Big Fish at 120 employees - after layoffs

[DFG]

Some interesting numbers in this article:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/288395_bigfish12.html

Also, over 100,000 people have signed up for My Big Fish Games. That is quite impressive number in such a short time.

[Tom Gilleland]

The CEO Paul Thelen called the restructuring firings "an opportunity-based initiative of our company." I've never heard firing 14% of your company called that.

Looks like things are changing...

[svero]

Well.. I wouldn't jump to conclusions. I think the one thing that could be said is that they handled the restructuring a little poorly and caught a lot of people off guard and created some bad feeling.

But then on the other hand its very difficult for us to judge as outsiders whether those people deserved to get cut or not. Obviously they'll all say they were wonderful dynamic cream of the crop people, but then if they werent any good they may not even be able to judge their value correctly. Ive certainly been at companies that definitely needed to trim off staff due to hiring too quickly.

Im not saying eveything was fair or that the people definitely deserved to be let go. I'm simply saying that we can't really tell. Its easy to malign companies for doing this kind of stuff but sometimes in business these sorts of things are the "right" thing to do for a company. It has to be done carefully. Surprise firings are bad business, because it makes the people you intended to keep insecure and can lead to people looking for new work, not caring about their job etc...

[Tom Gilleland]

I've certainly had the unfortunate experience to lay off employees, and it is not easy to do. Maybe many of these employees were not pulling their weight, but that is really beside the point. By reading the article it seems that they did not handle the layoff in a professional and respectful manner. That's what really matters. I think many of these companies don't realize how small and connected the software development community is. The person they fired today will most likely be with another software company tomorrow, and they will certainly remember how they were treated when they cross paths down the road.

A good friend of mine is a very successful businessman who takes that extra step to be nice and helpful to everyone, no matter what the circumstances are. He tells me that it comes back to him tenfold. I would expect the inverse to be true. Well, let's see what happens with Big Fish in the future. They are quite an amazing company to watch.

A quote I like is: "Everyone makes mistakes, but how you fix them is what really matters."

Tom

[cliffski]

Isn't anyone else suprised how many people work there? I imagined it to be a far smaller company than that.

[Fost]

Sorry to stray off topic (slightly) but regarding my bigfish games: I thought pyramid schemes were illegal in most countries now? You can get round them if you are based in some coutries (like Malta) but the in the UK this would be illegal, and I would have guessed in the US too.??

[Escapee]

I think MLM is legal in the state or else there would be no Nu Skin or Amway spreading like a virus to the entire world? My bigfishgame is a "non invasive" type of MLM in the sense that it doesnt require users to buy certain amount of units to earn the referral credit or to get qualified to be a distributor. So i dont think it's going to cause anybody bankrutcy like the real MLM does ( My relatives lost plenty of $$ doing this sh*t to feed Nu skin Jumbo jets ). We all know it's a very astute marketing by bigfishgames that will guarantee increased popularity and future success .

The move by bigfishgames could be the signal for the end of traditional referral system for casual games should other follow suit to stay competitive ( I would really hate that :D :D )

It's about time to think about contigency plan ;)

[svero]

You have to look at the other side of these things too. Ive seen companies that close completely because their ceos were always trying to please everyone and be a "nice guy". Succeeding in business sometimes means making tough or unpopular decisions. We can only guess at their reasons, but who knows, maybe not doing the restructure would have led to more people out of work in a year?

[Fost]

I think MLM is legal in the state or else there would be no Nu Skin or Amway spreading like a virus to the entire world?

Ahh, looking into it a bit more, it's technically a 'commision scheme', this means it's free to join, and completely legal (although you have to be careful with how you advertise some aspects of it.)

Sorry for the derail, back on topic ---->>

[HairyTroll]

You have to look at the other side of these things too. Ive seen companies that close completely because their ceos were always trying to please everyone and be a "nice guy". Succeeding in business sometimes means making tough or unpopular decisions. We can only guess at their reasons, but who knows, maybe not doing the restructure would have led to more people out of work in a year?

There is a right way and a wrong way to lay people off. When the company I work for had a round of layoffs, everyone that was laid off got a full 9 months salary + benefits.

[Scharlo]

Most of the companies that can afford to pay salary for next 9 months wouldn't need to lay them off in the first place.

[Cartman]

Sometimes these kind of cuts are put into place by an agressive CEO to position the company for takeover. I've worked for companies where a CEO was brought in just for this purpose, so it doesn't surprise me. I've also heard of rumors of Big Fish positioning themselves for sale. Just a rumor though, no basis on fact as far as I know. Of course, they are going to deny it in their press release.

A severance is quite common in this area for the high tech market, but I can't speak about the game industry. A friend of mine was just layed off about 3 months ago, after working for 6 years. He got three months of severance and got a job in about three weeks.

I've got alot of gripes about CEO's, but I'll leave that for another time. I worked for one of the other companies listed in the article. :)

[lakibuk]

Isn't anyone else suprised how many people work there? I imagined it to be a far smaller company than that.
Yes, surprised me too.
Doesn't RealArcade have something like 100 employees?
So i thought BFG maybe has 30-40.
But these two things are just assumptions so they are not really worth a ...

[KNau]

No, Cliffski, you're not alone. My first response was "What the hell can that many people possibly even do at Big Fish?"

But then I remember that we are on the slow steady buildup to the Web2.0 bubble crash and I'm surprised they aren't bigger. I'm surprised there isn't a massive, custom built Big Fish Games corporate headquarters with Harley Davidson's and pool tables in the lobby.

With the step into social networking I'm sure there's aspirations for one of those bloated billion dollar takeover offers.

[svero]

There is a right way and a wrong way to lay people off. When the company I work for had a round of layoffs, everyone that was laid off got a full 9 months salary + benefits.

I agree that it sounds like it wasnt handled the best way. 9 months sound excessive to me though. But yeah maybe it could have been less of a surprise etc.. I dont dispute that. Im merely saying that its easy to villify a company that has to cut or restructure for whatever reason. Were there celebrations on the forum when bigfish went through a big round of hiring. They cant win really with this sort of thing. Layoffs are always unpleasant. But yeah.. could maybe have been handled a tad better.

[arcadetown]

Each time I saw BigFish there was another 20 - 30 employees than before. Looking at how they currently have a good slice of the hot sellers guess they can afford it.

But then I remember that we are on the slow steady buildup to the Web2.0 bubble crash...
Nothing to do with YouTube selling for $1.6bil (http://www.moneyweb.co.za/shares/international_news/262879.htm)? (that's with a B). Think I better set our sights above the old 15 cents and 2 sticks of gum target.

[svero]

I offer 35 cents and 3 sticks + 1 jelly bean. Have your people contact my people.

[Pyabo]

Yes, surprised me too.
Doesn't RealArcade have something like 100 employees?
So i thought BFG maybe has 30-40.
But these two things are just assumptions so they are not really worth a ...

I think it shows too... look at Big Fish and their evolution vs. RealArcade... they might be the market leader at the moment, but they are completely static and not doing a very good job with keeping up with market changes.

Just my opinion.

[Polycount Productions]

Very rude way to handle layouts - "staff had only time to grap the keys and jacket". This reminds me a little bit of the situation with Fortum (big finnish company) whose owners just decided to basically give them a few millions of euros... meanwhile fired tens and tens of workers because of "competitive situation" (or something like that).

Luckily there are companies and people like Tom mentioned for example who handle things professionally.

[lakibuk]

Very rude way to handle layouts - "staff had only time to grap the keys and jacket".
Yes, this seems to be the american way of firing people. Happened to Rockstar Vienna in a similar unfriendly way. I guess its a practice to prevent (former) employees to take things with them from the company building.

[Tom Gilleland]

There's a series of insider posts on this blog:

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/venture/archives/107586.asp

This contains a lot of disgruntled employees -vs- company spin, with some objective opinions thrown in. Very interesting reading on many levels.

The big lesson everyone should learn from this is that business today is much more transparent then in days past. Forums and Blogs have changed what information people find out about companies. And Google indexes it all so that this information is easy to find. I think over time this will lead to fairer business practices and more professional company attitudes.

Tom

[Escapee]

Wish there is more humanity in today successful corporate environment as a role model . We have lost so much of that on international stage in the name money and oil .. :o

[mokkbs]

Word to the wise: When there are rumors of financial trouble and layoffs amongst your peers, and a meeting is held where the big boss says "no layoffs are planned" or "we are financially sound", you'd better have your resume up to date, for you have just been lied to.

[Snooker]

Doesn't RealArcade have something like 100 employees?


When you factor in all of our games group worldwide, I think we're around 250 actually. That includes 1st party development, client dev team, marketing, operations, testing, and our content team of 6. I haven't seen an org chart for the games group, though, so these numbers and teams are based on my intuition.

[KNau]

Just throwing this out there for anyone who feels upset at the way Big Fish handled the layoffs or whatever future outrage may occur - just remember that if you distribute through them then you are complicit with their behavior. Not in a legal sense (you're not at risk) but in the "don't complain if you aren't willing to do something about it" sense.

Sorry, but it reminds me of people who complain about "the evil corporate America war machine" but continue to have things like tobacco and defense stocks on their investment portfolio.

[KNau]

Actually, the real kick in the pants is that we are all complicit in what Big Fish has become. I remember when that website started and the guy posted here with something like 2 games on the site! They used the info and help from this board to start that friggin' company. And now look what they've become.

Mental note: don't help anybody!

[amaranth]

Very rude way to handle layouts - "staff had only time to grap the keys and jacket".
This is definitely a norm in the US. I'm not sure what it is like elsewhere, but the fear is that disgruntled employees might try to sabotage that which they were working on. I've seen these sorts of layoffs at places I've worked at, and it's no fun, especially when people who are good workers get let go without a proper send-off party. I think a smart employer would let the company know that some jobs are going to be obsolete and that the company is going to make an effort to make sure that anyone who gets laid off is able to find new work quickly.

[val]

This is definitely a norm in the US. I'm not sure what it is like elsewhere, but the fear is that disgruntled employees might try to sabotage that which they were working on.
Yepp. Do not wait until you're fired. Steal office supplies today!