Clones like Diner dash?

[Dyno Kid]

Hi Guys,

I'm just starting out on my 1st project making Dyno Kid, a unique and simple puzzle game.

I have looked on some casual portals for possible release info and was shocked by the number of clones of certain games like Diner Dash.

What can the owner of the IP do to stop clones?

After reading Edge mag last month there was an article about copyright where i read sega sued simpsons hit and run for cloning crazy taxi.

The game i'm planning is very original and i don't want any clones so is there anything one can do to stop these rip offs?

Darren.

[Anthony Flack]

The bad news is that there's very little you can do to prevent it.

The good news is that everyone is likely to be too busy cloning Diner Dash to worry about you. Unless your game becomes a smash hit, in which case expect everybody to fall over themselves in their hurry to rip you off. But that probably won't happen.

[cliffski]

Hi Guys,

I have looked on some casual portals for possible release info and was shocked by the number of clones of certain games like Wild West Wendy.



just fixed that quote for you.

[Dyno Kid]

Cletus Clay looks like a stunner of a game.

Who did the artwork?

When is it out?

Nice work.

Darren.

[Anthony Flack]

Thank you. I did it all myself. It's out when it's finished - stll not for a while, yet.

[Indiepath]

just fixed that quote for you.
I assume you meant clones of Tapper.

[Anthony Flack]

I've said this before and I guess I'll say it again: Tapper is mechanically a totally different game, it just shares the same theme.

[Applewood]

The game i'm planning is very original and i don't want any clones so is there anything one can do to stop these rip offs?

Just don't worry about it. I'm pretty sure that all the bejewelled rip-off games put together won't hold a candle to bejewelled sales and the same should apply to you if you don't drop the ball. If nothing else you'll get a years lead time.

[Matthew]

The short of it is this: Nobody will clone your game unless it's wildly succesful. And if your game is wildly succesful you win. Don't waste energy worrying about clones.

[Ricardo C]

I've said this before and I guess I'll say it again: Tapper is mechanically a totally different game, it just shares the same theme.

If BBB can't be called a clone of Tapper, then how can DD be called a clone of BBB?

BBB is closer to tapper than Diner Dash is to Betty's Beer Bar.

Which is not a slight against Gabriel at all, since I don't give a rat's ass about the whole clone debate, but let's call a spade a spade.

BBB owes its basic game mechanic to Tapper: Serve beer to customers before they get mad and you lose the game. Diner Dash didn't so much clone BBB as built on the basic premise.

Artistically, I prefer BBB. It has far more character than DD. I wish it had been the one to bring in the millions and not DD. But Diner Dash doesn't deserve to be bashed as a clone.

[Anthony Flack]

I wasn't the one who bashed Diner Dash as a clone; I've never even played it so I'll leave that to others. I have a feeling that the colour/combo system which I understand Diner Dash has may have given it some much-needed extra strategy.

But I remember BBB from the very early days, with its left/right hand mechanism (a shame games like that aren't more marketable because that was much more interesting). It's clearly derived from the idea of being a bartender, it's not derived from Tapper.

BBB owes its basic game mechanic to Tapper: Serve beer to customers before they get mad and you lose the game

That's not mechanics. That's theme. Take away the customers and the beer from Tapper and replace them with aliens and lasers, and there would be no association between them at all. In Tapper, you shoot beer at advancing ranks of customers, trying to blast them out the door, while being careful not to drop any glasses. It's not even remotely similar. It just happens to be the only other game about serving beer.

[Ricardo C]

For me they feel the same: Fill the order before time is up. In tapper, the "clock" ticking down is represented by the advancing patrons, and in BBB it's represented by the changing moods of the customers. The end result is the same. You're given visual cues that increase the pressure you're under.

If I make Collapse but use a slingshot to "shoot" at the bricks I want to remove rather than just clicking on them, it looks different, but the gameplay remains the same.

[Anthony Flack]

This kind of rationale could result in you concluding that all games are basically the same thing, barring details, and we end up with that absurd old argument that all games are clones of each other.

The single common element that links BBB and Tapper is the bartender theme - once you get beyond that, virtually every single mechanical detail is handled totally differently. If it wasn't for the beer, nobody would even have thought of Tapper.

Having the customers reach the end of the bar isn't even the most common way to lose a game of Tapper; it's breaking glasses you have to watch out for. The two games have about as much mechanical similarity as Breakout and Tetris, and to argue that one is a clone of the other is stretching the definition of clone until it becomes completely meaningless. I don't even believe you when you say they feel the same. I actually don't think you really mean that. Play one of them after the other and tell me they are the same game.

[Ricardo C]

This kind of rationale could result in you concluding that all games are basically the same thing, barring details, and we end up with that absurd old argument that all games are clones of each other.

I didn't call BBB a clone of Tapper, I just said it owes more to it than DD owes to BBB. So if the latter's a clone (and yes, I know it wasn't you who brought it up), then BBB must be one too (not that I believe it).

The single common element that links BBB and Tapper is the bartender theme - once you get beyond that, virtually every single mechanical detail is handled totally differently. If it wasn't for the beer, nobody would even have thought of Tapper.

Having the customers reach the end of the bar isn't even the most common way to lose a game of Tapper; it's breaking glasses you have to watch out for. The two games have about as much mechanical similarity as Breakout and Tetris, and to argue that one is a clone of the other is stretching the definition of clone until it becomes completely meaningless. I don't even believe you when you say they feel the same. I actually don't think you really mean that. Play one of them after the other and tell me they are the same game.


-Patron demands service.
-Player moves to a fixed location to get the requested beverage.
-Player fills order.

It could have been soda. It could have been food. It could have been glazed turds. The resemblance is there, just as Cake Mania has more than a little of Pressured Cooker in it. (Note to self: Make burger-themed Cake Mania clone).

Sorry you don't believe me, but I do see the similarities between the two games, and I see BBB as being inspired by Tapper.

[svero]

Make a really bad game. If the game doesnt sell nobody will clone it. Problem solved :-)

[Anthony Flack]

Okay, I don't really want to get into an extended discussion about this (it's a bit silly, I know), but BBB has been called a Tapper clone 3 or 4 times here in the past so I thought it was time to address that.

What BBB has been inspired by is bartending. Perhaps Gabriel was aware of Tapper when BBB was made, perhaps not, but the gameplay certainly shows no sign of being based on it (and that's even more true in the early versions, which were a very literal bartending simulator). Any common elements between the two games are only superficially related due do both being built around the theme of serving customers. To put it another way, BBB has much more in common with actually working in a bar than it does with Tapper.

Because when you look at it point by point:

Control method:
BBB - point and click on a destination, Betty makes her way there by pathfinding. You serve customers by completing different tasks in the correct sequence.
Tapper - Up and down causes the bartender to travel instantaneously between 4 set positions. He can also slowly move along the bar to collect tips and glasses. Action button instantly fires a glass whenever you are in one of the 4 set positions. You can fire 2 or 3 glasses a second, however you are not serving the customers directly; you're really shooting beer at them.

The round ends when:
BBB - your time is up
Tapper - you have blasted all the customers out the door.

Failure:
BBB - You don't make enough money by the end of the round
Tapper - you don't catch a returning glass, you fire a glass to nobody, or a customer reaches the end of the bar

Keeping a customer waiting:
BBB - They leave. You lose money.
Tapper - They are harder to get out the door. They are more dangerous firing their glasses, but their tips are easier to collect. If they get too close, you die.

And so on.

You can see that, although they both share some basic elements of real-life bartending (serving customers quickly, collecting money), the way the elements have been portrayed is quite different between the two games. It has always mystified me when people here have said that BBB was like Tapper, since there are so many massive differences between them. I truly don't think they are part of the same lineage at all - Tapper almost feels more like Space Invaders.

[cyrus_zuo]

I see BBB as having started the whole 'click-management' genre. The game is about properly using your mouse-clicks. DD built on it, but even Playfirst mentions BBB as an 'inspiration' for DD.

The best way to make a new and unique game that will become the standard is to make it the best it can possibly be. History is littered with the remains of companies that came up with the idea first, only to fail and watch someone who did their idea better become the phenomenon they were sure they would be.

Being 'the best' can mean being more polished, better marketed or more intuitive. Being released first is good, but it has to be a first-class product in every aspect of the business to become the known 'brand.' Being released first isn't a large enough barrier that other companies won't be able to quickly overcome it, unless you have firmly established yourself as not just a good concept, but an amazingly polished and well-put together game that meets AAA standard and have made powerful steps in the market.

The lack of those things, honestly, is the reason BBB isn't as known as DD. It's the same reason that Puzzle Loop isn't known, but Zuma is. The originators came up with the idea, but didn't hit first-class. Someone else, perhaps someone with the money or inventiveness to get it the rest of the way, picked up and finished the deal. There were more opportunities for just ideas, perhaps in the past, but currently I believe the ideas must be amazingly well produced **IF** your goal is to become the major brand/phenomenon that many of us dream of in our heads :).

Companies that accomplish the perception of being 'first' or the 'originator brand' typically are well-funded and have large staffs. They will protect what their investments through verbal and financial (http://www.rethinkip.com/rssmojo/archives/copyright_lawsuit_filing_update_through_august_6_2 006.html) means.