Java/OpenGL on Vista

[Jesse Aldridge]

Can anybody verify the viability of the Java / OpenGL (via LWJGL (http://lwjgl.org)) combo on Windows Vista? This is the environment I hope to work with in the future, and I just want to make sure I'm not going to hit any massive roadblocks in the future.

I found this thread (http://www.javagaming.org/forums/index.php?topic=12909.0) at javagaming.org which seems to indicate OpenGL will be ok...

[Laser Lou]

One main point I saw in that discussion is that Vista will support OpenGL 1.4 through MSOGL, with other versions being supported through 3rd party drivers. LWJGL supports 1.4, so if you can limit your game to OpenGl 1.4, you should be fairly safe.

[oNyx]

>LWJGL supports 1.4

Sounds a bit misleading... right now it supports everything up to 2.0. Well, but I wouldnt aim for anything higher than 1.3 right now... thats the highest opengl version you get with dated ati cards (radeon 8500/9100 for example).

And... http://blogs.msdn.com/kamvedbrat/archive/2006/02/22/537624.aspx

3dlabs and nvidia also said that full speed is certainly possible. It actually looks like the situation will get better, because the default drivers are actually usable (there is some speed penalty since it used dx under the hood, but it will be certainly better than software rendering).

[Fabio]

Radeon 8500/9100 (same chip) do v1.4 very well, however, there are some cards (even GeForce which are very renowed for their good OpenGL support) which emulate some extensions, making them practically unusable. There are even some Intel (and not only) cards that declare a whole OpenGL compatibility (e.g. 1.3) still missing some lower (e.g. 1.2) extensions.

In short: NEVER NEVER NEVER rely on an extension as being available and well working by just checking for the whole OpenGL version (1.3, 1.4, etc..).

You should ALWAYS test if the specific extension you need is supported AND fast enough (runtime benchmark! maybe at first run automatically, and then by user request).

You don't get it easier than this, if you want to spend your time developing and enjoying life rather than hearing user complaints or doing support service every day.

[Teq]

Depends on the complexity of the app in question I should imagine, can't see me needing to bench a puzzle game :D

[oNyx]

>Radeon 8500/9100 (same chip) do v1.4 very well

No, they dont. For one the highest version string you'll ever get starts with 1.3 and they dont support depth textures for example.

[gmcbay]

A lot of the Slashdot type crowd (people who spell Microsoft with a $ and think that's clever) have been whining about the fact that OpenGL is mainly just a layer on top of Direct3D in Vista, but this is actually great for casual game development because you no longer have to worry about the "shoddy OpenGL driver" issue. If the card has a decent D3D driver, it has a decent OpenGL driver. Awesome!

Of course, it will be years before Vista is in widespread enough use that you can count on this help you, but it is actually a big improvement from the current situation, IMO.

[Fabio]

>Radeon 8500/9100 (same chip) do v1.4 very well

No, they dont. For one the highest version string you'll ever get starts with 1.3 and they dont support depth textures for example. You're right.. and I stand corrected.

I have a 8500 (not installed anymore though) with latest drivers installed and a logfile produced by a program of mine confirmed this without any doubt (latest drivers, etc..), now I'd like to know why the hell I was so sure it was 1.4 capable..

Thanks anyway, it's interesting to notice that such a powerful card is only 1.3.

And sorry again for the misinformation.

[vjvj]

A lot of the Slashdot type crowd (people who spell Microsoft with a $ and think that's clever) have been whining about the fact that OpenGL is mainly just a layer on top of Direct3D in Vista, but this is actually great for casual game development because you no longer have to worry about the "shoddy OpenGL driver" issue. If the card has a decent D3D driver, it has a decent OpenGL driver. Awesome!

Note that that is only when running GL in the "1.4 with no shaders" mode. It's still possible to run a full GL driver in Vista. The current thinking is that this will disable desktop compositing, but this may change.

Great point about casual games, though. You get a solid GL driver, and the perf hit of emulating through D3D isn't that big of a deal for that market.

[princec]

Current thinking is actually that OpenGL ICD drivers will integrate just fine with Vista's Aeroglass stuff. See www.opengl.org for further information.

Cas :)

[vjvj]

Ah ok. I didn't know if it had been announced yet or not, which is why I was being vague :D