Any "non-casual" games sell good? [Archive] - Indiegamer Developer Discussion Boards

sticksfirmly

10-11-2006, 10:40 AM

Hey all,

I've been trolling and the indie scene for a while and just had a quick question that I know that I can't answer.

So, it seems that the majority of games that do pretty well are more casual (as in match-3 clones) or more geared towards family (with cute graphics and whatnot).

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there are any indie games that AREN'T casual out there that sell well.

I know about Kudos, Democracy, and all if Cliff's work, so I kind of want to exclude them. In addition, I'm looking for games that are more serious and (possibly) violent.

For example, "Alien Shooter" had great reviews and that's the kind of game I'm talking about. Does anyone know if that game sold well?

If you can think of non-casual indie games that sold well that are NOT puzzle, match-3, or anything like that, could you direct me to them?

(Also, if this is in the wrong section, please move accordingly)

luggage

10-11-2006, 11:07 AM

Crimsonland? Don't know how well it sold but it was talked about a fair bit.

KNau

10-11-2006, 11:10 AM

I've heard that both Alien Shooter and the Air Strike series have done very well. Also that Smallrockets.com crumbled under management issues, not lack of sales and their Red Ace games were very popular.

Also, while you may argue that Puppy Games isn't selling huge numbers he has carved out a good niche that I suspect will continue to grow. Plus, he doesn't have to worry about being cloned to death.

bignobody

10-11-2006, 11:14 AM

I don't think he's ever released numbers, but I hear Dan Marshall's Gibbage (gibbage.co.uk) did better than he expected. Lots of violence and cartoon blood 'n gibbie goodness.

Coyote

10-11-2006, 11:24 AM

Because SOMEBODY is gonna be saying it sooner or later: Cliffski's games are non-casual.

A couple of games over at GarageGames do pretty well. Or did. Not sure how they are selling now.

And Manifesto Games is all about selling to the non-casual audience.

Popcorn Boy

10-11-2006, 11:33 AM

It'd be interested to hear how games like Popcap's Heavy Weapon and Master of Defense sell online.

sticksfirmly

10-11-2006, 12:15 PM

Because SOMEBODY is gonna be saying it sooner or later: Cliffski's games are non-casual.

I know they aren't. I just think they're more "casually" than most other non-casual games.

Aside from that, it didn't seem that Gibbage is actually doing all that well to me. In addition, it seems that Dan didn't have ANY expectations when he made the game at all. Dan, any comments???

Never heard of Crimsonland actually. I guess I got into the game too late....

I didn't know that Smallrockets is done. I DID hear a lot about Red Sky and I did imagine that they were having decent sales.

Also, Tribal Troubles does NOT seem to be doing that well to me either? Is the maker on the phorums?

sticksfirmly

10-11-2006, 12:16 PM

Holy s**t!

Popcorn, I didn't know that you made Darwinia! That game isn't THAT casual, and, even though it's in stores, would you care to offer your insight?

jwc

10-11-2006, 01:56 PM

There's difference between "non casual" and "bloody games".
Kudos can be liked from women because has no violence on it - Alien Shooter is completely different.
I don't think you have a chance to earn same money with a "bloody" game that will appeal mostly only to male audience.

The usual path for a male gamer is:
play demo->wow cool->open browser in google an type "gamename crack/serialz"->play pirate version

Sillysoft

10-11-2006, 02:37 PM

My game Lux Delux is not casual (in the typical "casual games" sense) and it sells very well. I think with non-casual games there isn't the same kind of portal aggregation going on, so it's harder to see the top games - a lot of them are selling direct or get their audiences from the more mainstream gaming sites.

LilGames

10-11-2006, 02:37 PM

Great question SticksFirmly.
It's going to be a tough one to answer though, because it mesically requires that the author or publisher reveal sales info. (And "successful" to one author might not be so for another).

I'd be curious to know how "Mutant Storm" has done.

Skinflint

10-11-2006, 03:09 PM

"Selling well" is soooo relative.

Crimsonland is a violent shooter that DID and DOES sell well, based on what it cost to make. "What it cost to make" is the key. Tero over at 10Tons did most of the work, and Reflexive helped test and design some of the game, as well as provide some art and sound assets. If Reflexive had made the game in-house, I don't think it would have been profitable. Our costs of development are too high. However, since 10Tons did the bulk of the actual development, it worked out well for everyone.

Wik, that we made for the Casual audience, but isn't a casual game, didn't "do well" until we released it on XBLA.

(and no, I'm not releasing any numbers to support this...) :)

Nexic

10-11-2006, 04:39 PM

There are loads of non-match3, non-cute games selling well, you just haven't found out about it because they don't make their money on the portals. Of course this doesn't mean you can make any game you like and get great sales.

stiill

10-11-2006, 07:10 PM

I'd be shocked if Defcon didn't do reasonably well. Also, I've never seen sales figures on Uplink, but Introversion seemed to suggest it funded them for a while.

Popcorn Boy

10-11-2006, 10:25 PM

Holy s**t!

Popcorn, I didn't know that you made Darwinia! That game isn't THAT casual, and, even though it's in stores, would you care to offer your insight?

Well, we didn't make Darwinia - Introversion did, but we did publish it for retail. Darwinia is definitely not a casual game, and not something you normally see on traditional portals (nor do we have the rights to shop it to them). In fact, I think it has probably been most successful on Steam. I can't speak to the online numbers, but I can say that we did get good distribution of the title at retail including Wal-Mart and Best Buy. We'll have to wait and see how the final numbers shake out.

We have an affiliated label called Cinemaware Marquee through which we publish traditional/core games like Darwinia and Space Rangers 2 (RPGs, RTS's, etc), while we typically publish our more casual games under the eGames label. There will be some crossover when we release Defender of the Crown which is a Cinemaware property but will offer more casual gameplay...

DanMarshall

10-12-2006, 03:27 AM

Aside from that, it didn't seem that Gibbage is actually doing all that well to me.

Ummm.... how'd you work that out given that I've never told anyone how many copies I've sold?

tewe76

10-12-2006, 03:55 AM

I've no sales info, really, but it seems that Jets & Guns did very well and it's absolutely non-casual.

Anthony Flack

10-12-2006, 04:06 AM

Ummm.... how'd you work that out given that I've never told anyone how many copies I've sold?
You are two sides of the same person. Like in Fight Club. Sorry, but it's better that you know.

DanMarshall

10-12-2006, 05:12 AM

You are two sides of the same person. Like in Fight Club. Sorry, but it's better that you know.

I like the way some people think I'm "Marshall" who comes on IndieGamer occasionally and slags people off. Like that's a brilliantly cunning pseudonym for me to have picked in order to act all nefarious on the boards...

Marshall

10-12-2006, 05:28 AM

I don't debate that Platypus sold a lot of units. It was everywhere, and it's an awesome, awesome game. The comical part is how much you failed to make anything out of it, except for the generosity of Retro64, and how much you are now delaying the release of your next project for fear that your newfound mad game design skillz, that define your self-worth, may be proven wrong by bad sales or bad reception of the game due to a market mismatch (ie. "confronting with reality"). It's so much easier to post 10 times a day giving design advice to everyone while never testing it out in the real world.

Marshall.

luggage

10-12-2006, 05:52 AM

Can't speak for anybody else but I've never seen Dan and Marshall together in the same room...

Bad Sector

10-12-2006, 06:01 AM

Can't speak for anybody else but I've never seen Dan and Marshall together in the same room...

A bug in the Matrix?

Anthony Flack

10-12-2006, 06:01 AM

Ooh, that Marshall! So mean! And so mysterious!

...I wish it was delayed just for psychological reasons.

princec

10-12-2006, 07:27 AM

It's so much easier to post 10 times a day giving design advice to everyone while never testing it out in the real world.Them's of us who've played Cletus know that it's probably going to be a massive hit though :)

Cas :)

siread

10-12-2006, 08:14 AM

New Star Soccer 3 has sold around 6000 licenses in 1 year. Doesn't do too well on portals, but word of mouth just keeps on selling it. :)

sillytuna

10-12-2006, 08:32 AM

Heh, I'll stand up here and now and say that Anthony's forthcoming game is a pet fave of ours and I know others are going to love it when released.

Regarding Introversion and Uplink - I'm sure they'll comment themselves should they wish, but they did spend a lot of time on Darwinia before they "made it", financially and otherwise. Fact is that they did "make it" in the end, i.e. can now self-fund further projects.

sticksfirmly

10-12-2006, 09:10 AM

Ummm.... how'd you work that out given that I've never told anyone how many copies I've sold?

I just figured. No real reason to back it up. Just some of the things you've posted on your blog and on this forum that made me think that. Didn't mean to offend at all.

@ All

Thanks everyone it was really enlightening. It's good to know that there IS a market and possiblity of success for a non-casual, non-match-3 clone, (dare I say, actually FUN :) ) game out there.

sillytuna

10-12-2006, 10:33 AM

Developing games shouldn't be fun. You're on the wrong board.

Games are about making wads of cash, driving ferrari's, copious amounts of booze, and visiting lap dancing clubs.

Whoops, sorry, that's the Marketing boys.

Bitter? Me? Noooo...

DFG

10-12-2006, 11:38 AM

President Forever by 80soft.com did incredible during the run up to the last elections and was fairly solid before and after.

I would say most of the stuff by Niels Bauer have been very solid performers for indie (www.nbsd.de)

I think the war and strategy genre is a an area waiting to be harvested. I think Metal Knights has done well overall and has a good free->pay for greater benefits model.

Risk is a good genre to work in also that I think has alot of potention. Sean O'Connor of windowsgames.co.uk has Conquest which really broadens the genre and adds some good maps. Has been very steady seller for me.

I think shooters for the most part are fairly played out unless you can come up with a new concept. Crimsonland was fairly unique on the net although it borrowed from Smash TV, Robotron, etc. Great game and alot of fun.

sticksfirmly

10-12-2006, 04:17 PM

I think the war and strategy genre is a an area waiting to be harvested.

Waiting to be harvested?

It seems to me that it already is. It seems like a very niche market, and I actually forgot that there a number of solid strategy indie games out there. I completely forgot about those.

DFG

10-12-2006, 04:58 PM

I think the AAA market is bloated in this area but not the small file, online indie market yet. Tradewinds is an example. Someone could do a pretty cool, Advance Wars type game that I think would do really well online. Check out Metal Knights http://metalknights.com/ - I think a cleaned up single player game like this would do well under a variety of themes from distant past to futuristic.

DangerCode

10-12-2006, 08:21 PM

...<trash>...

Seriously, why is this even tolerated?

Emmanuel

10-13-2006, 05:40 AM

Accessible platformers have done very well -- Turtle Odyssey hit #1 on RealArcade and broke our top 10. Bud redhead was a smash hit in its time as well. Cletus seems to be more inspired than either.. If it's way easier than Platypus I'm sure it will do awesome.

And come on, I finished pizza panic, so release Cletus this year already :)

Best regards,
Emmanuel

Jack Norton

10-13-2006, 06:06 AM

If you are talking only from business point of view (best revenues) I would definitely go for a platform. Is a genre not "casual" by definition but popular between men and women, and in general (as far as I know) sales don't drop quickly as with other genres.

Anthony Flack

10-13-2006, 06:19 AM

I think this year would be pushing it, since every time I start to make any progress on the damn thing and get some flow going, I am immediately interrupted. I guess those of you who try to make games in "family time" know that feeling. Rrrrr!

Still, it is starting to wrap up now - really! It shall be much easier to beat than Platypus, but also very difficult if you prefer - I'm including very wide options for difficulty this time. But it doesn't have the same simple controls, so it may not be as readily accepted by casual players. We shall see.

It's probably a gamer's game first and foremost. The response from more traditional gamer types has been very positive; I'm hoping that it will be a good word-of-mouth spreader.

But whether it pays for itself or not, if it turns out well, I'll be satisfied. It's more of a personal challenge than a business. It's also the kind of thing that makes for a good work portfolio - whether or not it's financially successful, it's bound to create more opportunites for me in future. I don't think I can really lose out by making it.

Fry Crayola

10-13-2006, 03:24 PM

New Star Soccer 3 has sold around 6000 licenses in 1 year. Doesn't do too well on portals, but word of mouth just keeps on selling it. :)

Any idea how important NSSs 1 & 2 were in that?

adamw

10-13-2006, 07:52 PM

I think this year would be pushing it, since every time I start to make any progress on the damn thing and get some flow going, I am immediately interrupted. I guess those of you who try to make games in "family time" know that feeling. Rrrrr!

Oh man, we should start a thread about this topic. I'm with you, brotha'! How long have I been working on Dungeon Delvers now? No, don't tell me. I don't want to know.

Lately my problem has been my day job drains me so much that my get up and go has got up and went. I'm out by 9-10:00 PM, snoring in the lazyboy.

But I figure if I make any forward momentum, that's good. And eventually, one *does* get done.

siread

10-14-2006, 01:13 AM

Any idea how important NSSs 1 & 2 were in that?

There certainly helped build up a fanbase. NSS1 = 398. NSS2 = 4423. The fact that they are football games garuantees reviews and I have gathered quite a few contacts in that respect. Getting reviewed in the likes of FourFourTwo makes a massive difference. Months later people still say they heard about the game in a magazine review.

simonh

10-14-2006, 04:23 AM

My game isn't particularly casual and sells reasonably, it's shifted a few hundred from my own site and a few thousand on portals.

It is a cute game though, which of course appeals to kids which I think is where most of the sales go.

jankoM

10-14-2006, 05:05 AM

Nice to hear your game sells so nice. I allways thougth it is great (and my nieces loved it) so I think it was unreasonably shadowed by hamster ball. There was a lot of talk about HB (at least here) but never SGB.

Janko M.

edit... I even sold 2 or 3 on BKG I think.

arcadetown

10-15-2006, 10:28 AM

I echo DFG, bring me strategy games please! That and good Adventure and RPGs. Unfortunately these categories do comparatively weak on the huge portals so developers tend to ignore them. If qualify casuals as puzzlers and match-3s then some non-casuals that do well here include... Age of Castles, Gunner 2, World Domination, Star Defender 2, Aveyond, Cute Knight, Tribal Trouble, Motorama, etc.

arcadetown

10-15-2006, 10:36 AM

It'd be interested to hear how games like Popcap's Heavy Weapon and Master of Defense sell online.
Master of Defense (published by BigFish) was very interesting to me and thought would be huge hit here as it's simply a great game. Instead it ended up doing relatively solid hitting our top 10 first month and now hovering around top 20 - 40. It briefly appeared in a few top 10s elsewhere but quickly vanished, including on BFG who had vested interest. My guess is the control system is still rather complex with scrolling screens and lots of buttons, even though it's uber simplified from a real RTS.

Another was Devestation Zone Troopers. I had huge hopes for it and ended up doing relatively ok sales instead. My gut says it didn't put it's best face forward in first 5 minutes of play. Users have attention deficit, a game's gotta be great fast.

LilGames

10-15-2006, 04:00 PM

How much exposure did Master of Defense get on traditional "hardcore gamer" websites? I'm just curious, because I feel that's the audience that would buy it, not the casual portal audience.

Escapee

10-15-2006, 10:19 PM

Hardcore gamers would probably prefer warcraft series (10xtimes) over MOD.

Nauris

10-16-2006, 12:20 AM

Hardcore gamers would probably prefer warcraft series (10xtimes) over MOD.

I dont know. There seems to be a growing market segment out there which is being strangely neglected- the aging hardcore gamer. Guys, 28-40 years old who were geeky hardcore gamers once but have matured since, are working hard, dont have enough time to spend long nights playing, being family men and all.
Trouble is, there isnt yet a nice way for them to find such "semi-hardcore" titles. They tend to read gaming mags and big sites focusing on AAA titles and dont browse Yahoo or BigFish. Stardock or Steam seem to be the closest.

jwc

10-16-2006, 12:42 AM

There's no need for "semi-hardcore" titles. BTW what is that?

Hardcore gamers just wait a few months (since as you said they have family etc so aren't in a hurry) and get lot of good titles for cheap.

I just got galciv2 from play.com for only 22 euros, can't beat that (in the official site they sell it for $40+). I also bought Sacred for less than 10 euros and many others. The price is comparable to the shareware ones and the quality is MUCH higher (since there's a team behind them).

For casual games the shareware fills a gap in the commercial sector, but for hardcore (roleplay, sports, strategy) there are PLENTY of options unless you played all the existing games (which seems a bit strange honestly). New interesting niche games comes out in the mainstream market every month, like Heroes of Annihilated Empires, or the upcoming Might&Magic 9.

Sorry but shareware just can't compete with them...

Escapee

10-16-2006, 01:07 AM

Rite , it's a little risky to make a game that compete with the style and mechanism of successful core game like WCIII/Dota ( IMHO the game is a genre killer ). If the animation are feminist looking plus a girly title like " Angel defense " then we would probably have a different story :)

sillytuna

10-16-2006, 02:27 AM

I agree 100% with Nauris, and he's talking about people like me and many of our team.

I no longer have time to spend hours on a game every day, and I love the pick up and play casual thing. I'm still waiting for more SNES style titles but with a modern feel to them - production values, easy to get into - and I thought XBLA would be the place for that. Now I'm not so sure.

BTW Nice artwork there Nauris. You should drop us a line.

Anthony Flack

10-16-2006, 03:47 AM

There's no need for "semi-hardcore" titles. BTW what is that?

Hardcore gamers just wait a few months (since as you said they have family etc so aren't in a hurry) and get lot of good titles for cheap.

Those of us with jobs and families aren't nearly so concerned about the cost (we have plenty of money), but more the demands placed on us. I own lots and lots of games, and don't have much time to play. I've noticed that I'm far more likely to collect older games than newer ones (my collection of games from the last generation of home consoles is only about 30 PS2 and Gamecube games, whereas I have bought - fairly recently! - many hundreds of games that originate from the 90s). Even the PS2 games I have enjoyed most were things like Gradius V and Outrun 2006 - old-style games with state-of-the-art production. It's a world away from either Realarcade or World of Warcraft.

I agree it's a neglected market. People like me have money and do buy games. But it could be difficult to produce this sort of title. It would have to be top-quality stuff. I'm not likely to buy an indie shooter game unless I really would rather play that than Gradius V or Radiant Silvergun. Actually I'm not sure that most indie developers are up to the task - I think one of the reasons people have been drawn to casual games is that the audience is comparitively easy to cater to.

sillytuna

10-16-2006, 04:56 AM

Addictive 247

10-16-2006, 05:05 AM

Heh, may as well post this here...

One of my future "pet" projects is to have Tuna develop a full-on super flashy highly playable shoot-em-up, and I'd really like to take on an up to date version of the Bitmap Brothers artstyle.

So if there's anyone out there up to the task...

Definately need some Bitmap Brother inspired games. Xenon (the original) or the absolute classic Chaos Engine really do need to be re-done. Their art style was always lovely to look at, especially in Gods.

princec

10-16-2006, 05:06 AM

Mmm, Gods. That's the only platform game I've ever liked, apart from Cletus.

Cas :)

Fost

10-16-2006, 06:56 AM

I'd really like to take on an up to date version of the Bitmap Brothers artstyle.

So if there's anyone out there up to the task...
Check out Rod's art for Gus The Grey (http://www.gameartnow.com/) (bottom right thumbnail). I always thought that wasn't far off. Cool idea btw, I hope you get that off the ground.

Mmm, Gods. That's the only platform game I've ever liked
Gods was cool! What about The New Zealand Story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Zealand_Story)? Or Cave Story (http://agtp.romhack.net/doukutsu.html)? Two of my favourites. Possibly because they are shoot-em-platform-em-ups though.

Anthony Flack

10-16-2006, 07:49 AM

Sharpfish

10-16-2006, 08:31 AM

Platform shooters are one of my all-time favourite genres. I'd like to do one one day. Well, I'm kind of doing one now, but I mean a full-on one. An honest-to-goodness Metal Slug or Rolling Thunder. Non-stop jumpin' and blastin'. I don't care if it sells; I love 'em.

And going back to even simpler more archaic games... I loved stuff like "Exolon" on the Spectrum http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/exolon.htm. I also want to make a game like this at some stage (having messed around with ideas in the past) and like you, "I don't care if it sells" (which it probably won't). ;)

And before anyone mentions the glorious Turrican (2), that's taken as read! :)

It's just fitting everything IN to the 24 hours a day along with a thousand other projects and 'todo stuff'.

Nauris

10-16-2006, 08:54 AM

Yeh, I meant that those gamers are short on time, not money, they`re actually more likely to buy games, since it seems normal entertainment expense for them, plus now they can afford them too :) so its not the price that influences their decision, but whether one can have enough fun without investing too much time and messing with job and family.

I have always thought that Strange Adventures in Infinte Space was something very close to "semi-casual" title. Not that I`m trying to coin a new word or something, I just dont have a better one.

@sillytuna- hey, thanks! Will do.. :)

electronicStar

10-16-2006, 10:47 AM

I can confirm the "neglected aging family male" market here :)
Actually that's the type of game I am doing right now , and that's what I'd like to continue doing if I can do it in "the indie business".
These gamers definitely need something to escape from their everyday life after a hard day at work and before going to spend the evening with the family.
Some games with boy themes : science fiction, dark fantasy, parallel universes, spaceships, mutants, spies, etc,etc....
Nowadays the mainstream retail games are increasingly focusing on the same boring themes (WW2,sports,desert "realistic" warfare, MMO fantasy) and they can't even release their multi-million dollar FPSes anymore, they are focusing so much on the eye-candy that they are constantly reworking their titles (DNF and stalker syndrome). There are also a lot less small studios as there were in the years 1998-2000 for example. If you look at the list of retail games in those years , you'll see dozen of smaller scale titles, in these times the budget sections of the retail shops were full with very interesting games one year after their release.

I think there might be a market with this sort of games, but they need to be not too casual and not too hardcore either (not everybody likes spastic shooters), and I thik the effort must be put on the story to provide escapism.

BTW gamestop (http://www.gamestop.com/default.asp?sect=1287)just started an online service with this type of non-casual/budget games.

Sparks

10-16-2006, 11:17 AM

Nobody mentions Spiderwebs software ? Why is that ?
They seem to be pretty succesfull.

Escapee

10-16-2006, 12:32 PM

justfreegames.com (http://www.justfreegames.com) is very popular free site with their completely free semi-casual games such as the great air assault 3D shooter game ( cant believe this game is free ). They should be doing very well with google with such high traffic site filled with plenty of high quality free semi-casual games .

Sharpfish

10-16-2006, 01:16 PM

justfreegames.com (http://www.justfreegames.com) is very popular free site with their completely free semi-casual games such as the great air assault 3D shooter game ( cant believe this game is free ).

If it is free it's probably because according to siteadvisor it is riddled with adware!

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/justfreegames.com?ref=safe&aff_id=0

As are 83 other downloads linked on that site.

*

The following programs were registered in our Add/Remove Programs:

Air Assault 3D 1.0, New.net Domains 7.22
*

Buttons, toolbars, or other modifications were made to our browser.
*

The following icons were added to our desktop:

Air Assault 3D.lnk, GameTop.com.lnk, Just Free Games.lnk
*

The following programs were set to run everytime our system is started:

rundll32 C:\PROGRA~1\NEWDOT~1\NEWDOT~2.DLL,ClientStartup -s, C:\Program Files\SunnyGames_WhenUSave_Installer\SunnyGames_Wh enUSave_Installer.exe
*

Settings for the following network protocols were modified:

Winsock2

And I just noticed they have a very prominent "No Adware" and "No Spyware" graphic at the top of the site.

Escapee

10-16-2006, 02:01 PM

I think they just inserted the " no spyware and ad ware " recently ..

time to scan with ad aware, spybot & hijackthis to check if this is infact contains no spyware and the like.

Title: Air Assault 3D 1.0
URL of the download publisher: http://www.justfreegames.com/action_airassault_download.html
URL of the download: http://www.justfreegames.com/downloads/games/airassault/wu/AirAssault3D.exe
Filename: AirAssault3D.exe
File size: 11624006
Full checksum (MD5): c4e956e5da22fa1e89fb1b727dbd2278
SiteAdvisor Program ID: 643683
SiteAdvisor last tested this download: 2006 June
SiteAdvisor last verified this link: 2006 September

sgm

10-16-2006, 02:03 PM

New interesting niche games comes out in the mainstream market every month, like Heroes of Annihilated Empires, or the upcoming Might&Magic 9.

Sorry but shareware just can't compete with them...Nonsense. I've never heard of the heroes game, and Might & Magic 9 was pretty horrible. It's the ones that are fun with a big marketing budget you need to worry about. :)

Sparks

10-26-2006, 10:39 AM

I dont buy that "aging gamer with family" myth.
As if the big companies wouldn't try to get these as customers, too.
WarCraft 3 is a perfect example.Its less complex than Your avergae RTS, requires less time yet allows for complex tactics.
Age of Empires was a big hit recently, over 2 millions copies sold.
Here in germany things like Settlers 2 Remake sells like sliced bread, games that deal with complex economic dependencies lie Anno are big hits, and most gamers who like those are not your average teenagers.
I guess that exactly these people look for a common game when they purchase, and less on the internet, they go to stores or to amazon, but rather to stores.
The mainstream games are becoming more and more accessible these days.

sillytuna

10-26-2006, 11:52 AM

Sorry Sparks, got to disagree. There are many, many of us who really don't want to spend so much time in Warcraft or playing strategy games. It isn't a like-dislike thing, they're just far too time engulfing.

That isn't to say that older gamers aren't playing them. As you point out, older gamers may be the majority.

I know many, many people who think the same thing, and you know what? I've introduced them to casual games.

Edit: Also, big companies often don't know how to go for these people and many don't think of them. Remember that marketing generally rules in the retail world - licensing and marketing depts have control. These people are not very flexible.

The Sims was going to be canned remember, EA didn't get who would buy it. As it turned out, it basically kept them going during the PS1/PS2 transition when little else generated significant enough revenue (they dropped the ball by leaving PS1 too early).

Natalie

10-27-2006, 02:44 AM

Bad Sector

10-27-2006, 06:48 AM

One question: with the exception of EA, which other game company is "big" ? I can't think any other company that can be considered as "big", at least compared with other computing companies such as Microsoft, IBM, Intel, etc.

I think that the game industry isn't as big as most people think...