[Feedback please] Alexey's Dwice - new game from WildSnake Software

[Andy]

Hey guys!

I dunno what to say really. We are so happy so... :D

Oh! OKi. I've got requests from a couple of guys from here so please welcome!...

The game from the Genius (http://www.wildsnake.com/file/demo/dw/dwice_setup.exe)

The rules require me to give the links to screenshots:

ScreenShot 1 (http://www.wildsnake.com/image/screenshot/dw/table1_640x480.jpg)
ScreenShot 2 (http://www.wildsnake.com/image/screenshot/dw/table2_640x480.jpg)
ScreenShot 3 (http://www.wildsnake.com/image/screenshot/dw/table3_640x480.jpg)

There is no any reason to discuss the genius game design ( you are welcome anyway if you like! ) so you just say us what we haven't implemented perfectly.

Your feedback is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

[svero]

For some reason the animations and motion are all very very choppy for me. The game isn't running smoothly at all.

My one major complaint with the game is the speed at which the blocks flow down. On the earlier levels i can match shapes pretty quick and so I'm constantly just sitting there on an empy screen or a screen with only unmatched shapes waiting for stuff to flow in. I think the formula for how they flow in should be somewhat logrithmic.. very fast towards the top and very slow near the player dying.

My 2nd complaint is really just a nitpick. I'd like to have some idea how far along I am on the level. 95% complete.. or something that fills up somewhere as I eliminate shapes. An indicator of some kind.. the more integrated with the theme the better, but a simple number would suffice if no other good ideas come to mind.

[princec]

I too get very jerky graphics, on a top of the range machine. Something wrong with your timer?

Cas :)

[Savant]

Runs smoothly for me.

It feels like an 80's era game to me with the graphics style, the music, etc. Feels very Commodore/arcadey.

So clicking the shapes that look the same is the entire game then? After the 5th level or so I started to feel silly like I was missing something.

As for the brick speed, if you hold down left click on the playing field they come faster. This does tend to get in the way though because if you're clicking quickly and you miss the piece you were trying to click, it registers on the playing field and the blocks move down a little.

[Bmc]

one thing I noticed is that the levels seem to drag on forever. maybe it's just because you don't show the player's progress towards the level goal, or maybe it's because they really are too long... not sure.

[BantamCityGames]

Ahh... With this collaboration I was hoping to see something so orignal it would blow my mind, but from the screenshots it looks like a "tetris-like" game... I mean tetris was a hallmark game... I guess I was just hoping to see something just as monumental.

[Andy]

Progress bar is counted is pretty useful suggestion guys. Thanks a lot.

Bantam. You just play the game at first ( before talking something ) and it will blow your mind. No. This is not upside down Tetris if you wonder... :D

[Savant]

You just play the game at first ( before talking something ) and it will blow your mind. No. This is not upside down Tetris if you wonder...
Upside Tetris might have been cool. The game is definitely based on his Tetris past however as most of the pieces have a Tetris piece look.

I was definitely expecting something more.

[Bmc]

Upside Tetris might have been cool. The game is definitely based on his Tetris past however as most of the pieces have a Tetris piece look.

I was definitely expecting something more.


why? most "geniuses" tend to stick with what led people to label them as such in the first place.

[Savant]

why? most "geniuses" tend to stick with what led people to label them as such in the first place.
I dunno. The creator of Tetris! That has a magic ring to it that probably sets expectations too high. It's a pretty bland little puzzle game to have come from Alexey. Oh well.

[Anlino]

This wasn't excactly my cup of tea. Felt pretty endless, and unsatisfying. Perhaps you could add that you'll recive a gift from each tribe after you have saved them from the ice?

[Sharpfish]

Just gave it a quick go. It was smooth here (on my laptop).

Steve, note you can click on empty space to speed up the descent of the blocks.

The game was not compelling for me after a few levels, I felt like I was clicking things without any thought except quick (and basic) shape recognition. Obviously I am not the intended audience so .. who cares what I think? ;)

Couple of things I noticed:

.You have the speaker icon and Musical Note icons mixed up in the options (ie effects is using the music icon and vice versa).

.No music on front end? (thought my laptop speakers were down at first, turned them up then gave myself a heart attack when I hovered over a menu item

.No repeat sample on mouse hover over menu so you get one shot of the sound and a delay before it will retrigger which means you can move up and down the menu many times with no sounds and then it will kick in - seems wrong. Either put in retriggering (after muting current sound) or remove hover sounds altogether. Or just ignore me and my expectations.

.Blocks were supposed to be icey but looked kind of weird because of the colours, the pattern looked a little strange. Would look nice if "cleaner" and more fun. also unless the colours make a difference (I didn't notice) then they are abitrary, at first I was only clicking red then red or blue then blue before realising any colour worked?

good luck with it though Andy! :)

[soniCron]

I had a lot of fun with it! Since Alexey hasn't released a game as influential as Tetris since... well, 1985, I didn't figure this one would be the mind blowing experience everyone seems to be expecting. Nevertheless, I found it great fun (albeit very simple) and I think its using a rather interesting mechanic. (And the music is quite nice, to boot!)

Expect so much because it was designed by the creator of Tetris? Exactly, why is that? What has he dazzled you with since Tetris? :)

[svero]

Steve, note you can click on empty space to speed up the descent of the blocks.

I noticed this mentioned a couple of times. IMO I don't think it's adequate. The game shouldn't force me to click somewhere to get the level going.. it should just always present me with a good board to play on. Imagine in Zuma if you had to click empty places to get balls to come out then eliminate a few and then click empty space again. Not good.

[Andy]

@Steve. The logarithmic algorithm for game speed increase is in there really. You are just too experienced player so your fingers are just too tricky for the first a couple of levels. :) Try to get the mouse by left hand - that's how we check such games for casual players before giving them a try in our beta team.
Believe me this is not the first version of the block delivery we've used in current game - we've spent not less than 2-3 months on researches of just this separated issue.

@Sharp. Kudos for your feedback Paul!!! And that music/effects icons in the dialog... :D How could our The Greatest One mess them?! ("Coders!!!" :mad: ) and how could I not to check this ("Idiot!" ;) )

@All Thanks for your feedback guys!

[svero]

@Steve. The logarithmic algorithm for game speed increase is in there really. You are just too experienced player so your fingers are just too tricky for the first a couple of levels.

It's gotta be faster when it initially comes in. In Zuma there is NO WAY I can shoot out enough balls to empty the screen. It's nearly impossible. This game should be the same. I should always have shapes to play. Having it really quick near the top is not a problem so long as the average speed remains the same. IMO It just makes the game more fun.

[Andy]

It's gotta be faster when it initially comes in. In Zuma there is NO WAY I can shoot out enough balls to empty the screen. It's nearly impossible. This game should be the same. I should always have shapes to play. Having it really quick near the top is not a problem so long as the average speed remains the same. IMO It just makes the game more fun.

OKi. Counted bud. Thanks! Close to my personal opinion btw.
We were checking this against good more than 20 casual play testeers ( or friends, familiy members etc. ) That relaxing flow appealing to them a lot.
Perhaps we will adjust the speed higher for Arcade mode ( this one was made specifically for my always "make everything harder - this is the fun" wish ;) )

BTW: Zuma - is out of focus with this game. This great game is just much more arcade style narrowed than we'd like to have the feeling from our Dwice (our one is de-facto is pretty closer to strategic puzzlers)

ANYWAY, we'll check what else could be done.

What about that chopy animations? Does the problem still remain for you?
Please drop me your system cofiguration if so.

Thanks,

[alfie]

Whoever came up with the name Dwice should be applauded, it fit's perfectly with the game. It does however mention Avalanche in the EULA, so you will want to change that.
I did find that the scores and bonuses displayed and dissapeared far to fast, especially bearing in mind the pace at which the ice blocks slide down the screen. It means that I dont get any satisfaction from getting a match or combo. Maybe you make the scores and combos remain on the screen for longer and/or have a LAST box over to the left of the screen with the Last Score and Combo's in it.
It seems that when you lose the first life that the pace of the sliding blocks slows down and when you lose the second one it slows down even further. I see the logic behind this, ie the player is struggling so make it easier for them... but I think you do this by giving them a long pause before the ice blocks start moving again.I didnt notice the Ice axe and bomb etc on the right hand side of the screen on my first play, and it did not mention them in the help. They add a lot of fun and another dimension to the game, so maybe you could animate them occasionaly or something so that they get noticed/are used.Alfie

[Savant]

Expect so much because it was designed by the creator of Tetris? Exactly, why is that? What has he dazzled you with since Tetris?
Because that's how Andy is marketing and positioning it. He throws around Alexey's name and the word "genius" like they're going out of style. If you're going to do that, the game has to rock.

[Andy]

Good catch Alfie! ( On Avalanches ) Yes. That was working title for the game. But after we showed the game to some marketing guys they just stated that we would be stupids to leave such a generic name ( Thanks Joanthan and others! ). Who ever got some practice in this business will easily get what I'm talking about.

Pretty useful feedback Alfred! Thanks a lot.
Basically I suppose we don't need to drop EVERYTHING onto the player immediately - this is very deep game by the rules. I have noticed that most of you haven't noticed good half of the whole rules yet - and honestly that was really one of most important our (mostly Alexey's) tasks/tricks of the game design - give to player a chance to get into the game step-by-step.
But anyway we'll check what could be done here. And that's why I say thanks one more time.

REM: The applauses for DWICE name proposal go to our lovely webmaster. But he already knows for sure how we love him - every day. ;)

[Savant]

Basically I suppose we don't need to drop EVERYTHING onto the player immediately - this is very deep game by the rules. I have noticed that most of you haven't noticed good half of the whole rules yet - and honestly that was really one of most important our (mostly Alexey's) tasks/tricks of the game design - give to player a chance to get into the game step-by-step.
But, as is the rule of casual games, you have to grab me right away. I played through at least 5 levels and saw none of this depth you keep talking about. I got bored and stopped. I don't know when you start introducing it but I would recommend sooner rather than later.

[jankoM]

I actually really started to enjoyed this game after a while of play. Much more than any casual puzzle in last half of the year.

My one major complaint with the game is the speed at which the blocks flow down. On the earlier levels i can match shapes pretty quick and so I'm constantly just sitting there on an empy screen or a screen with only unmatched shapes waiting for stuff to flow in.

Did you pair them with same colors too, because that way I don't think you can have the board constanlty empty?

... otherwise, I think tetris is like rolling stones/beatles... it is substance + right moment in time. Don't expect any of them can happen today...

But Andy... if I click exit in game it doesn't mean I want to reset my windows:) ?! which happened both times I did it

[svero]

BTW: Zuma - is out of focus with this game. This great game is just much more arcade style narrowed than we'd like to have the feeling from our Dwice (our one is de-facto is pretty closer to strategic puzzlers)

ANYWAY, we'll check what else could be done.

What about that chopy animations? Does the problem still remain for you?
Please drop me your system cofiguration if so.


Well the point with zuma wasnt that the gamestyle's should match. I just think players at any skill level should be able to play normally without having to click to get more playscreen up.

As for the jerky animation.. yes.. still happens. Im running on a HP Pavillion Laptop with an intel 915GM graphics board.

- S

[Andy]

But Andy... if I click exit in game it doesn't mean I want to reset my windows:) ?! which happened both times I did it

F**k! :(

Your configuration please Janko. Saying honestly you are the first with such and awful for us issue reported...

[electronicStar]

Andy , don't be mad at me, but I didn't enjoy this game at all. For me it has no fun whatsoever.
The problem is that it doesn't challenge my intelligence as a good puzzler should.
If it take the analogy to Tetris for example, in TETRIS you could find new tactics that made the game interesting and where rewarding because they made you feel intelligent. And you could impose additional challenges upon yourself (like trying to clear 4 lines at once, or leaving the pieces fall for a little while before starting to play)
Not in this game, it's just a matter of identifying the pieces fast and clicking fast.
Even the original avalanche( or popcap's "big money") had more tactics than this game (you had to think the order you click the colors)
I tried at least to isolate 2 pieces at once, in a futile attempt to impose a chalenge upon myself(it seems possible if you destroy one piece that supports to lower pieces that don't touch), but the pieces move down too fast and the configuration of pieces that can isolate 2 other pieces is too rare.

If the game is a pure dexterity game then there should be more animations, little characters and things on screen to entertain the player.
Or you could add another challenge in the gameplay.
I hope it helps, good luck anyway.

[svero]

With regards to the line speed... I think it should be slower near where you die as well. And the screen should shake the the little villagers should go frantic. More effect there instead of just a siren etc... Make that more dramatic if you can.

With regards to the slow animation.. i think it was related to me blocking the inet access with my firewall. Once I stopped doing that it played smoothly.

[Andy]

Andy , don't be mad at me

Star I don't mad at all. OKi. And thanks a lot for your feedback.

But when you start with the terms like "original avalanche" etc. I'm just wonder what do you like to get from me? I don't know such game. So why not just try to explain the issues?

Appears like this is just not the game of your type. But this is pretty OKi.
Thanks again.

*gone to find out the original Avalanches*
*wondering if the game with such name really existed in PopCap lineup*

[Andy]

With regards to the line speed... I think it should be slower near where you die as well.

And it does...

OKi on villagers reaction.


With regards to the slow animation.. i think it was related to me blocking the inet access with my firewall. Once I stopped doing that it played smoothly.

We don't care about inet at all. So that could be just the problem going from some third parties software you and Cas use. Such as his games (pardon Cas!) ;)

[svero]

And it does...


Yes I realize it does.. what I meant was I thought it should slow down even more than it currently does.

[Andy]

Yes I realize it does.. what I meant was I thought it should slow down even more than it currently does.

OKi. Got this now. "By game design" as our lovely Laura from MS were always resolving such discussions. :D

Thanks anyway Steve! You are really the greatest with your attention to our tiny efforts. Seriously...

[jankoM]

Andy.... win 2000 pro (5.0 build 2195), DX 9.0c , radeon 9200 se AGP 64MB, AMD Athlon 1.2

do you need anything else?

[Anlino]

I got three powerups piled together, and couldn't remove them in any way except using one of my powerups - might want to change that.

[Andy]

I got three powerups piled together, and couldn't remove them in any way except using one of my powerups - might want to change that.

Really? Oh... Haven't tried to remove them by pair Anlino? ;)

[Andy]

Andy.... win 2000 pro (5.0 build 2195), DX 9.0c , radeon 9200 se AGP 64MB, AMD Athlon 1.2

do you need anything else?

Janko. Thanks.
I'll disturb you a little bit later again when we will research something on issue.
Have you got any accounts in instant messengers? - Drop me a line to my info@w....com if so. OKi?

[Anlino]

Never crossed my mind to try it:D You should clarify that though... didn't come out clear in the instructions.

[electronicStar]

Star I don't mad at all. OKi. And thanks a lot for your feedback.

But when you start with the terms like "original avalanche" etc. I'm just wonder what do you like to get from me? I don't know such game. So why not just try to explain the issues?

Appears like this is just not the game of your type. But this is pretty OKi.
Thanks again.

*gone to find out the original Avalanches*
*wondering if the game with such name really existed in PopCap lineup* I wasn't saying that your game is inspired by avalanche. I was trying to find other games to compare to , and since someone mentioned avalanche in the thread I thought it was related.
But after checking I realize my mistake.
I also tried to compare your game to Popcap's game titled "Big money", but none of these games is really similar and I reckon it's really an original gameplay. Good point.
Only problem, as I said, is that it could be made more intellectually challenging.
There should be some way to make some sorts of combos. A way to make the player ponder between the different moves available and find one that is more efficient.
Right now it's just click and click and click, etc...

[Andy]

Right now it's just click and click and click, etc...

First of all thanks a lot for additional explanation on issue.
We all (well, almost all ;) ) are developers here. So I got no the secrets from you. Let I describe you how deep is the strategy in this looking so simple "click-click" game.

1. Your task is to delete the pieces of the same shapes by pairs.
2. If you delete two pieces of the same color you get the score multiplier higher.
3. BUT!!! If the next pair you delete is either the same color or shape or (even better) both you get that multiplier even more higher.
4. The progress of your multiplier is counted at left.
5. BUT!!! Attention!!! This multiplier is reset down to zero when you collect any bonus (powerup) from the playfield. So you always should work on the decision what is better for you in every moment of any level - to collect some higher points right now or collect some bonuses at first to convert them into higher points later.

REM: Yeah guys! I know-know! My dumb English. But I hope you've got at least some idea what I'm talking about.
REM1: And NO! We don't like any player to get into these complicated rules right after he entered the game the first time. We are not afraid they consider it as just regular "click-click" at the beginning. Backward!!! We do this in purpose. We like them to discover the game step-by-step.

[Andy]

Never crossed my mind to try it:D You should clarify that though... didn't come out clear in the instructions.

Anders!
Aren't the bonuses of the same shape? ;)
Hasn't this written by the first rule of the game that you can remove two pieces of the same shape? :D

[Anlino]

Yeah, but i didn't think that would stretch to the power-ups;) Ahh, never mind:) By the way, are you planning on developing any more games with Alexey?

[Andy]

By the way, are you planning on developing any more games with Alexey?

Sure thing! And a lot!!! :D

[Christian]

Nice game!.

A few critiques:
- There are some "emergency" powerups that are not on a very nice position, its not ideal to have them so far away from the playflied where the cursor is used to be, i think that a better place to put them would be next to the playfield, so its easier to activate them on emergency times, when you need something really fast to save you.

- The first levels where just too easy, i suggest shortening the "practice levels" by one, because its more than enough the time you have given players to get used to the play.

And a suggestion, add more notes when you click on the pieces, it would be much better to make more notes so that when you make many combos, there is not only a score bonus, but something that may be heared as a tune, besides its easy to implement. I thought this on the first levels where i was earing this nice sounds very fast one after another.

I had no other problems, very nice music, sounds, graphics, you did a job overall i think, good luck with it.

[Andy]

REM: I'm basically in stupid position today - to say "thanks a lot" to everybody. But what could I do? When I read useful comments - doesn't matter the negative or positive I just appreciate this. So...

Thanks a lot Christian. This really helps a lot.

[Grey Alien]

I personally don't like the graphics i.e. the font, the shape graphics and the funny little men. But hey I'm just one person.

[Andy]

I personally don't like the graphics i.e. the font, the shape graphics and the funny little men.

Yeah. That's why you are grey and alien. :p

This game isn't a banknote to please everybody. So probably this is just the graphics not of your type.

Thanks for your opinion anyway.

[Savant]

This game isn't a banknote to please everybody.
No, you're clearly targetting a very niche audience.

[ErikH2000]

I like playing the game a lot. I wanted to play it some more today, and was going to go through the quest levels again, but the demo timeout only let me play for a few minutes. Actually, the demo limits seem set pretty well for making me want to buy.

I think because we are getting this game from "The Genius", expectations are a little high. Or maybe even for some people here, there's an urge to say the emperor has no clothes. But I think the game is quite fun as it is, and the gameplay doesn't need to be more complicated or challenging. I particularly enjoyed the split board play on the last demo level.

Some of the "tradeoff" player decisions that Andy talked about do add to the game, provided you care about getting a higher score. One tradeoff I like is that I can click on the board (or hit spacebar) to bring the pieces down further. There are usually better possibilities after this is done, but you put yourself in more danger of pieces reaching the bottom. Most of the time, the risk is rewarded by offering up a bunch of quick matches you can knock off in a satisfying way.

On the first play through the quest levels, I felt seriously overexposed to that one song. It's not a bad song--I just don't want to hear it for twenty minutes straight. Even if there was just one more song that would alternate with the other in the demo, it would be a huge improvement.

The ice graphics seem like they could be improved. I'm not criticizing the theme or general look of the graphics. I just think the pieces themselves look a little ugly. The little flecks of snow on the pieces in particular look bad. I think they are realistic, but having white speckles all over the pieces is unfortunately garish.

I might actually buy a copy of this game once it is released. I'm no great predictor, but I bet it does really well for Wildsnake.

-Erik

[Andy]

Thanks Erik.
So nice to hear such a good comments on our endless efforts. :)

One could think that we just got Alexey name and cloned something. But this really wasn't such an easy trip.

You are playing with 18th ( seriously! ) version of ice block graphical representation in the game. So what to talk about another "unnecessary things" like game design, programming or levels adjustment. Whole our tiny town - all our not computer related friends - was playing the game for us. :)

Music. Well. Correct. What to say in answer? - We will add two more MB to download size. :)

So. We've just updated the version - fixed some issues. So everyone who cares is welcome to give it a try.

Thanks!

[Sharpfish]

So. We've just updated the version - fixed some issues. So everyone who cares is welcome to give it a try.


Will give it a more indepth go tommorow (new version). Now I know about the nuances of the clicking and multiplyers it should add more fun to the gameplay! :)

[Christian]

Hi, i tried the new version, the addition of a progress bar is a very good one... what else did you fix?

[Andy]

Are you really sure you'd like to check the whole list Christian? :) But OKi here we go...

- Music in the menu.
- Shift bonus text to the left - below the counter
- "Combo" text for regular combo
- Snowing the whole planet - intro.
- Small peoples waving on the whole planet - outro
- Link to help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! www.wildsnake.com/manual/dw/
- Text for quest mode: Choose starting level for your Quest and then press the START button
- Music and Effect controls replaced by each other.
- Avalanche name in Eula ( Readme? )
- Sound in the menu.
- The scores and bonuses displayed and disappeared far too fast
- Villagers reaction on avalanche close to bottom!!!

Your are welcome. ;)

[Sharpfish]

I see that the Alexey involvement is paying off via word of mouth. You get a mention on eurogamer (among loads of other sites presumably). :)

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=63710

How's it doing?

cheers

[Savant]

My personal opinion is that this is going to work: once. Unless this game does really, really well I can't see anyone caring about the next one.

[Andy]

How's it doing?

Thanks for the link Paul.

Sells somehow. We've already sold two copies. Oh wait! Three! ;)

We never disclose the real numbers - please pardon. But so far we are pretty satisfied with results.

[Sharpfish]

Thanks for the link Paul.

Sells somehow. We've already sold two copies. Oh wait! Three! ;)

We never disclose the real numbers - please pardon. But so far we are pretty satisfied with results.


Of course. That's fine I didn't expect specifics ;)

Good to hear you are "satisfied" with sales.

cheers

[Andy]

Today we've got such a bunch of additional orders for the game from Germany - I'm really wondering to know where all these customers came from.
Anyone from Germany - could you please check your paper magazines and let me know if you've found something (PM or email is preferable). Must be something pretty fresh - yetsterday/today issue and pretty huge following by the number of orders for the first day. :)

REM: I don't like to disturb our customers - espacially non-English speaking - by such questions. That's why I ask for your help.

Thanks in advace,

[Andy]

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=646850
Oh. Really?! :D

[soniCron]

Congrats, Andy! :) Is that your first retail game?

[Andy]

Congrats, Andy! :) Is that your first retail game?

Kidding me? No? :)

http://www.wildsnake.com/about/
And we've published some WS pinballs at local markets as well.

[Matthew]

Congrats! Make sure you smear "by the designer of Tetris" all over the box! :D

[Andy]

Congrats! Make sure you smear "by the designer of Tetris" all over the box! :D

Oh! Nice idea Matt! I should mention this to our publisher. ;)
Thanks!

[Popcorn Boy]

Oh! Nice idea Matt! I should mention this to our publisher. ;)
Thanks!

Don't worry - we've already got that under control. ;)

[Andy]

Don't say to them Pboy! You've crashed my joke :mad: :D