Being Paranoid.

[Gilzu]

Exaggerating or not, I always think of the worst senario: my game on walmart (or other store) without me knowing about it. Someone hacks a version, and sells it via a big chain store on his own. without me knowing about it.

Had these thought of someone on this forum congratulate me for getting a deal with a retailer, and me saying: what?

I know it sounds paranoid, but how do you prevent such cases? are there any legal measurment that can prevent these kind of acts? or at least scare off?

and how DO you deal with such retailer that sells your game? ever happened to you?

[arcadetown]

Sounds more like a good scenario as getting at Walmart should generate a boat load of sales then just sue the pants off whoever put it there, assuming they didn't have your permission. Honestly doubt you have much to worry about there.

[george]

the only time i've heard of things like this happening is if you make a deal with a crooked publishing company (which many are, so i've heard). but other than that, i don't think some 19 year old hacker from india can hexedit your program and then make a major publishing deal with walmart :)

on the other hand, it happens a lot selling shareware online. some kid from india will hexedit the URLs in your executable to make it point to his website and then people will use his online order form instead of yours, and he pockets the money. i posted about an article related to this in this forum a long time ago.

of course if you are serious about your business, take the necessary legal steps: register your trademark, incorporate/LLC, etc.

[Sakura Games]

on the other hand, it happens a lot selling shareware online. some kid from india will hexedit the URLs in your executable to make it point to his website and then people will use his online order form instead of yours, and he pockets the money. i posted about an article related to this in this forum a long time ago.

Yes but if that happens, since the pirate must use a payment system like paypal, you can just report it and close permanently his account and hopefully even refund back all customers so in the end he gets nothing...

[kay.altos]

Yes it's possible but I have never heard about it. I think sales generated by big portals is much higher than on suck tricky sites.

[Davaris]

I think if you had a game that sold well enough for it to be profitable to do this (rebranding and selling it at Walmart), then I think you would have enough money and people working for you to protect it. :)

[Tom Gilleland]

...and sells it via a big chain store on his own. without me knowing about it...
I've had this very thing happen to me. A small company took one of our discount retail game titles and put their own intro screen on the product and then made some packaging and sold it thru a variety of retailers, and who knows what other channels. Imagine my surprise when I walked into CompUSA and found this counterfeit product on the shelf directly above my real product. The product is EXACTLY the same except the counterfeit version has an extra intro screen.

So, a partner and myself got a high powered, intellectual property lawyer and went after the guy. We were able to get the product pulled from some retailers and online companies, but in some cases it hurt us as much as the counterfeiter. One retailer said they did not want to get in the middle of a war and just killed both accounts! We had some successes and it was a long process, but the overall cost was too high. After about $20,000 in lawyer fees, and countless hours we had to stop pursuing the guy. We also found out that this guy had done this to other developers over the years. One developer had gone thru the entire civil legal process at the cost of $60,000 and had won the case and still collected nothing. The counterfeiter just transfered all his assets to a new corporation the day before the final judgement, dissolved his original corporation, and continued business as usual the next day.

So basically I learned some important lessons from all this.
1. Lawyers are very expensive and should only be used for defense purposes. (And sparingly at that.)
2. Civil law is only effective for corporations that have reputations to protect. (Mostly medium and large size corporations.)
3. Civil law for "Bad guys in the know" is a "Choose to participate" system.
4. Even if you win a civil case against a small company, you most likely will not be able to collect anything.
5. There are bad, smart people out there who will directly steal from you and feel no remorse whatsoever. To them it is a system to be gamed.
6. For us little guys with limited resources, filing trademarks is pretty much useless.
7. Copyright law is mostly set up as a business tool for large corporations.

Now criminal law is a whole different ball game, but it is nearly impossible to get a criminal case picked up for us small developers. They are just too busy with other big-dollar, big-connection, or big-politic cases.

Tom

[Jonas]

I think if you had a game that sold well enough for it to be profitable to do this (rebranding and selling it at Walmart), then I think you would have enough money and people working for you to protect it. :)

OR, if you make a game that is remotely profitable, somone will clone it and possibly do it better.

Realisticly, the liablity of stealing a game is not something most folks will do (although they will on occasion, more so in say asia), they will just copy the idea or basic implientation. It's not an easy thing to protect.

That's the problem with 1000's of hungry developers ( some that 5 bucks a day would make them feel rich) with time on thier hands, or Mega-Devhouses that just have to look your way and smell money to one up ya 2 times over. Little games are all the rage even for the titains.

Sigh. The deeper you go into the matrix, the more you understand the things you think are important aren't as big of a deal as you thought. I'd worry more about whos gunning for you than whos gonna risk selling your game at wally world ;)

In that Sense, paranioa is a probalby good thing, and healthy I suppose.

[Gilzu]

I've had this very thing happen to me. A small company took one of our discount retail game titles and put their own intro screen on the product and then made some packaging and sold it thru a variety of retailers, and who knows what other channels. Imagine my surprise when I walked into CompUSA and found this counterfeit product on the shelf directly above my real product. The product is EXACTLY the same except the counterfeit version has an extra intro screen.

Ouch...

Its exactly how i pictured it.

But the thing I fear most, is not the lawsuit or the counterfit itself. Its the fact that someone ripped my game, and that i'll never know about it (I don't live in the US or any other "big country", so if that will ever happen, chances are very slim for me to find out about it).

[Glen Pawley]

The bottom line is that people will always find a way to cheat you here. Whether it's old fashioned piracy or repackaging your product and reselling it or cloning it, it's going to happen and you can't do anything about it. So stop worrying about it, just take some basic precautions and concentrate on making as successful and profitable a product as you can and then moving on to the next product.

[Sakura Games]

I'm very surprised reading that basically anyone can rip-off your games and not even risk a single day of jail or a big fine! :confused:

[princec]

Do like I do and write games no-one wants to rip off!

Cas :)

[cliffski]

I'm very surprised reading that basically anyone can rip-off your games and not even risk a single day of jail or a big fine! :confused:

they are taking a risk though. imagine what you would do if you found out this was happening and had an address for the people (and it was the same country).
I think your biggest concern should be signing dodgy retail deals with companies you have not heard of. That goes for online deals too. Im STILL chasing (2 months on) a problem with royalty reports that implies Im not being paid properly by a big name online firm, and also trying to clarify a royalty report from a retail publisher. Dont assume that its only dodgy russian mafia types who you need to keep an eye on!

[Tom Gilleland]

Dont assume that its only dodgy russian mafia types who you need to keep an eye on!
The blantent counterfeit ripoff was our worst, but we've also had a couple of publishers and distributors get pretty creative in their accounting. Bogus fees, over-ordered product, fake returns are easier ways to justify you not getting paid. Make sure they know you are studying those royalties reports.

Business Tip #2: Keep a close eye on your money or it won't be yours for long!

Tom

[TimS]

I'm very surprised reading that basically anyone can rip-off your games and not even risk a single day of jail or a big fine!

they are taking a risk though. imagine what you would do if you found out this was happening and had an address for the people (and it was the same country).

Under these circumstances (same country or not) I'm a big advocate of vigilante justice. If people want to meta-game the legal system using corporate identities to protect themselves from civil settlements, I vote for taking the metagaming to another level of abstraction and going on the offensive. Depending on the country of origin of the scammer, their own government could rapidly become your greatest ally in your little war...

I guess I ought leave the rest to the imagination of the reader. At any rate -- just get the first game out and then worry about a different one! This way even the most determined attack will only put little dents in your machine.

[arcadetown]

I've had this very thing happen to me... Imagine my surprise when I walked into CompUSA and found this counterfeit product on the shelf directly above my real product.
Interesting story. With the proper attourney I bet you could have gone after the deep pockets of the retailers that facilitated the fraudster. Unfortunately that would also hurt your standing with those partners so...

[mahlzeit]

Under these circumstances (same country or not) I'm a big advocate of vigilante justice
There is this story about a guy in the old-skool days of shareware who didn't use contracts in his dealings with publishers, etc. Neither did he believe in lawyers. So he told people he did business with: "I have $1000 in an envelope at home. That won't buy me a lawyer, but it will buy me a hitman. So don't screw me over." :)

[cliffski]

Thats classy :D. I'm quite skilled with a bow and arrow now. If I can get within 90 feet of someone who fakes my royalty statements, he will be in a lot of pain :D