Cliffski in Develop Mag!

[Fost]

June edition of develop landed this morning - the letters section features a letter from Cliffski - pointing out that most of the games industry is in denial of indie gaming.


Go Cliffski!

[vjvj]

Awesome, congrats!

[Jamie W]

Excellent! Nice letter Cliffski!

[cliffski]

any excuse to bash my old boss in print :D

[Viridian]

Can you post the article on your site so that those of us not in the UK can read it?

[Jamie W]

Is it possible to be independent ...

About five years ago my disbelief at Peter Molyneux's assertion that 'all games cost at least a million dollars' led me to write a letter to Develop to dispute this opinion. I can see nothing has changed in his view of independent gaming in those five years, even after I spent two of them working for him!

His predictions of doom for any potential new studio without million dollar backing are even less true now than five years ago.

Broadband pentration is higher, the consoles are embracing downloadable small games, the PC downloadable market is booming, and finally the games press are following their readers into exploring the indie games market.

The only two institutions still in denial about indie gaming are the publishers, who find themselves instantly cut out of their prime middle-man position by direct sales, and the big bloated developers terrified of losing their key staff to new energetic start-ups. What better way to ensure your key staff stay in their cubicles than to constantly warm them of the certainty of failure as a start-up?

My advice to anyone thinking of going for it alone is to go for it. There has never been a more welcoming markey for small truly independent gaming.

[Ricardo C]

Very inspiring :)

[Applewood]

Heh, didn't know Cliffski worked for Molyneux.

Please tell me you weren't one of his little boy entourage! :)

[Savant]

Oh please. Let's not start bad mouthing Molyneux until we come up with games as innovative as his.

[Ricardo C]

"Little boy entourage"?? Unless this is a piece of slang I don't get, that sounds pretty inflammatory and not at all joke material. What the hell is that about?

[electronicStar]

I want to know about the "little boy entourage" too:p

[Sysiphus]

Jamie W , I hope that is true :) .I'm getting more and more near to become a full (or at least since lunch till night) indy artist for feeding indy projects with graphics, along with my own personal slow project.

One good measure while in the inbetweens of getting enough income, may be what I'm trying to get now: getting a half time job to pay the flat, having so like 5 hours a day for indy stuff...

Clifski, said in other thread, but I'm happy a gentle guy having success ! :)

(btw, JamieW I see you work making mobile and gba stuff...just the world I've been at ...till now..the company I was at , broke... while the products were excellent...please no one think anymore being in a job is "safe" anymore...what is more; there you don't have control of how the thing is really going on in $ matters...and usually while workers tend to be fantastic, investors often just start to think they'd love to invest now in a new business, even if the one already is getting great benefits...they don't mind ppl loosing jobs, etc. )

[Applewood]

I want to know about the "little boy entourage" too

So do I actually, hence my little prod to see if I could find out more.

I'm sure there's no intimation of any sexual untowardness here, I certainly didn't want to make that impression. My post was a bit too tongue-in-cheek towards that topic though, for which I apologise.

I'd better not say anymore.

[cliffski]

Ah well, what can you say eh?
But no. :D

[whisperstorm]

I wish there was an organization that could "incubate" indie games like there are for web 2.0 startups. Provide support, networking, engines, etc etc. Sorta like a Y Combinator for indie games ( http://ycombinator.com/ ).

[robleong]

Great stuff, cliffski! Let's frighten the big boys! :D

[electronicStar]

Great stuff, cliffski! Let's frighten the big boys! :D ...And not the little boys :D

[dmikesell]

Nice inspiring letter, but is it true? Seems most here answer the oft-asked "do you make money as an Indie" query with a resounding "no" every time it comes up. Is the success rate of Indie businesses as good or better than the studios?

[Teq]

Nice inspiring letter, but is it true? Seems most here answer the oft-asked "do you make money as an Indie" query with a resounding "no" every time it comes up. Is the success rate of Indie businesses as good or better than the studios?

So many factors involved with making money from indie development, your game is only a handful of said factors :)

Nice letter Cliffski, I'm sure The Movies is really an indie game in disguise ;)

[Savant]

The only two institutions still in denial about indie gaming are the publishers, who find themselves instantly cut out of their prime middle-man position by direct sales, and the big bloated developers terrified of losing their key staff to new energetic start-ups. What better way to ensure your key staff stay in their cubicles than to constantly warm them of the certainty of failure as a start-up?
But are we so blind that we don't see this coming for the indie industry? We already have the equivalent of publishers in the big portals. It's only a matter of time before they have complete control.

And after that, we'll move into a class system of developers with the big monoliths on top (PopCap, Reflexive, etc) and everyone else begging for scraps. We're already seeing the beginnings of this with Big Fish's top 10 list being dominated by the titles they produce in house.

It'll be just like the retail industry and then Molyneux will be right.

Look, I'm all for the indie spirit and rah-rah-rah speeches but the reality is that very few indies are actually behind that. Most are out to make a quick buck and it hurts the industry as a whole.

[Teq]

But are we so blind that we don't see this coming for the indie industry? We already have the equivalent of publishers in the big portals. It's only a matter of time before they have complete control.

And after that, we'll move into a class system of developers with the big monoliths on top (PopCap, Reflexive, etc) and everyone else begging for scraps. We're already seeing the beginnings of this with Big Fish's top 10 list being dominated by the titles they produce in house.

Just like the retail industry. And the Molyneux will be right.

Look, I'm all for the indie spirit and rah-rah-rah speeches but the reality is that very few indies are actually behind that. Most are out to make a quick buck and it hurts the industry as a whole.

I'm sure the likes of PopCap publish games developed by lesser indies, so would it really be the death knell of the industry, or just the middle man finding his way back into the fold?

[cliffski]

middle men only find their way in because people let them. I find it very easy to just delete all the emails wanting affiliate commission and so on. People believe all the nonsense they read about "let us sell your game and we will both be rich". It's usually total hype and bluster. Anyone who really thinks that by publishing your games you will make tens of thousands of dollars, should happily put the money up front.
Its *IS* a good time to be an indie. The problem is, most indie game makers arent thinking indie, they are thinking like outsourced codeshops for the casual game portals.

[Savant]

The problem is, most indie game makers arent thinking indie, they are thinking like outsourced codeshops for the casual game portals.
Well said. That's exactly right.

[Anthony Flack]

Nevertheless, I'd be quite happy to allow good middlemen to come in. Why should we do our own marketing, if someone else who's better at it can do it more efficiently and make you more money than you would on your own? (nb: rhetorical question; I know there are reasons not to).

Some people enjoy the marketing part. I don't think that's me. I'd be quite happy to let other people worry about selling the games if I could get on with making them. Of course, that leaves you open to exploitation, and you will often end up with the unfortunate situation of the middlemen holding all the power (it helps if there are lots of competing middlemen).

But there are good reasons for letting someone else handle your distribution; after all it's often said that we should play to our strengths. Time spent selling games is time not spent making games, and I think I'm much better at making than selling.

[Teq]

I couldn't sell water in a desert, marketing is definately not my game, hehe

[turbo]

I attended VidFest (http://www.vidfest.com/) this week and had to walk out of a forum..
I was so mad.. my heart was pounding!
I had raised my hand 3 times to speak but was ignored..

What made me so angry??
One who shall remain nameless.. a spokesperson speaking for Nintendo.. said "Indie gaming does not exist"
and went on to spew more negative verbiage.

We held #1 hot pick and download for 7 straight days..
Apple (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/games/action_adventure/)

And this is just the beginning.
At our height after release when typing 'KrabbitWorld' into google we came up with 1.65 million refs.

[Anthony Flack]

I had raised my hand 3 times to speak but was ignored..

Perhaps you don't exist.

[turbo]

indeed

(female independent game dev? published title? impossible!) ;)