Best publisher

[Undertaker]

Hi all,:)

What do you think, which publisher (a company that will help you sell your game downloadable and/or retail too) is the best choice for a developer to offer his game to?

Do you think it is better for $$$ making to contact portals directly ? Which portals ?


For example I know Popcap.com is offering a publishing services for the right game.
Do you think POPCAP is the worthiest?
Or are there some that have better reputation or are better to cooperate with?

What other casual game (downloadable market) publishers do you know? I know there must be plenty of them, but which would you recommend and which not?

What royalties (%) can you expect from the publishers ? Are they offering payments in advance and royalties as well?

What royalty (%) do they get from their partners (that are selling the game directly to many people - like portals, ...) ?

How much % is it finally going to be for the developer if cooperating with publisher?

Plenty of questions :) right? Specialists - please answer :)

Thank you!:cool:

[Emmanuel]

It depends what you need from a publisher. Actual ones can offer any or all of the following:

- Design/implementation feedback wrt. the target audience
- User testing
- Royalty advance
- Distribution to major online channels (portals)
- Distribution on other media -- retail, mobile, etc.

Guys like Playfirst and Popcap will do all of the above (provided your game is great, and has potential, obviously). We (Bigfish) also may do all of the above although we are not aggressively pursuing to publish games (we will, when a game is outstanding, like Fish Tycoon, but we're not actively trying to build a portfolio). Sometimes developers just use us for distribution, since we can place games on Yahoo and AOL, which are difficult to access for an independent developer. Personallly, before trading funpause to BigFish, I used them for user testing and distribution with outstanding results (both Atlantis and Fairies got almost 100% placement on major channels and paid off really well).

There's also the question of who owns the resulting intellectual property. Playfirst will own the IP of your game, its brand, and resulting sequels (obviously the specifics will depend on your game and what you discuss with them; they're good guys). We (Bigfish) do not seek to own your IP. Essentially if your game is a bomb you're probably better off with a model like Playfirst (although that may burn a few bridges), while if your game is a hit you're probably better off with a model like ours.

Best regards,
Emmanuel

[arcadetown]

There's lots of options and more coming all the time. Some bigger ones include Real/Gamehouse, BigFish, PlayFirst, IWin, Sandlot, Oberon, Trymedia, Alawar, and Popcap to name a few.

Definitely look for one that can push your game as far and wide as possible with direct relationships to the likes of Yahoo, MSN, AOL, Real, BigFish, ArcadeTown, etc. Other features to consider... Some will let you keep current direct relationships and they'll push it elsewhere. Some will seek IP rights while others won't. Some can push to retail. Some can push international. Some are much more selective. Some will push your game harder. Some have better deals than you on your own could get. Some put fees into their equations such as bandwidth charges. Most let you keep credit and even a splash screen (good point Jason).

I'd demand well in excess of 50% of their net in distribution and a good bit higher than their stock rate on their own portal (if applies).

Myself I'd push direct as I'm that kind of guy. A publisher doesn't really help with a weak seller as large sites like Yahoo won't accept weak sellers no matter who from, and a strong seller can get direct deals most everywhere. So the only big differences are really how far they can push your title, can the publisher get a better rate than on own that offsets their %, and do you want to do marketing.

[Jason Chong]

How many will allow you to keep your credits ?

I've heard so many things about portals insisting all reference to your credits/company/webpage to be removed.

This to me is kinda a big turn off since I can't build a brand/company name out of my efforts.

[berserker]

Brian, you've forgot about couple of important things regarding publisher - funding and production. So on earlier stages publisher can offer more variety of things than when the game is nearly done. So I say yes, if you already have a complete or nearly complete game go direct.

However as production values grow its harder and harder for unestablished developers to come with decent title without publisher.

[Hidden Sanctum]

I've heard so many things about portals insisting all reference to your credits/company/webpage to be removed.

That's actually a big concern of mine. I love all genres, but my true love is Adventure Games. Those are something that I will be selling directly from my site. I'm trying to build my company's reputation up and get my name out there. It does me no good whatsoever if I have a hit game and people think it was made by Alawar for example. Short term it might mean more money, but long term I think it hurts.

It's like saying Geffen made Appetite For Destruction - not Guns-n-Roses, DoubleDay wrote the Da Vinci Code - not Dan Brown, and Sierra created Half-Life - not Valve.

Is there a listing of which portals do not allow you to keep references to your credits/company/webpage in your games?

[Undertaker]

Maybe now it is good time to name some publishers that are worthy to cooperate with?

Can you tell your top 10 publishers?

Can a portal (like bigfish or yahoo or aol or realarcade) do the same or even better job in promoting and selling you game like a publisher (for example popcap, garagegames, gametrust, trymedia, gamehouse, ?..etc..?)

In the case a portal can spread your game better or equal to a publisher - and you can get for example 30% of the full price (19USD) from a portal - then dont you think it is better cooperate directly with portals? and not with publishers?
because publisher will get for example 50% from his portal partners - and then give developer 30% from his 50% - and developer ends up with 1 or 2 $ for a sold unit.

Am i right?

what do you think?

[svero]

Actually portals generally only ask that links be removed. I've never heard of portals demanding developers remove all their credits. The only exception might be if your company was colled something.com which is a defacto link

[Hidden Sanctum]

Actually portals generally only ask that links be removed. I've never heard of portals demanding developers remove all their credits. The only exception might be if your company was colled something.com which is a defacto link

'Links' as in active links that you can click on or links as in the address to your website? I'll assume you mean both.;)

[svero]

Either or. It doesn't have to be an active link.

[Undertaker]

I am disgusted once again..

I cannot believe publishers and/or portals require to remove the name of the creators!:eek:
Do you have some examples of games that are published (or distributed) by a publisher/portal that forced them to remove their company logo or name or their website link?

If it is true, which portals require it and which publishers? so we can avoid them? :mad:

Would you go into business with a portal or publisher that demands this? If yes, under what conditions?

[Mike Boeh]

I know of no publisher that makes you remove your name or company name.

[Hidden Sanctum]

I guess it goes to show you shouldn't jump to conclusions when someone starts a sentence with "I heard...";)

[Undertaker]

:( sometimes it seems like, some of you guys do not know much about these topics. I was trying to get some more specific info, not just the rumors - and the problem is - everyone has its own rumors. One heard - they require to remove company name from the games, another one - never heard of it..
The truth is obviously in the middle - there are some that require it and some that dont. :rolleyes:

Yeah, whatever.. ;)

[svero]

The reason you're having trouble getting specifics is because publishing contracts typically contain NDA sections. (Non Disclosure Agreement) Basically they say.. if you sign this contract you can't go around telling others what the deal is. So I can't go through all my contracts and say.. well bigfish gives me x% and real gives me x% but i can do x,y and z etc... without violating the terms of those agreements. The kind of publisher "feature comparison chart" you're looking for isn't going to happen unless the publishers all make their standard deals public.

[Hidden Sanctum]

Undertaker - I know its frustrating, but the only real answer here is to make your game and contact the portals. That's the only way you will find the answers you seek. I realize this is the great unknown which makes it difficult to try and plan ahead and run a business - not to mention causing lots of sleepless nights.

Its the same with trying to get sales numbers from developers. Many of them are just not allowed to tell you even if they were given that information.

I would like to think that the first game is truly the hardest because there are so many things you have to figure out - registration keys, online storefronts, possible portal contracts, installation programs, bandwidth expectations on your website, etc. Once you cross that line though, it's much easier to create the next game because you know what to expect.

Right now I'm finishing up my first game...of course, I've been "finishing up" this thing for months now. I keep going back, tweaking, and second guessing myself. I would hope that after this one, the next will be much easier because I'll know what to expect and I won't repeat some of the mistakes I made on putting this one together.

So again, the only way you will get real answers to these questions is to put your nose to the grindstone and experience it for yourself.;)

For those that have been there, does this seem correct?

[Undertaker]

Dear Hidden Sanctum, and all others...;)

I think your response is the wisest. Of course I know that nothing and noone will give me answers to the questions that i am truly seeking for because there is not one. The only way to know it is to experience it. I just wanted to hear some others' specific experiences with some publishers. And name them so, others can know what to expect at least approximately.

I mentioned some specific portals and publishers and no one gave some real answers about recommending some publishers or portals. Everyone is hiding good info and I understand that. But the only thing I dont like are those "rumors" - that - I've heard something.. and etc.. Almost every post on this forum is pesimistic, or "realistic" (describing reality like something hard to achieve,..) and I think this cannot be true. There must be some negative expriences but some positive as well. And I'd like to hear it specificaly - like - for example publisher XYZ gave me fantastic deal - i recommend to cooperate with him - he demands these things, and allows these things... You know what I mean.

Not mentioning specific recommendation or bad experiences is useless.
I bet anyone can profit from others experiences, the only problem is - in these topics here - majority of posts is pesimistic or very neutral and I think discourages others. Arent there any great examples of something like: "guys! i made fantastic deal with XYZ publisher and I got some nice money by selling my game"..

I know you will not want to say some real specific numbers, but rough numbers can be mentioned, right? or at least describe it with words..

I am just saying that I feel somewhat frustrated reading this forum. I am sure you know what I mean..

Well, OK, :cool: just keep posting some REAL info here, not frustrating short rumors only :eek:

[Sakura Games]

You ask for info that are of course reserved. Then what you want to know? everyone has different experiences. You can get user XYZ here saying "I made a big deal with XXX". And so? what value it has? for 1 that post who had a nice experience you can have 1000 that didn't post that had bad one.

Just use your time to make a great game - with it you'll have good experiences with any publisher.

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Financial/royalty data is very hard to come by, as the others have indicated.

Some thoughts on the general issue of publishers:

Publishers provide a lot of services. The exact services vary somewhat by publisher and by what the developer needs, but can include:

Funding (advances)
Development assistance (of various sorts - art, design, sometimes programming)
Testing
Biz-Dev (i.e. Distribution - getting your game onto the portals and into other channels).

For this, the publisher takes a cut of the revenue pie, of course. But the revenue pie will very likely be bigger because of the publisher's involvement, often much bigger. The publisher will help you make a better game (so it sells more), get it on more portals, and probably get a better deal with each portal. The publisher will likely get a much higher percentage, from, say, RealArcade, than you could get on your own. After the publisher's take, it will likely be less than you could have gotten from RealArcade, but perhaps not as MUCH less as it would appear on first blush.

As the others have said, there's not really a cookie-cutter formula for this - the only way you can really determine what's best is to show your game around to different publishers and talk to them. The biggest publishers are quite selective, and only publish a fraction of what's shown to them, so make sure your game is as polished/complete as possible before showing to them (though even if you regard your game as 100% done they'll still likely want changes).

[Undertaker]

Thanks guys, I understand all.. There just must be something that you cannot find even on the internet, right? ;)
I just wanted to hear some of your experiences with some specific publishers, but yeah, I didnt mention any of my specific experiences neither, right? So we better leave it all as it is and fight to survive:rolleyes: