Slate Article - Why There Are No Indie Video Games

[Mark Currie]

Thought you guys might find this an interesting read.

http://www.slate.com/id/2142453

The article mentions Stardock and Greg Costikyan of Manifesto Games.

[Ricardo C]

I wonder why that piece didn't go into the portal industry, or niche devs who've been distributing their games online for years already.

A quote from James Smith, Cliff Harris, Steve Verreault, or hell, Steve Pavlina would have been much truer to reality than yet more hype from/for Costikyan.

[svero]

I read that article yesterday but decided against posting a link to it because the author seemed a little out of touch with what's happening, especially with the new consoles. Low cost dev kits and online/download shops like xbox live arcade are actually opening up consoles to indie developers. Not all the games selling on xbox are million dollar productions.

[DrWilloughby]

Reposting here my reply on their forums... agreed the author seems out of touch.

The author hasn't done his research.

'Titanic' Gross: $1,835 million
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/1997/TITAN.html

'Napolean Dynamite' Gross: $45 million
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2004/NPDYN.php

'Halo' Gross: ~$300 million (600 million for Halo 1 and 2)
http://www.forbes.com/digitalentertainment/2005/06/07/cx_variety_0607halo.html

"Top Selling games in the casual space per year": $1.5MM-$7MM
http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/3/10029

Meaning that a conservative estimate is that a *TOP* selling game in the casual space is going to gross over $15MM, total. A game like Diner Dash has assuredly done just that, and that game was made by a very indie company.

So what are the percentages? Indie vs Big-budget?
Movies: 2.5%
Games: 5%

The author is operating on speculation and hype-volume, not on numbers.

By the way, my company's game, Wildlife Tycoon: Venture Africa (www.wildlifetycoon.com), which was an IGF finalist and a Slamdance finalist, is currently being distributed in every major US chain, including Wal-Mart. During the development of the title, my company had a full-time staff of 1. Making an indie game that percentage-wise is a hit as compared to big-budget titles is certainly possible.

The author simply hasn't done his research.

[terin]

I took the time to e-mail this author within a few hours of this article being posted: Here is the correspondence.

*Original E-mail to Luke*

Hi Luke,

I don’t think we’ve had the pleasure to be introduced, so don’t take this the wrong way: But your article on Slate and Indie games was a poorly researched opinion. As the author of The Indie Developer’s Guide to Selling Games I am inclined to disagree quite a bit that there are no indie games… my book has sold way too many copies for THAT to be true J

What you may have meant to say was next-gen indie games don’t exist… but you’re wrong there too. The 360 live arcade has multiple games that have no up front advances and no publisher interference. I work with one, Outpost Kaloki X, and their next upcoming title Cloning Clyde, not to mention the various games produced by my good friends over at Garage Games.

On the PC the non-existent indie games have numbers ranging into the thousands. I’ve worked with nearly 100 myself in the last 3 years.

Then there’s the old-gen homebrewers. They’re a little sparse, but they are out there. Every so often someone makes a NEW game for Dreamcast or N64 that is bootlegged into less-industrialized countries.

And the online world is teeming with indie MMOs, ranging from simple MUDs to complex 3D worlds- publisher free thanks to the wonders of the internet.

I’m all for any call to arms that bigger dev houses aren’t better- but this article took a pot shot at the indies out there, and I am quite sure I am not alone in being insulted by it, as if our work doesn’t exist (I’m insulted and I only spend part of my time working with indies, imagine how they feel).


*Luke's Reply*
Joe,

There are two things that are out of my control when it comes to a story like this: 1) the title, which I felt was very misleading and 2) the final edit, which was an even bigger problem. I had sections in my story on Xbox live arcade, Guitar Hero, Garage Games and casual online games that would have prevented you from even sending a letter like this. Despite my protestations, all those sections were cut for lack of space. Nothing I could do about it. I hope to revisit the subject and hit on some different angles.

The real question, I think, is whether indie games are going to continue to have the cultural oomph to impact the mainstream. Consoles rule the roost at the moment. Indies have an easier time on the PC, but is the average gamer going to seek them out? I also think it's too early to tell if Xbox live arcade is the panacea everyone thinks it is. And I don't know if those kind of games are the ones that are really going to move the industry forward. Same thing goes for Garage Games. I love some of the games on there, but I got to be honest with
you: They aren't breaking new ground. And that's really the point. What happens when the next-gen outside-the-box thinking is left entirely to the big publishers? When the rebel voices are silenced, or at least shunted into a cramped world where they have far less hope of reaching the manboy on the street? Remains to be seen, but it doesn't feel good to me.

Lastly, don't be insulted. I wasn't taking a potshot at indies. If anything, I was trying to stick up for the little guy, which is you. Unless, of course, you're THAT Joe Lieberman.

Cheers,
Luke


So take that as you will. I figured you'd all appreciate the fact I took action directly with him over this article :)

[jankoM]

There are two things that are out of my control when it comes to a story like this: 1) the title, which I felt was very misleading and 2) the final edit, which was an even bigger problem.

Why there are no independant article writers?

[svero]

Its interesting that a lot of the stuff that led me to believe he was totally out of the loop, were (he says), cut out of his article. If that's true it must be incredibly frustrating as a writer. I'd be pretty annoyed if I wrote a piece and they cut bits out that made me look like I didn't know what I was talking about.

[Bmc]

Its interesting that a lot of the stuff that led me to believe he was totally out of the loop, were (he says), cut out of his article. If that's true it must be incredibly frustrating as a writer. I'd be pretty annoyed if I wrote a piece and they cut bits out that made me look like I didn't know what I was talking about.

especially when you are writing for the internet and not print... where space is technically infinite (I know filesize etc would come in to play, but another 2 pages of text would be what 5-6k tops?)

[princec]

Lack of fucking space??? This is the internet for chrissakes!!! Very poor. Won't be visiting that site again in a hurry.

Cas :)

[Allen Varney]

For "lack of space" I'm sure he meant "length." The limiting factor isn't physical space, obviously, but the publisher's budget for the article. If Slate pays by the word, the editor will cut the piece to a length that fits his budget.

I write for online magazines and have made the same verbal slip-up myself.

[princec]

Fundamentally changing the article for the want of a few bucks is just incompetent editing...

Cas :)

[GBGames]

Why there are no independant article writers?

Those are called blogs. B-)