-platform standalone Flash - Best for portals?

[mustardseed]

I'm considering Flash for a new project of mine and I've been searching through these boards and reading about different flash projector applications. I can't seem to decide which one will be best for my needs.

I want a product that will:
- Create cross-platform executables
- Go full-screen or windowed
- Be fast
- Work with most DRM systems for portals.

I've heard good things about swfXXL (I think that's what Jeweltopia uses), but it's windows only. I'm really looking into Zinc, but I've heard it's kinda slow for gaming, and it's not universal for OS X.

Can any other flash devs give some insight? Thanks!

[KNau]

I haven't found Zinc to have any speed issues, but I haven't really been pushing it that hard. The demo version is fully functional so I'd recommend just giving it a whirl and seeing how it performs for you. If you don't have a completed game yet, just pull an .swf arcade game from somewhere online and use it as a test.

I went through a long process of trying all the projector tools I could find before finally settling on Zinc. Every tool has strengths and weaknesses and overall Zinc was the best performer in my tests. I haven't tried it cross-platform yet, but that's one of the reasons I was attracted to it.

[soniCron]

Yes, Jeweltopia uses swfXXL and with the latest build of the game (unreleased,) I can get a full framerate on a 700MHz machine and decently playable rate on a 500MHz machine. I tested gobs of other projectors before settling on swfXXL, and the truth is, swfXXL is the best performer, by a large margin. It's important to note that swfXXL hasn't been tested with major portal DRM systems, yet, but it works fine with ASProtect and (I think) Molebox. (I don't remember if I tested it with Molebox or not - but I think I did. I know it didn't fail on Molebox, anyway... ;))

I'd like cross-platform support in the future and for that I've been looking into Zinc because it's so extendable. Be warned, however: from what I understand, Flash support on the Mac is extremely poor. I don't know if that's just the browser plugin or projectors et al. If someone has a Mac and could shed some light on this?

Finally, as much as I like swfXXL, I think I may roll my own wrapper in the near future. I'd like to be able to run the app in fullscreen and windowed mode, and that's just not possible with swfXXL. However, for fullscreen apps on Windows machines, swfXXL is unbeatable! (Sidenote: FlashJester has comparable performance, but is incompatible with many [all?] DRM wrappers.)

[LilGames]

Keep in mind that swfXXL is only a wrapper that sets the resolution, then executes its "secondary exe". Technically, you can use swfXXL to wrap even non-Flash executables.

Where trouble comes in is that this set-up creates multiple "threads" which some DRMs just won't play nice with.

I'm looking into this very problem too. I'll report my findings when I can.

I've been recommended that Northcode's SWFStudio 2.x works well with some older DRMs. Also you can also use Macromedia Director to wrap Flash.

[Nexic]

Tried wrapping a SWFStudio game for ArcadeTown with Armadillo, and caused nothing but trouble.

[soniCron]

Where trouble comes in is that this set-up creates multiple "threads" which some DRMs just won't play nice with. Which DRM solutions are these?

[Chris Evans]

*cough* Director *cough* :)

Yeah, it's a bit pricey but you can deploy web or standalone applications cross-platform. It has a superior 2D engine and feature set than Flash. You can code in its custom scripting language (Lingo) or use Javascript. You can also embed your entire Flash movies into Director apps, so you can use it as a Flash wrapper.

If there's any doubt about whether Director is viable/proven for a wide audience or portals, two words - Diner Dash.

For those looking for a strong 2D engine that's web and cross-platform friendly, I highly recommend downloading the Director 30-day trial (http://www.adobe.com/products/director/)and giving it a spin. Flash is great for web games, but not so great when you want to do standalone downloadables. IMO, Director is a better option if you want to make web AND downloadable games that are generated from the same source code. Plus, you can still utilize Flash by embedding it.

[soniCron]

HAHA! I just got on here to ask you if you (yes, you specifically) had any experience wrapping Director with portal DRM solutions! But since you dropped Diner Dash... ;) (I had no idea!) Thanks gobs and gobs, Chris! Looks like I'll be shelling out for Director now...

[Chris Evans]

I could have also mentioned the Mystery Case Files series. :)

I honestly believe Director is one of the best kept secrets among game RAD tools, especially for 2D casual games. It's not so hot for 3D downloadable games, but it's pretty much the only viable option for web 3D. Macromedia didn't really promote Director to the game community that much and it's not dirt cheap, so I think that's why it's often ignored by the Indie game community.

There's rumblings that the new overlords (Adobe) may begin targeting the gaming segment with the next release of Director (sometime next year hopefully). We'll see...

If you do end up getting Director, make sure you get the Enhancer Xtra here: http://www.director-xtras.com/xtra-enhancer.html It's a must have for any Director game developer.

[Drake]

Can I join the Director + Enhancer cheerleading party? Because they are both awesome. :) Director is the first gamedev tool I ever used, and 10 years later, despite having learned C/C++, ASM, DirectX and other such, I am still a happy Director developer first and foremost. I have high hopes for the new version (due mid-next year), and I'm convinced that Director/Shockwave will continue to loom large in the web and downloadable game spaces.

soniCron: The dirgames (http://nuttybar.drama.uga.edu/mailman/listinfo/dirgames-l) and dir3d (http://nuttybar.drama.uga.edu/mailman/listinfo/dir3d-l) mailing lists are excellent resources and this site (http://director-online.com/) is great for beginner/intermediate stuff. Hope you enjoy your trial!

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Can Director generate browser-playable games? If so, are they SWFs (with like a 95%+ penetration) or something with a lower penetration among browser users?

[Bmc]

HAHA! I just got on here to ask you if you (yes, you specifically) had any experience wrapping Director with portal DRM solutions! But since you dropped Diner Dash... ;) (I had no idea!) Thanks gobs and gobs, Chris! Looks like I'll be shelling out for Director now...


Toybox Games builds all their games in Director as well.

[Bmc]

Can Director generate browser-playable games? If so, are they SWFs (with like a 95%+ penetration) or something with a lower penetration among browser users?


Yes they can, penetration isn't as good as flash player though.

http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/shockwaveplayer/

[Polycount Productions]

igLoader (http://www.igloader.com) perhaps?

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Yes they can, penetration isn't as good as flash player though.

http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/shockwaveplayer/


Do Director games require the Shockwave player?

[Bmc]

Do Director games require the Shockwave player?

to play them online they do.

[soniCron]

WORD OF WARNING
I just finished testing swfXXL with the latest versions of ASProtect, ASPack, Molebox, and UPX and they do not work! Not sure why, since I'm using the same version of swfXXL I've been using. :confused: I'm going to look into creating a projecter loader that works with these DRM/compression products - perhaps create a custom utility for casual developers.

Couple things I need:
Can anyone point me toward a resource I can use to learn Win32 API hooking? I'll need to replace features of an existing window, such as title bar, menus, etc. on runtime.
Do I want to change resolution with the Windows API or DirectX? If I understand it correctly, using the Windows API will reshape the desktop, lose icon positions; generally screw things up. Is this correct?

[LilGames]

Sonicron, I think that's the multithreaded problem I mentioned. Most DRM solutions that wrap the FULL version of a game with a time limit, can only monitor the one single thread of the game EXE. SwfXXL wrapped games are like 2 EXEs running concurrently and that confuses the wrapper.

Regarding your earlier question, I'll have to refrain until I've done more research. At this point I am merely passing on hearsay from a programmer who has worked on one or two casual releases.

[Chris Evans]

Can Director generate browser-playable games? If so, are they SWFs (with like a 95%+ penetration) or something with a lower penetration among browser users?

Director basically == shockwave. You can only create shockwave games with Director. The Shockwave file format is .DCR.

Shockwave plugin penetration is at 50%. It's no where near Flash, which is at 97%. But the Shockwave plugin is high enough that you can get very good distribution for your web game. Most places accept Shockwave games and many users don't even know the difference between Shockwave and Flash games. A day doesn't go by where I don't receive an e-mail from a player saying, "your Flash game rocks", "ur Flash game suxx!", "Can I put your Flash games on my site?". None of my games are Flash, they're all Shockwave.

If your game is originally made with C++ or some other language and you plan to outsource a web demo, it's probably best to go with Flash. However if you're thinking about developing downloadables with Flash, then you should seriously consider Director/Shockwave.

[Bmc]

The only thing with wrong with Director in my opinion, in that there is screen tearing in certain cases.

[Tom Gilleland]

I've been using Director since it was originally Macromind Videoworks way back in 1985. :eek: All our current products are done in Director MX, the tenth version of Director.

I really don't think all you guys should start using it. Once you learn it, your development times will be reduced and there will be even more competition in the marketplace. This would be really bad for us five software developers who use it to make products. ;)

So I'm just going to list what's bad about Director, and not tell you about the "alleged" good stuff.
1. Expensive.
2. Full Screen bit mapped graphics are kind of bad via scaling. You have to kind of design it in the shipping screen size.
3. Including lots or big Flash vector images will slow down processing speeds significantly.
4. Poor File I/O.
5. Poor Printing support.
6. Non-traditional programming interface.
7. People don't think you're as powerful a programming guru as a lingo programmer verses a C++ programmer.
8. End product file size is kind of big.
9. Market penetration of shockwave plugin is not as good as Flash.
10. Product version naming conventions are kind of screwy (MX, MX2004, etc)
12. Can't make products for Linux, or even XBox for that matter.
13. The product icon looks too similar to Dreamweaver.
14. There is a typo on page 81 of the manual.
15. The color of the box could be much nicer.
16. Newer versions no longer ship on Syquest 45 meg. cassettes.
17. Okay.... I'm reaching here....

Tom

[nick]

Just wanted to lend my support, and echo what Chris and Drake said (especially since there seems to be so few of us around here). If you are making a browser game that can be readily re-targetted to PC and Mac downloadables, you should really consider Director. Two big advantages over Flash is the 3D engine and its extensibility via Xtras (self-downloading/installing libraries). Meaning, if it doesn't do want you want, you can write an extension for it. The Enhancer Xtra will give you full-screen modes even in the browser runtime, and a whole slew of other functions (I use it for mouselook in my shooter). The 3D engine has been in need of an update for while, but a positive result of that is, it now practically runs on everything, even on the worst embedded-GPU box over in Accounting.

The confusion between Flash and Shockwave often times works to Shockwave's advantage, ironically, because users are more likely to install a plugin that they are already familiar with (and coming from well-known publisher like Macromedia/Adobe helps). On the other hand, this confusion (bad marketing?) has over the years eroded Shockwave's recognition among web technologies.

[Bmc]

Tom, you do know that you can the application icon's right?

I actually think that Director is a good solution for creating casual games.

Skunk Studios uses it, Toybox Game uses it, Gamelab uses it.

If you do end using it, look up "quick start projectors" and external casts (which are libraries of gfx, sounds, text, scripts etc)

[Sharpfish]

I have been reading this and everything but the price sounds good. Was wondering how Director stacked up against something that has a similar final result if you were mainly or only using to make downloadable games and not web stuff.

The price seems overkill if you are only using it for executables compared to something like BlitzMax (which is understandably less RAD oriented).

So how do they compare?


Windows And Mac executables (both)
DirectX7/Opengl Support (both)
Rapid Development (Director)
Performance (? Blitz?)
Language - Coming from C++ Lingo would need learning, though Javascript is more similar in syntax, Blitzmax is C++/Java like but with some 'BASIC' like hand holding that annoyed me a bit (?)
Download size/neat install (from the director games I checked out, it seemed to be packaged with a handfull of .dlls - is it capable of a single .exe, obviously data packs seperate).
Types of games suitable (the 3D Shockwave stuff looks very interesting but is it really more suited to 2D even in downloadable games?)
Cost. BlitzMax ~ £50 Director 10 ~£1000! Does that massive price difference pay off if you are not going to be making extravangent web games, media discs, basically just making typical downloadable games?
Timers, is the timing rock solid in Director Games. Set at '30fps' does it cap it/lock it or do it properly to counter fluctuations (dips), ie time based rather than frame based?


Thanks for any comparision feedback, I am not saying BM is better (though it is far cheaper) and I understand taken as a whole it's comparing apples to oranges. I am just curious what made those of you who actually use it for games choose it (at a premium) over cheaper solutions and if you would still stick with it even given all the alternatives?

I am only asking all this because I am very interested, I have dabbled with the demo before but I had assumed it couldn't do more advanced stuff, then I saw Chris's games (a while back) and some other demos and I couldn't believe it had that power, and with the games reported above having used it, it certainly seems to be a great app especially for Casual 2D games.

[soniCron]

I haven't yet had a chance to check out Director, but if it's anything like Flash, the scenegraph alone makes it worth its weight in gold. The ability to position things on a timeline, visually construct scenes (menus, playfield, UI, etc.,) and animate without a single line of code is extremely valuable. In fact, it's the only thing that keeps me using the system despite poor draw speed, code execution performance, and DRM incompatabilities. (Also, I'm fond of the lax-when-you-want coding specifications for Actionscript and I presume Director's Javascript.)

[KNau]

The thing is, if you're targetting portals as your market then why worry about a Mac version in the first place? Last I checked none of the main portals offer Mac games and if they did it would only be as an afterthought.

The September issue of Computer Arts Projects had a free full-version of Zinc 1.1. That's enough to give you the full screen functionality you want, at the right price :)

Don't let the search for a "perfect" cross platform solution paralyze your development efforts. Just know that there are solutions out there and you address that issue when the time comes.

Release your game for Windows and let the income from that finance whatever hoops you need to go through to get a Mac version.

[Drake]

Download size/neat install (from the director games I checked out, it seemed to be packaged with a handfull of .dlls - is it capable of a single .exe, obviously data packs seperate).
Yes. You can pack everything, including most data, DLLs, and Xtras (plug-ins) into the .exe, but it slows down the launch, as obviously it must unpack all of that junk first. The above mentioned "quick start projector" approach is recommended for that reason.
Types of games suitable (the 3D Shockwave stuff looks very interesting but is it really more suited to 2D even in downloadable games?)
No, I'd say effective, highly compatible 3D (OpenGL/D3D/software) is one of the best reasons to go with Director, as long as you're not trying to make Doom 3. Check out the downloadable version of DTA (http://www.rabidlab.com/games/dodgethatanvil/download.html) on an older machine. If it has a 3D card (integrated, whatever) it should run fine.

On the other hand, if you are trying to make Doom 3 (or say, UT2K4), check out Nick's amazing FPS Phosphor (http://www.rasterwerks.com/game/phosphor/beta1.htm) to see how close you can get.
Cost. BlitzMax ~ £50 Director 10 ~£1000! Does that massive price difference pay off if you are not going to be making extravangent web games, media discs, basically just making typical downloadable games?
I don't know BlitzMax, but if you really value the rapid development edge of Director, it might. My question is, why would you not offer a web version if you're working in Director?
Timers, is the timing rock solid in Director Games. Set at '30fps' does it cap it/lock it or do it properly to counter fluctuations (dips), ie time based rather than frame based?
You can lock the frame rate from 1 to 999 FPS. I prefer to work with time based simulations, though, especially when developing for the web.

[Chris Evans]

@KNau:

I wouldn't dismiss the Mac market so easily. Sure, if you're basically a portal content provider the Mac market doesn't matter much. But if you have aspirations for selling direct on your website, you shouldn't be easily dismissive of cross-platform RAD tools. Director can be used for more than just casual games as well. I think you would be far better off attempting to do a shooter, strategy, adventure game or any other somewhat complex game in Director than with Flash. A lot of people don't even realize when a downloadble is made with Director where as Flash standalones usually stick out like a sore thumb either because the over-abundance of vector graphics or because it has a high system requirements even for displaying relatively simple 2D bitmaps.

Like I said before, the group I really think should take a look at Director are those who were planning to do Flash standalone downloadable games. They'll get the biggest benefit. Much better 2D performance, a very compatible 3D engine, cross-platform portability, more OS control via Xtras, and you can still deploy on the web with a recognized plugin that has a solid penetration.

[Sharpfish]

Thanks Drake, and no of course I don't plan on making doom3 (or ut2k4) though I had seen phosphor (reminded me of somewhere around ut99 tech) which I thought was very impressive considering the RAD aspect.

If I did take the plunge it would be my tool for 2D casual/semi casual AND some low requirment 3D games (nothing advanced). And Dodge that anvil has already been checked out, again, impressive. I especially like the ease of importing 3D (W3D format).

MAC/PC compatible is a big plus also. And I certainly wouldn't rule out web versions *IF* I was already using Director, it just wasn't a big factor in comparing it against similar tech that didn't facilitate easy web authoring (Blitz Max again) and for now wasn't high on the priority list (X-Platform is my driving factor more than RAD or WEB to be honest).

I suppose I was wondering if the performance of both 2D or small 3D games was comparable with Director to for ex BlitzMax, SDL, PTK or even C++ and 3D Libs like ogre/irrlicht.

Also, are the resulting files more secure from hacking/redistribution than their flash counterparts?

A lot of people don't even realize when a downloadble is made with Director where as Flash standalones usually stick out like a sore thumb either because the over-abundance of vector graphics or because it has a high system requirements even for displaying relatively simple 2D bitmaps.

This is true, because I had played teddy factory, diner dash and others mentioned in this thread before and had no idea they were made with what I considered "just" a really advanced version of flash!

I think I will certainly be looking into it, try out the demo some more, check some tutorials and read up on lingo etc and maybe next year it will become naturally viable. Right now I have 3 projects (and counting) that are built around C++ and my own tech so they need concentrating on first, but Director is looking pretty tempting for the near future. :)

Thanks.

[Drake]

I suppose I was wondering if the performance of both 2D or small 3D games was comparable with Director to for ex BlitzMax, SDL, PTK or even C++ and 3D Libs like ogre/irrlicht.
My knowledge of BlitzMax, SDL and PTK is limited to what I have read (and played) on these forums, but I think you would find the performance of Director apps to be comparable to those. A well-tailored, pure C++ app will beat it, certainly. However, and forgive me for hyping the RAD angle again... compile times are nonexistent in Director. :)
Also, are the resulting files more secure from hacking/redistribution than their flash counterparts?
Yes, if only because the file formats are not public, and AFAIK they have never been reverse engineered. Other Director authors have a limited ability to get at your media, but the scripts are compiled. It would be nice to see an encryption/obfuscation tool emerge, though.

[KNau]

Wow, I didn't know Director can turn water into wine and was found to cure cancer in lab tests. Thanks!

I guess it is a well known fact that if you hold the $1,000 director receipt in your hands and chant "Mystery Case Files" three times in a row then all of your games will run smoothly and be wildly successful. But then again, apparently if you hold the $99 PTK receipt in your hands and chant "Mystic Inn" you will also be rich beyond your wildest dreams, so it's a tough call.

My mistake, when the poster asked a Flash question I assumed they were looking for a Flash answer, not just opening the floor to every whack job who wants to throw in their dev platform of choice.

Honestly, I don't care what the poster uses (I use Flash at work and Blitz at home) but if you're going to recommend a langauge try to take off the rose-coloured goggles first or at least say "I dunno" before you go making broad baseless generalizations.

On the other hand I did see Macromedia Director save a litter of kittens from a burning building so, you know, there's that.

Now, excuse me. Someone posted a Java question so I need to go post a bunch of PTK information for them ;)

[Tom Gilleland]

Actually I thought this whole thread was an interesting read. Knau generally has very interesting posts, but it seems like he's in a surly mood today. He's probably just mad that Director saved those cats. I guess he hates cats as much as I do.

Tom

[soniCron]

Because of the DRM issues plaguing many of these Flash wrappers, I've rolled my own. It's still in development, but right now it supports windowed mode and I'm making progress toward a fullscreen mode. The modes are switchable, but I'm trying to find a way to make it happen without a game restart. Finally, I fully intend to extend this wrapper to the Mac platform, once I shell out the money to buy one. ;) Oh, and - of course - it plays well with ever DRM I've tossed at it.

All that said, would anybody be interested in this product?

[LilGames]

I may be interested Soni.
(Make the Flash communicate with it via FSCOMMAND)

Also are you wrapping the EXE projector file, or wrapping the SWF and compiling your own SWF player?

[soniCron]

I'm wrapping the projector EXE. (Like swfXXL.) Because of that, I don't believe I have access to any FSCOMMANDs. (They would be exposed to the projector, not the wrapper.) However, I have an idea about a workaround. If I can do that, then I've at least got one-way communication to the wrapper which would facilitate real-time mode switching. Additionally, I think I may be able to support the right mouse button and joysticks in Flash applications. Fingers crossed. :)

[mustardseed]

I would be very interested in your project soniCron. It would answer my original post! :D

[raigan]

After having spent the better part of a week doing nothing but testing the performance of 3rd party Flash projectors, I can say that the only projector that doesn't have a performance penalty is Northcode's SWF Studio (v2 is the one i tested). This was in 2005.

Sadly SWFStudio is Windows-only.. their "Flash Thing" cross-platform projector has been in alpha for 3 years now, i don't think it's ever getting finished.

Worse than just a drop in framerate was the horrible jerkyness/speed spikes that most projectors cause. If your game doesn't need to be fast and smooth Zinc might work, personally i'm very anal about how smooth and fast things are, and i felt that every other projector made our game unplayable.

[Drake]

KNau, you use Flash professionally, and yet you apparently do not appreciate Director's relevance to this discussion? Well, that perfectly illustrates Macromedia's (and now Adobe's) failure to emphasize the relationship between the two products. Director is the granddaddy of all these 3rd-party Flash wrappers. I agree that the price is not justified if that's all you're doing with it (Adobe should offer a big crossgrade discount to Flash owners), but I don't think folks who have paid $700 for Flash Pro would necessarily be scared away from the Director price tag if they understood the value of all the new features they could take advantage of, without sacrificing any of the cool features of Flash. Thus, we Director guys can't help but evangelize, occasionally coming across as "whack jobs" I guess.

With my rose-colored glasses off, I can tell you that Director is not for everyone. Devs who have long grown accustomed to a traditional IDE might not be into its "movie" metaphor, for instance. They might also be frustrated that they can't dig into the guts of the engine to tweak features to their liking. If RAD, web playback and/or cross platform development are not desired, then the value proposition weakens, certainly.

When I hear about someone straining at the bounds of Flash, though? Director all the way.

[soniCron]

Does Director have the graphic filters Flash 8 has (http://www.dzarchive.com/iragination/clips/demos/bne/)? That'd be a make-or-break deal for me...

[Drake]

The entire Flash playback engine is a built-in Director Xtra, so yes. You need the latest update (10.1.1) to access the Flash 8 features.

[soniCron]

I know that SWF animations can be played back through Director, but I'm asking if there's any equivalent to the Flash 8 filters in Director. Or, rather, can different rendering contexts be combined?

[Drake]

Right, I understood that. You can access the ActionScript image classes directly via Lingo/JS, and convert between the Flash and Director image object formats as needed. This PDF (http://www.adobe.com/support/director/flash_8_asset_xtra.pdf) from Adobe explains the technique in detail.

[DGuy]

After having spent the better part of a week doing nothing but testing the performance of 3rd party Flash projectors [...]

Did you take a look at Jugglor from FlashJester? Personally, I've found it to be the fastest: not the easiest to use nor most feature rich (by far on both counts), but the fastest.

I believe its speed comes from the its' ability to wrap the projector file not only the SWF file as most (all?) other wrappers do.

[Matthew]

Drake: What's the status on the Havok Xtra for Director? I recall you saying something at E3 about it being pulled in the latest Director, but still available in older versions, or something.

We're wrapping up a Flash contract job here, and it seems like Director would be a good extension of our newfound capabilities (always easiest to keep the learning momentum going). I'd love to play with the Havok physics, especially...

[Drake]

Right, Havok is not in the MX 2004 box for some reason, but it's still a supported feature. You can copy it over from MX, or get it from someone else's app. It seems weird to have to do that, but I don't think there are any legal issues with it.

Hopefully, the Havok Xtra will be updated and shipped with Director 11, but Adobe's being very quiet about the new features so far.

[DGuy]

I'm wrapping the projector EXE. (Like swfXXL.)

Don't know how DRM friendly this would be but ...

Another way you could communicate with the projector file is via sockets: A small *.exe loads up the projector file and the two establish a socket connection.

A 3rd party tool I used for a school project a number of years ago used this approach (darn, but I can't remember the name of the tool :( )

My gripes with this approach (and the reason I abandoned my own attempts at writing such a tool) was that data transfer was slow, but with AS3/FP2 binary socket classes things should be faster. And, secondly, and this was the biggie, was the way my firewall would pop-up a warning about my application trying to access the Internet every time I started the application, even though the socket was on the "local loop". I was concerned that users might not like the idea that my game was trying to access the network services, and choose, out of fear, to not allow the connection and thus render the game unable to run. But with many games needing to access the Internet for some reason anyway (ex. high scores) this might not be such a big issue.

[soniCron]

I considered that, but the simple fact that it would kill the functionality if the user has a firewall enabled (XP SP2) made me decide not to use that method. At this point, the main purpose of the plugin is to create a friendly windowing paradigm for Flash developers. Adding extraneous functionality - such as would require full communication between the application and the wrapper - is beyond the scope of the project right now. That doesn't mean I won't look into it in the future, but offering windowed and fullscreen capabilities are paramount right now and I really need to devote my efforts toward completing the game. Once that's done, I'll take a look at the project and evaluate where I want to take it.*

Thanks for your interest! Any more suggestions or opinons are more than welcome! :)

*If anyone's interested in getting their hands on the wrapper before I release it as a publicly available commercial product, please drop me a line.

[raigan]

Did you take a look at Jugglor from FlashJester?

no -- thanks, i'd not heard of that one. We tried Flash Studio Pro, Zinc, SWF Studio.. i'm pretty sure there were one or two other smaller ones too. anyway, thanks.

[Bmc]

Right, Havok is not in the MX 2004 box for some reason, but it's still a supported feature. You can copy it over from MX, or get it from someone else's app. It seems weird to have to do that, but I don't think there are any legal issues with it.

Hopefully, the Havok Xtra will be updated and shipped with Director 11, but Adobe's being very quiet about the new features so far.

WOW! So they are making a new version of Director? If it has some type of Vsyncing I may switch back to using it.