Real Arcade rips consumers off (its in the contract)

[Leper]

I am well aware that most viewers here are game developers and are either hoping to be / currently in a contract with Real Arcade. I would like to say that I am completely and utterly disgusted with Real Arcade and although they may feel they're being legit becuase their terms are discolesed in the contract, I can compare them to Big Fish Games and note that they are indeed openly ripping you off (as opposed to conning you)

Basically, I had a Real GamePass account for about 2 years now. Everything in this account basically says that I get a free game a month and also a 5.00 credit a month. I have to use the gamepass coupon using their clunky purchasing system (as opposed to the easy purchasing system at BFG) and make sure I use it in every month or I lose it.

The contract clearly states this, and I'm going to reiterate their contract for you.

You, the purchaser, get one free game a month providing that you buy it with your GamePass, otherwise we'll continue to gladly take your money! If you forget or there isnt a game you wish to buy, we'll just take your money anyway!

BFG charges less a month, and you get a free game coupon every month and the coupon does not dissapear! I didnt use BFG coupons for 2 months and was able to get 2 free games! If it were RA, they would have just TAKEN my money.

I expressed my disgust with them over the phone yesterday when I cancelled my account. I also expressed that their selection stinks and is nothing comparable to BFG.

They then tried to keep my business anyway, and I just laughed and told them to go visit www.bigfishgames.com and see what they're missing. They then tried to sell me a free music coupon for real rhapsody and I laughed and told them that I own an iPod and am happy with iTunes. It seems to me that they are behind the times and Real Inc is failing all the way when it comes to noting what their competition is doing and doing anything about it. Real Arcade's platform is exactly the same it was 2 years ago (as I can recall when I first signed up for a gamepass) I also told them that their Real Movie thing sucks too, and I almost see no reason at all to be able to view the .rm files. Their Real Movie format is the same as it was when they first launched it. I'm still in awe that this company is in business.

I at all am not saying RA is doing shady business, and am only declaring they're ripoffs once you look at what other portals are offering, and then you can see that they sell a gamepass account and take your money every month. If you fail to find a game worth buying out of their selection they just take your money. That is where I view it as a ripoff.

[sgm]

Things like that are common with subscriptions in every industry. :(

Is the GamePass just an unlock key for a game, or does it also have the "play any full version games for the whole month" like some sites?

[Leper]

The GamePass comes in every month, and it allows you to unlock one game! But if you fail to use it, they just take your money.

[LilGames]

I think their mistake is in the wording (assuming what you posted is literally what they say. "take your money" ??) How is this any different than paying monthly for cable TV and then you don't turn on your tv for a month? Do you deserve that fee back?

[Leper]

I think their mistake is in the wording (assuming what you posted is literally what they say. "take your money" ??)


No, I re-iterated what they're saying. and that is exactly what they mean, I'm sure its worded with sugar and frosting.

How is this any different than paying monthly for cable TV and then you don't turn on your tv for a month? Do you deserve that fee back?

In my post do I say I want my money back? Am I demanding my money back in any way? No not at all. OH! And Cable IS a ripoff!(I dont use cable, so I dont pay for it, funny though lots of people do!!) The Internet isnt ;)

But at any rate, I can say that if they can take my money even though I dont use their service, then I am nothing but a moron for using them. Why? Because their competition does NOT just take your money, that's why.

[Ricardo C]

Maybe I'm not understanding you, but it doesn't sound too different from any other subscription system. The cable company will bill you even if you don't turn on the TV, and your ISP will charge you the same whether you download 1MB or 1TB.

[Leper]

No you're exactly right, but with gamepasses you will feel like you lost your money (at your own fault, yes) if you neglect the service for a few months. ATLEAST with other portals, they have thinsg similar to gamepasses but they do not make them go away, they stack instead.

I understand your argument, but it just does not personally make me feel any better and I still feel ripped off. I understand that under knowledge of this rip-off contract, I should have downloaded a free game (even if I didnt like it I guess?) to feel like I was getting my money's worth. In the end, its still a rip off, same with any other subscription. If they still take your money and you dont use it, its still a rip off. Its just a rip off you accept and adhere to under a contract.

Just because the cable company does it, and your ISP, does not make it ok. In fact, it still is a blatant ripoff that clearly states "if you dont use it we'll take your money anyway" period no ifs and or buts. It's my fault for letting myself get ripped off. But now I'm afraid I'm on an anti-RA crusade.

If you barely used cable, or if you barely used the internet, and you found a service that woudl only charge you if you used it, you woudl switch over right? Same thing with portals. Since there ARE indeed portals that will allow you to use your past game credits that you missed because there werent any games you wanted, then why on EARTH should I use Real? No my friends, there is no reason at all.

[Hiro_Antagonist]

It sounds like you should just unsubscribe then.

I don't use the gamepass service, because I don't think it would be a good value for me personally (especially given missed months). But I can see how other people would like it.

And despite your angry rantings, I still fail to see how this is a 'rip-off'. You knew the terms, and you chose to subscribe. Nobody held a gun to your head, and nobody lied to you.

As has been pointed out multiple times, these terms are analagous to any other monthly subscription service. I know that I have paid for FilePlanet download services, MMO subscriptions, etc., that I didn't use during a given period.

But do you think those companies would give me my money back, contrary to the agreement I chose to participate in, if I asked them? Of course not.

I think most of us agree with you -- the terms could be friendlier, and as it is, you're likely to pay wasted subscription fees. So I (and I think most people here) choose not to participate.

But I don't think Real is to blame. They haven't done anything shady -- they've just provided you an offer that you probably shouldn't have chosen to participate in.

Maybe you should have a talk with the guy who signed you up for the service...

[Leper]

Well, you guys are right in the essence that its not a ripoff because I knew what I was getting going into it. I have unsubscribed ;)

What irks me the most is that there are other services that are way better, and because I was not aware of them I felt the sting of the great ripoff. Of course, I should maybe say I was "hustled" not ripped off.

The term rip off I'm using too loosely I admit, it was to get your attention though! It does feel like a ripoff, but it is not because they laid it out and I agreed to it. But compared to what others are offering, it sure is a ripoff! Once you know what else you can get.

It's the same as seeing a camera for 400 and buying it then going back home and finding out your best friend got the same make and model at the same time for 200. You would feel ripped off, even though you knew the price of the camera was 400 and accepted it. OF course the moral of the story is to shop price and research before purchasing goods / services. But STILL! dangit! @#$@#$ I still am feeling ripped off :-(

[DFG]

I think you are ripping off game developers by using a subscription service that devalues the hard work of developers so greatly. You should be ashamed of yourself - I bet you shop at Walmart ;)

[Leper]

mehh if I really like a game I'll buy it full and full.

[Anthony Flack]

Ho! It becomes a rip-off as soon as someone else come up with something cheaper, then? Well, it's not going to stop there. Expect even better deals to come, as the casual games market becomes a straight commodities market.

Of course, don't expect to be making much money developing these games; but no sense whining about it because it's inevitable.

[DFG]

Joking aside, I actually was told once that only 15% of people regularly use their subscriptions. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it would be very interesting to see how many go unused. I think it may be the same idea as rebates. I bet a small percentage of people actually use those.

[ggambett]

What is the point of your original post exactly? Essentially, what you say is that with your GamePass subscription you can get one free game each month, and the free games don't stack. While this seems to be a worse deal than BFG's, it's not a ripoff in any way.

Besides venting your "anger", what did you expect with this thread when you went into Hulk mode and started screaming "ARRRR! RIPOFFF!!! I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND/LIKE THE TERMS AND I SIGNED ANYWAY!!! GRRRHHH!! RIPOFFF!!!"?

[Fabio]

I wonder what he would do (machine gun people?) the day he will realize how many REAL injustices there are in this world. Maybe reading some newspaper some time will trigger it, and then he will grab his machine gun and fix this ill world. ;)

[HairyTroll]

The GamePass comes in every month, and it allows you to unlock one game! But if you fail to use it, they just take your money.

You have obviously never had a gym membership before.

And with most cell phone companies, your unused free minutes do not roll over to the next month.

And with NetFlix, you are charged a subscription free each month even if you do not rent any movies.

If you don't like it, don't subscribe. What's the big deal?

[Frozen In Ice]

What was the purpose of this thread? :confused: Ah well, never mind... :rolleyes:

[Leper]

I have a gym membership, and yeah, I GET your point! Had I known that I was paying more for something I shouldnt have, then I would have never been a gamepass member in the first place!

I was pretty upset when I found out I was losing moeny, but I'm over it now, really it doesnt matter, not a big deal. I wouldnt midn if this thread got removed, but then again, if it stayed it would be interesting to see how many more people would be ready to jump to the defense of the subscription based industry.

[LilGames]

What's really ridiculous about this rant is that less than 1.5 years ago Big Fish didn't even HAVE a subscription / GamePass option.

[Leper]

What's really ridiculous about this rant is that less than 1.5 years ago Big Fish didn't even HAVE a subscription option.

well its like a subscription its more like a coupon thing where you buy 6 games for 6.99 a month (or something like that) and they take out 6.99 a month and u get a game every month. Its way better than a subscription imho. I was camparing the two because hey gamepass is kinda like that they take money out every month and u use ur gamepass coupon like with bigfish :cool:

Anyways, this rant was pretty silly and embarresing :o

[mahlzeit]

I think this is a very good thread because it shows the lengths to which a dissatisfied/disappointed customer is willing to go -- and the lack of understanding he receives from you guys. What if Leper was *your* customer?

Apparently Leper didn't get what he thought he was buying so it's perfectly understandable that he's upset about it. Big companies don't care, but you should. This is one area where smaller companies can outshine the big boys: it's good business to actually care about your customers.

Of course, some customers are idiots and their demands are crazy. But not in this case. I'm not saying Real should change their subscription model, but they could make it up to Leper. Now he probably won't be doing business with Real anytime soon... if ever.

Don't let this happen to your customers! :)

[amaranth]

I think we shouldn't harp at Leper. Instead, maybe we can learn from him? I think it's important to remember that the industry is always shifting and morphing. What customers want one day can change the next. In the restaurant business, there is an old saying: if you hear one customer complain about their dinner, there are at least 10 others who silently feel the same way. The result? 11 lost customers.

So what I've gotten out of this... Leper says game portals should have more flexible game passes, more games, and keep their web designs fresh and new.

So, in many ways, Leper is sending a warning to game portals. Stay on top of the trends or lose customers!

:p

[Fabio]

Apparently Leper didn't get what he thought he was buying so it's perfectly understandable that he's upset about it.It makes me think of those EULA's you're supposed to read very carefully before hitting the "Continue with Setup" button.
If one REALLY read them, he/she would have finished by the time a new release of the software is available, and then you should read the EULA again, because you can't be sure it hasn't changed as well. :D

You know, many lawyers have an art to make documents much more complex and long than they really oughta be.. :(

[Hiro_Antagonist]

I guess I should go ahead and say that while I 'defended' Real a bit earlier in the thread, I work in the RealArcade group now, and I actually brought this thread up to my boss as an example of the ways that our decisions affect customers in very real ways.

Now, I certainly stand by and believe everything I said earlier -- that there really isn't a problem w/ this subscription offer in my own opinion. But Real does have a bit of a reputation in the public, warrented or not, for making decisions in its own interests at the expense of the user/customer. But I think that reputation comes from far more controversial features than the subscription offer discussed in this thread.

For my part, I am trying to rebel against the more controversial decisions. It should be obvious to anyone that the more offensive feature decisions are by no means made by evil people rubbing their hands together figuring out how to exploit the customer. (I point this out, because often people let themselves believe this is the case, when that's totally absurd.)

The way they happen is that, just like at any public company, it is everyone's job to maximize revenue. And in pursuit of that goal, sometimes people come up with ideas to increase revenue without realizing the severe and negative impact it will have on the customer experience, and in the end, Real's (or any company's) reputation. Of course, usually the people who's job it is to come up with and implement these things have fairly little user empathy, because user empathy isn't their job. Maximizing revenue is their job. And they were hired because they're good at finding those opportunities. And the people who would raise the red flags aren't really involved in the pipeline of proposing or approving those ideas. And that's how it goes. Real certainly isn't the only place it happens, nor are they close to the worst offenders (in my opinion.)

Anyway, this subscription thing is one of the least of my concerns. Its terms are very up-front, and the subscription is fully optional. I think there are things worth rebelling against in this industry, but this isn't one of them.

And let me clarify that I'm simply speaking as a guy that happens to work (as an independant contractor) at Real. I'm absolutely not speaking on their behalf in any way.

[Frozen In Ice]

Anyways, this rant was pretty silly and embarresing :o

I'm not harping on you Leper. I just found the way the thread was started seemed a little off the wall. Mind you, I was a little low on coffee at the time, but my opinion still stands. It could have been written much better to begin with and with more of a business like approach. I think the resulting responses would have been somewhat different and little more focused.:)

[KNau]

At the same time there is a lesson in customer service here.

Which cost more money - to give the customer a friggin' game or the loss of their monthly fee? It's Real Arcade who lost out financially on the transaction in question.

And now how many people might read this rant and not join Real Arcade as a result? I know I'm never signing up for their service because of all the crap I've heard about them. That's more business out the window, never to return - because in the end there is no reason to choose Real Arcade over any other portal. They both carry virtually identical content and have the same general "get a free game" offers. It's the customer experience that's going to make the difference.

That's what's sad - It's not even greed ("Ha! We have your money!") that's the root cause, it's just laziness ("Meh, we can't be arsed to help you").

Just think - the orignating post could have read "But Real Arcade let me pick a game and now we're all happy. I highly recommend them!". instead for the next X weeks there's a thread called "Real Arcade Rips Customers Off". Think about it.

[Frozen In Ice]

Just think - the orignating post could have read "But Real Arcade let me pick a game and now we're all happy. I highly recommend them!". instead for the next X weeks there's a thread called "Real Arcade Rips Customers Off". Think about it.

I realize that and I understand the point thank you.

[arcadetown]

Sounds like you've done exactly what those with subscription packages or similar want, bite on a deep discount price then quickly forget about it while you continue being charged. Both offerings are betting you'd do exactly that. Great for them as they collect 100% when you don't use it while devs get a few extra sales at deep discounted prices.

[Anthony Flack]

What if Leper was *your* customer?
What if? Are we supposed to be practicing our customer service responses here? Bottom line: Leper wants cheaper games and better suscription deals. As the business gets ever-more competitive, it's bound to happen. The other thing that's going to happen eventually is that royalties paid to developers will stop being measured in dollars and start being measured in cents.

[Leper]

What if? Are we supposed to be practicing our customer service responses here? Bottom line: Leper wants cheaper games and better suscription deals. As the business gets ever-more competitive, it's bound to happen. The other thing that's going to happen eventually is that royalties paid to developers will stop being measured in dollars and start being measured in cents.

Honestly, if its a good game I pay more for it! I paid full price for Nexic's games, platypus, and intermediaware games. Just to name a few!

[LilGames]

I think Leper is in BigFish's pockets.





Just kidding. ;-)

[Anthony Flack]

Honestly, if its a good game I pay more for it!

Oh yes, there will still be a market for "premium" games I'm sure. And first-party sales from developers will continue. But casual games on major portals are going to get cheaper and more commodified, betcha.