Indie Game Connected With Murder

[Coyote]

Oh, joy.

Here we go again:
Gunman's Favorite Game Was an Indie Game about the Columbine Massacre. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html)

My take on it, sure to be controversial:
Indie Game To Get Blamed For Shooting Spree (http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2006/09/indie-game-to-get-blamed-for-shooting.html)

Maybe we'll get lucky this time and the media leave it alone, since the game doesn't come from a sue-able big company obviously intent on making money turning children into psychopaths.

More likely, Jack Thompson will try and sue the makers of RPG Maker.

[Ricardo C]

EDIT: I'm going to remove my previous comments until I've played the game all the way through.

[DanMarshall]

Cliffski: click the CNN link above and then change your avatar asap. I don't think you really want to be associated with him...!

;)

[Coyote]

Unfortunately, this time, the public's outrage will be a hell of a lot more justified than ever before. What's there to separate "Super Columbine Massacre" from games like "Ethnic Cleansing" and its ilk?
What is there, indeed?

And what is there to separate "Ethnic Cleansing" from a movie like Sophie's Choice, Schindler's List, and Life Is Beautiful?

Is it the choice of protagonist, where the point of view is?

Well, then obviously "Citizen Kane" was a horrible movie and should have never been filmed, as it tells the story of a despicable, ruthless industrialist from his perspective.

I haven't played the game, so I'm basing my judgement of it on a review, and on the developer's own professed reason for making the game. Taken at face value, the developer tried to make a game to help people understand what happened, discuss it, and maybe prevent it from happening again. But as a beginner and unskilled developer, perhaps he just botched the job. Maybe not.

I don't know. I wish the game was easier to defend. It won't be. I can't say if the inevitable outcry will be "justified" or not. But this is a horrible event, and I worry that the outcome will be worse yet. Indie games are already getting prospective legislation written against them that would make it illegal to sell them without an ESRB rating (http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2006/09/congressman-matheson-defends-anti.html). This won't help our situation.

[Sharpfish]

The guy was fkcd in the head long before videogames influenced him. The game in question has a questionable right to exist but is in VERY poor taste (it is something I would never personally do nor be attracted to doing even if to raise political points).

I would rather address HOW he became so disturbed that his fantasy of his "glorious death" turned into reality via the possesion of firearms. And how his mental health had suffered at the hands of Bullys (if that is to be trusted).

When I saw this news yesterday I said to my partner "oh here we go, lets see them link this to GTA again". I was wrong but not far off the mark. Of COURSE someone who intends to go shooting people and is also into videogames is going to be attracted to that kind of game purely for kicks. Fact is MOST of us do not intend to go shooting people and still manage to play violent games without becoming pyschos.

I am on no-ones side in this, I feel sorry for the innoncent people involed but I have no sympathy for the gunman, the game writer or the people involved in pushing the gunman over the edge (if any).

[Ricardo C]

EDIT: I'm going to remove my previous comments until I've played the game all the way through.

[Coyote]

I like Amber Night's take on it (before this disaster happened): Maybe this game had to be made to understand that the game shouldn't have been made. The author should have exercised better judgement, even if he started out with pure intentions and failed to execute it well.

But the gunman's love of the game was a symptom, not a cause.

[soniCron]

You know, if they just rated that game with TIGRS (http://www.tigrs.org), none of this would have ever happened. :rolleyes: In all seriousness, I've never had a concern over video game violence before, until I saw this the other day:

CAUTION: GRAPHIC COMPUTER GENERATED SCENE
http://www.carbonscoring.com/gow/gow_head_pop.gif

Taken from Gears of War. If this is how games are going to look in the future, count me out. I can't believe I'm saying that...

[svero]

The problem with this sort of thing is that you could take 90% or more of the college age males from that school and if any one of them were the shooter instead you could *still* make the statement "He played violent games and listened to rap music" about them. I went to Dawson College in montreal, and I played doom and listened to NWA. I didn't however shoot the place up. The columbine game is tasteless and so you don't want to defend it, but really you don't have to. Its just a big leap to say that it *caused* this guy to be disturbed. Im sure whatever this guy's problems were they went well well beyond his playing 1 tasteless game. Really, you'd have to be a simpleton to think otherwise.

[soniCron]

As far as I can tell, nobody is accusing the game of influencing his actions. Merely identifying the fact that he played it, which shows at least a passing interest in school shootings.

[Hamumu]

I can't find a search on GamePolitics, but I read an article there a few months ago about this game. As I recall, several Columbine survivors and/or parents had very good things to say about this game and how much it meant to them. Of course, many others who had never played it had plenty of screaming and moaning about it. This is no "Custer's Revenge", from what I have heard. It's an honest attempt at art (successful or not). Of course people don't believe games can be art, so they flip out.

I am glad to see people using games to tackle serious issues (and I don't mean Serious Games... I don't like those at all! Not that I'm against them, they're just not fun. I mean games that have an artistic message behind them, just as songs, books, and movies have done for decades/centuries).

Columbine wasn't the act of robotic killing machines, a tragedy to cry about and set up laser defenses for next time. It was two kids. It's worthwhile to try to learn and discuss how it came to be and what we can do in the future to make kids less likely to feel so angry and trapped.

And of course, on the whole other argument, I'm also glad people are expressing grotesque racist/evil/psycho views in their games too, like the border patrol slaughtering game. Not because I want the games to exist, but because the thoughts and feelings that created them do exist, and that's what we need to work on*, not cutting off their avenue of expression. I'm 100% in the freedom camp. You know the drill - I don't like it, but I'll defend your right to express it. To the death? I don't know, I'm kind of a wuss.

*Not advocating mass lobotomies. Thinking more like education.

[Coyote]

Eww... I suddenly lost interest in playing Gears of War.

[cliffski]

wow that pic is so like my blog pic. I will change mine tommorow to something cuddly.
I think the problem was the guy got a gun. If I flipped out, I'd be lucky to take down 2 or 3 people with my bow before they got away, added to the fact that I only have six arrows max. Plus I'd have to drive to my mates house and pick up the bow first anyway.
Some video games makers really dont make it easy for us to defend them though.

[KNau]

Ewww - the "we are the world" estrogen always runs thick in times like this. Oh no, blood in a game! I might cry! If only we could all play Electroplankton and Bejewelled (and got neutered) then the world would be a better place.

Again, as information slowly leaks out we find a disturbed youth who left lots of clues as to what was coming, had access to firearms when he shouldn't have and a pair of absentee parents. Odd how that never figures into the calculation - they're right it must be the heavy metal and video games at fault, not the guns, mental disorder and lack of parental involvement.

[Leper]

Hamumu, that was a very well put together post! I agree with it, but also feel that it makes so much sense on many levels. I hope everyone reads it actually.

[BarrySlisk]

Hmm..That Gears of War looks cool. We gotta have more blood and/or cowbell!

I like the disclaimer: "CAUTION: GRAPHIC COMPUTER GENERATED SCENE"

Like we wouldn't be able to handle it. Heheh....

PS! "Do not use TV near water".

[PoV]

Bejeweled linked to triple homicide. In an official statement, the suspect had this to say:

"Video games taught me to match 3, so I did... with bullets."

...

Heh, sorry. It's been one of those days.

[RinkuHero]

I don't think the media is actually emphasizing the videogame connection. If you check the story on CNN.com or MSNBC.com or FOXNEWS.com -- none of them even mention that he played videogames. I think that's pretty responsible of them. But a lot of the smaller news sites are mentioning that, probably to raise interest in the story and their particular site.

One thing almost *nobody* seems to mention is that he was a Hindu and (apparently) he claimed to be doing this in the name of Kali, the Hindu god of death. We don't normally think of Hinduism as a violent religion, when we think of it we think of Gandhi, but there actually are extremist Hinduists out there whose religious subgroup encourages them to act in violent ways, and I think it's at least possible this may be the case here. Don't forget that Gandhi was assassinated by an extremist Hindu cult, Mahasabha.

Also, this is the first time I've heard of his particular Hindu subculture. It seems Hindu Death Metal (usually singing the Vedic chants in Western heavy-metal style) is a popular genre of music within it. I listed to a song in that genre today, it's pretty amusing. I just started studying the Upanishads and the classic Indian epic poems myself recently, so this is oddly coincidental.

Also, the worst part to me about this thing is that *one day* after the shooting, the parents and family members have the victims are suing Sony, Take-Two, Rockstar, Wal-Mart and GameStop (according to gamepolitics.com, anyway). Kind of opportunist.

[Hamumu]

Just wanted to add a link to something I found (via Jason Della Rocca's blog... via Qatfish!). I think this is about the most profound statement on the subject I've seen, and you'll never guess which tasteless ethnic cleanser wrote it. It even includes the word 'moribund!':

http://columbinegame.com/statement.htm

Check it out. He sounds a little self-important at one point (and people who lack tin foil hats will scoff at his final reasoning - but I have several if you need one), but that's how you know he's an artist! He also has been interviewed about the killer, you can find on gamepolitics.

You know, someday I'm gonna make a game with a statement too... too bad "Bush sucks" is already taken. Many times over.

[svero]

I don't think the media is actually emphasizing the videogame connection.

I saw a Washington Post article that focused on games. Depends on the article.

A while back there was another school shooting in Montreal. The killer, Marc Lepine, left a note blaming feminists for ruining his life. At the time there was was very little talk about repealing a women's right to vote and so on. Nobody would come out and decry that the scourge of feminism as the cause of violence in society. Instead it was understood immediately that Lepine was not a normal well adjusted person. Someone with problems. However if it's games, or music, or goth culture etc... people hone in on that and blame it for causing the behaviour.

[Pyabo]

I just have one thing to add to this thread...

It's high time that Kool-Aid was taken to task for their hand in the Jonestown massacre.

That is all.

[Hamumu]

Not to mention all the property damage they've inflicted, smashing through walls.

[Coyote]

Well, anti-videogame activists and politicians are milking this event for all its worth. Lame-duck state rep Hogue, from down the street in my own town of Riverton, Utah, is taking advantage of this tragedy to try and renew support for his "Videogames Are Porn" bill, which died quietly in the state senate earlier this year.

I actually ended up playing SCMRPG. I felt the desire to rinse my brain out with battery acid afterwards, but I played it so that I can actually speak with some level of basic knowledge on the game, unlike some folks (like Jack Thompson, who claimed that "The Sims" was child pornography because the game had anatomically correct naked children under the pixelized blur... ) I think the game developer missed his mark, and I hope the media doesn't portray this game as typical of indie games. It's a first-time amateur effort, and it shows.

I am somewhat amused by the fact that this game was intended to be taken seriously, yet it has children casting spells, consuming cheeseburgers as health power-ups, and going to a hell patterned after Doom (complete with Doom monsters and the E1M1 soundtrack in the background).

I wish the game was more competently done. I commend the author for trying, if his stated purpose was genuine, but the game sucks so bad and misses the mark so far that he should have chalked it off to a learning experience and quietly deleted it off his hard drive when he was done.

[Pallav Nawani]

Kali, the Hindu god of death.
That's goddess Kali, and the god of death is someone else: Yamaraj. There are Kali worshipping tantriks in India though.

It seems Hindu Death Metal (usually singing the Vedic chants in Western heavy-metal style) is a popular genre of music within it.

:eek:

I think it is just like any other shootouts.. a madman gets a gun and starts shooting like crazy.