Combining action with puzzles/learning

[MedievalElks]

Are there examples of games that do this? i.e., you need to solve puzzles to get to the next level in an action game. I loved Myst/Riven, but not sure I'd call that "action". I'm thinking of faster twitch games that might incorporate solving some puzzle/pattern to conquer the level.

[mot]

Finding blue and red keys counts or not?

[MedievalElks]

Hmmm...let me try to give an example. How about a space shooter where the level has three different colored enemies. The background starfield periodically changes to one of those colors, at which time that color ship is vulnerable.

Or maybe you have to discover numeric patterns in the enemies. Say you have enemy probes attacking you, each with a different number of antennae, or lights, or straight edges, or something. You have to take them out sequentially (or maybe Fibonnaci style?) or your shots just bounce off.

I'm kicking around ideas for just such a game and was wondering if it had been done before. Everything's been done before, so it's just a matter of finding something similar I guess.

[lakibuk]

My game Bound Around combines action with logical puzzle solving.

[zppz]

Half-life 2 comes to mind...

[LilGames]

Resident Evil? Silent Hill?
...

[Surrealix]

As it happens I was talking about this with a friend recently. I'm a Myst fan, and was wondering about games that have a decent puzzle/action mix. Finding red/blue keys doesn't count, and I wouldn't call anything in HL2 a puzzle - it's just not in the same league as puzzles in Myst/Riven.

Something with genuienly difficult puzzles, as well as decent bouts of action would really interest me. The trouble is, I think, that the Myst type fans and Action Game/FPS fans are two totally different audiences which rarely overlap. FPS gamers get bored/stuck on puzzles, and people who play puzzle games don't enjoy mindless destruction/whatever. Broad stereotyping, but that's the impression I get.

[Anthony Flack]

That's the main reason why you won't find much of a mix of hard puzzles and hard action together. Since the only people who could play it would have to be good at both - and would have to be in the mood for both at the same time. Which is a strange kind of mood to be in.

However if you set things up so that you can do either a hard puzzle or a hard action sequence... or put the hardest puzzles/hardest action bits as secondary goals rather than essential progression points, then you could be on to something.

[lakibuk]

I am a fan of mixing action with puzzles.
There are several classics in this genre.
Remember Boulder Dash or Solomon's Key?
Or Space Station Silicon Valley for the connaisseur.

[jankoM]

yes your bound around and the examples you mention are IMO examples of best blends of action and puzzle. These are vell balanced on both sides and pleasant to play. Well now that I think of it I would say tetris and zuma also could go to this category (but not bejeweld for example).

[barrygamer]

Or maybe you have to discover numeric patterns in the enemies. Say you have enemy probes attacking you, each with a different number of

Hi,

The first thing that popped into my brain was the old ZX Spectrum game, Quazatron. Basically it was an isometric robot game, but you could upgrade parts by 'grappling' another robot. This part of the game was a seperate puzzle game. Its hard to explain... Screenshots below -- the grapple screen is the red one, half way down.

http://www.crashonline.org.uk/29/quazatron.htm

[MibUK]

Hi,

The first thing that popped into my brain was the old ZX Spectrum game, Quazatron. Basically it was an isometric robot game, but you could upgrade parts by 'grappling' another robot. This part of the game was a seperate puzzle game. Its hard to explain... Screenshots below -- the grapple screen is the red one, half way down.

http://www.crashonline.org.uk/29/quazatron.htm

there was a sequal called Paradroid if I remember correctly (or maybe it was a rip off of the same engine, I forget, I was only about 8).
there is a linux version of the game called freedroid that is similar, although I'm not sure that the minigame is included (which defeats half the point I guess).

Ah the days when I was happy with 5 minute loading times, and had to be careful not to nock the mic and ear cables from the tape player :)

[soniCron]

The best of all-time: ZZT (http://autofish.net/creation/video_games/zzt/) *waits for others to provide links to MegaZeux, Super ZZT, Kroz, etc.*

Another excellent action-puzzle (with emphasis on puzzle) is Kye (http://games.moria.org.uk/kye/).

[barrygamer]

there was a sequal called Paradroid if I remember correctly (or maybe it was a rip off of the same engine, I forget, I was only about 8).
there is a linux version of the game called freedroid that is similar, although I'm not sure that the minigame is included (which defeats half the point I guess).


yeah, paradriod was also by Hewson, but for C64. Freedroid looks fun, I didnt know about that. The mini-game *is* there, its in the screenshots.
Anyways, in regards to this thread, it depends what people mean by 'combining' action and puzzle. That mini-game worked well because it kind of felt like you were hacking into the other robot, and taking its parts. I mean, the puzzle game really worked well with the overall theme of the game.

later,
barry

[TimS]

Sokoban puzzles plus timing-based 'action' elements = Blobyrinth. We're not quite done with it, but it might suit your needs if sokoban is puzzly enough for ye.


Remember Boulder Dash or Solomon's Key?
Oh my... the hours I put into those two games. Solomon's Key got really nasty late in the game. I think I'm going to have nightmares now.

-Tim

[jefferytitan]

Even snakes would qualify - lots of action, a little planning (i.e. planning ways so you don't get caught by your own tail). Perhaps something where good planning will prevent the need to be a hardcore action person, whereas if you apply no brainpower you have to muscle it out.