Why don’t most game portals say who made the games?

[James C. Smith]

Why don’t most casual game retailer web sites (a.k.a. game portals) say who made (or published) the games?

Did anyone else notice that the Real Arcade web site and client app recently stopped showing the name of the company who published or developed the game? I can’t find any evidence of who made any of the games without running the game itself. Three weeks ago Real was listed the one company name and country for each game (either the developer or publisher). Today they list none!. But they do continue to list the country. So I can see easily see that Karu was made in Finland but I can’t see that GameGekko made the game unless I download, install, and run it.

MSN Games doesn’t seem to be any batter. They just mention Oberon all over the place for all the games.

Yahoo games doesn’t seem to list any company names either

Shockwave.com does list “credits” that say things like “Developed by: PopCap” or “Publisher: PlayFirst | Developer: gameLab” but nothing clickable.

Big Fish doesn’t seem to list any company names.

ArcadeTown.com doesn’t seem to list any company names.

Reflexive.com lists one company name for each game. It is usually the publisher (who is often the developer for self published games) but sometimes it is the developer who is listed even if the game was published by someone else. The company name is a clickable links that leads to a list of all the games available from that company.

GameFiesta.com doesn’t seem to list any company names.

download-free-games.com does list a single company for each game. For example Diner Dash says “Developer: Play First” (who is the publisher, the game was developed by gameLab) but Feeding Frenzy says “Publisher: Gamehouse” (FYI: the developer is Sprout) and Gamehouse is a clickable link that takes you to a page that says lots of things about game house “Studios is a Seattle, WA based game company founded in 1998 by 2 former Microsoft multimedia…” but the only list of game on that page says “Related DFG Site Resources:” and includes the games “Text Twist, Mah Jong Solitaire, Insaniquarium Deluxe, Letter Linker, Scrabble, Zuma Deluxe, Puzzle Inlay, Feeding Frenzy”. Some of those are PopCap game!

I could be wrong about some of these sites. Maybe they do list company names and I just didn’t notice them. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Ideally I would like to be able to find all games from a particular developer or publisher. If I was looking at Bejeweled it would be nice to be able to click a links to find all games by PopCap. But at a minimum, you would think they could just display a non-clickable company name.

Are these places just to lazy to do this, or are they worried it will somehow erode their customer base to identify the other companies responsible for the game, or do they just not want to deal with the questions of developer versus publisher? Obviously developers and publishes would like to see their name listed more on the retailers web site, but I would think this would also be valuable to customers.

I am surprised that Shockwave does the best job of displaying credits. They aren’t clickable but at least they are complete. I would have expected the best crediting to be done by one of the portals that started out as a developer such as Big Fish or Reflexive.

[smiles]

A lot of the games have a second splash screen with the developing company in it. I would guess that it's a business decision/need, so that the visitor won't go to the developer's site to buy the game...

[Vorax]

It's the old business adage: "He who owns the customer owns the business."

[Tom Gilleland]

I bet if you asked a end-user who made the game, they would say the Portal who they bought it from. And I think the Portals would certainly want to encourage this. I've had similar experiences in retail where the distributor or publisher "forgot" to put our BeachWare logo on the packaging. :rolleyes:

Tom

[Stu]

I'd say the answer is because the average consumer just doesn't care. It stands to reason that they should care in the case that they enjoy a game and would like to play others that the developer produced. Unfortunately I don't think the average casual gamer shops that way, at least not yet. Many of the same titles are available on the large portals and the average consumer thinks the entire industry revolves around only a couple of hundred titles. To them, the last great game was available on Real or Big Fish as the next great game will be. A good many of them may believe that Real "makes" these games or just never gave any thought to where they come from.

Who makes television programs? Is credit always given to the studios that produce them? Who makes your favorite program? All I know is that ABC broadcasts it.

[svero]

From my point of view there are benefits and disadvantages to this. If you look at something like the movie industry, it pays big time for them to say the new "spielberg" or the new "cameron" or the new "pixar" film is coming out. People recognize those names and take notice if they like the director or producers etc.. So that can be used to generate interest in games, and in some cases help lead customers to what they want. Like finding all games star coder James C. Smith was involved in.

But on the other side of the coin.. if Portals create stars essentially then they might find themselves in the position of having to negotiate star rates. In our industry there are a few stars like Sid Meier and Will Wright... What if one of them were to announce a new series of casual games was in the works and real wanted it. Unlike most of us, they'd have some bargaining power on their side. The sims, or civilization, ultra casual edition etc...

[Vorax]

I feel they will eventually want to make developers into stars because it's in their best interest. At this stage, their focus is on their own brands, but it can only take the industry so far.

Stars generate interest, interest generates viral marketing and grows the industry in a ways that can't be matched by any other techniques. Developers like Blizzard, BioWare, Id, EA, Rockstar, Sony, UbiSoft are stars in the retail games world. Gamers know those names and are eager for thier titles.

In the end, this is entertainment and entertainment needs stars. MGM, Fox, Universal, etc. are brands, but it's the stars and directors that sell the tickets.

The question is, when will they do it? I don't know. They have an opportunity now with developers like PopCap, Reflexive, Mumbo Jumbo...or Vorax Games :D

[arcadetown]

My theory is we're selling our brand and games via it. Not trying to build another brand and possibly have users easily bypass us by googling for that other brand. Besides most developers co-brand games anyhow.

Movies are a bad comparison as you can't bypass the cinema and go see the movie at the film producer's private location (i.e. googling for it).

[Chris Evans]

I am surprised that Shockwave does the best job of displaying credits. They aren’t clickable but at least they are complete.

Actually I was browsing through a few games on Shockwave.com the other day and a few of the credits were clickable and actually led to the developer's website. I was astonished to see that.

Anyway, I don't think the credits have to be clickable to the developer's site, but at minimum I think there should be a non-clickable credit listing the developer or publisher. If someone is determined enough to Google the developer's name to cut out the "evil" middle man, they're probably still going to do it by looking at the company name in the in-game splash-logos. This is probably a very small percentage of people. So I don't think putting a pint-sized non-clickable text credit at the bottom of a game page is really all that threatening to a portal/affiliate site in terms of losing sales.

For example, on portal 'X' I don't want my company name listed on the game page for sales "spill-over" to my website. I want my company name there so next time the user is on the portal 'X' and they see another one of my games there, they'll say, "Hey, I recognize this developer name. I liked their last game, I think I'll give this new one a try." It might encourage users to download my new game on portal 'X' instead of moving on to something else. Otherwise if no company name is listed, there's no way for players to know if a new game is made by a familiar developer or not without downloading it.

Personally if I saw the little words "PopCap" underneath a game, I'd be 10x more likely to download it. However if you strip-away the PopCap name, I might think it's just another puzzle game and may not download it. I think portals should take advantage of the developer recognition instead of trying to stifle it. Especially someone who actually purchases a game, they're more likely to recognize the developer name later on and have a positive vibe. This user might even convert better with new games from that developer. Portals should use this to their advantage within their service.

The way Reflexive handles it, is the best way, IMO.

[illume]

Movies are a bad comparison as you can't bypass the cinema and go see the movie at the film producer's private location (i.e. googling for it).

Not for long. http://video.google.com/

I think people selling music, and videos are probably having the same problems. That is the maker of the film, or music is easy to find, and they can sell their music, or movie from their own website for a tiny investment.

[Sol_HSA]

Wouldn't it be an easy "solution" to this "problem" to follow Sid Meiers' example in game naming? How would "Cliff Harris' Democracy" sound? =)

[princec]

My theory is we're selling our brand and games via it. Not trying to build another brand and possibly have users easily bypass us by googling for that other brand. Besides most developers co-brand games anyhow.

Movies are a bad comparison as you can't bypass the cinema and go see the movie at the film producer's private location (i.e. googling for it).
My response has always been "well why the hell would I want to anyway?" The whole reason you're at a portal looking to buy games in the first place is probably repeate business and comfort. I don't go to Heinz to buy my beans, I'm happy with getting them from Sainsbury's because it's convenient. Same reason I buy nearly all my music from Amazon rather than fishing around on individual bands sites. It's easy. Imagine if Sony sold music but removed all reference to the individuals in the band, or even the band name itself. Daft.

Cas :)

[Anthony Flack]

Who makes television programs? Is credit always given to the studios that produce them? Who makes your favorite program? All I know is that ABC broadcasts it.

Isn't it a legal requirement to credit everyone involved in a TV production?

I absolutely think that developers should be credited; the games are our creations after all, and it's not asking much. But I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen Squashy Software, or my name even, mentioned where Platypus is being showcased, or written about, or sold, or whatever.

[svero]

Well with tv shows we get to know the actors more than the producers and directors. The same is true of films though fo most people and most directors.

[Anthony Flack]

Yup, but the credits are always there if you care to read them.

A better analogy might be books, since they are usually the product of just one or two people, rather than retail games or films that might require hundreds. We always know the author of a book.

But again, that doesn't quite fit, because all we are talking about is listing the company that developed the game; not even the individual creators. I would personally like to see the person who "directed" every game put their name on the front of the box or whatever, just like movie directors do; I think that would be a positive thing for the whole industry. But we're a long way from that point. Just listing the developer's company name isn't much to ask.

If you produce good work, you want to be able to gain a reputation for it.

[GBGames]

I think most television shows will end with a small clip that shows who made it. Merv-Griffin Enterprises and King World follow some popular game shows, and there is that monster at the end of Buffy the Vampire Slayer ("grrrr arrrr") that everyone recognizes. Maybe you aren't paying attention to it, but the credit is there.

[berserker]

But on the other side of the coin.. if Portals create stars essentially then they might find themselves in the position of having to negotiate star rates. In our industry there are a few stars like Sid Meier and Will Wright... What if one of them were to announce a new series of casual games was in the works and real wanted it. Unlike most of us, they'd have some bargaining power on their side. The sims, or civilization, ultra casual edition etc...

Funny to say, but I had a person that contacted me to ask whether our game will be available at Reflexive anytime soon. He seems to like and trust Reflexive on buying games so portals can earn their own reputation as 'portal' not 'developer' :)

[James C. Smith]

Many people are talking about if the credit should go to the developer versus the publishers versus the individual people involved. That is also in interesting topic but that is not what I am most concerned about here. All I want, is for the retailers to list some company other then themselves on the web site for each game to help customers recognize who was responsible for some portion of that specific game to help them decide which game to try. All the games do list the credits for the developer and the publisher once you download the game. (usually in the form of company logos on the splash screens.) The customer will find out soon enough (if they care). But listing the names on the web site could help people decide which one to try first. I also am not interested in making the company name link to the developer or publisher’s web site. I think that is out of the question since it will hurt the retailer. The only reason I wanted the name to clickable is to make it link to other games on that same portal that were made or published by the same company.

Many people pointed out analogies in other industries where it is the actor not the producer or the star not the studio or the author not the publisher or the publisher not the developer who gets the attention. I don’t care. In all those examples, someone got some credit other than the retailer. And that someone is often used to promote the product not just list in the credits at the end.

Brick and mortar retailers aren’t ashamed to put a brand name on the products they sell. I am surprised portals don’t see the value in having brands for the games they sell and letting the customer search and sort by brand.

[Phil Steinmeyer]

I think it's very unrealistic to expect individuals in the biz to become stars. The casual game audience just isn't that involved. Even in the hard-core biz, where the audience follows things much more closely, there's only a VERY small handful of 'stars' that most gamers have heard of.

Even as far as developer names, the fact that many/most games have 3 entities involved (developer, publisher, distributor), dilutes the impact of any one of them, and makes it less likely that consumers will pick out the developers that they like and check out their subsequent games. I think PopCap is probably the only developer/publisher in the industry with that kind of name recognition, and that's in part because they were first, and because people can go to their site, download their games and also play the browser versions. It's unrealistic to expect a developer, usually with an under-developed home page, to develop a real following (and I'm thinking of myself/my company here - it just won't happen).

The one bright spot, where developers CAN develop name recognition with consumers, is in the product name itself. Done well, there is a lot of potential for developers to come up with brands that can be extended not only to direct sequels, but to more-or-less unrelated games. Big Kahuna Reef/Words is an example, but not a great one because BKW seems to be significantly less successful than BKR. But I think the Aloha series, the Collapse series, the Inlay series and the Ancient XXX series are reasonable examples of this. Had Bonnie's Bookstore been more successful, I would definitely have followed it up with Bonnie's ABC at some point, even if ABC was not a closely related word game.

[James C. Smith]

and makes it less likely that consumers will pick out the developers that they like and check out their subsequent games
I don't think it has to be the developer. As a developer I wish it was the developer name listed. But as a realist, I think it could most effective to list the publisher (especially in cases where the publisher helped with the development of the games like what PopCap and PlayFirst do when the publish games).

This is why I say I don’t care about the analogies where people complain that in brick and mortar retail games, the developer isn’t listed there and the publisher steals all the attention. That’s great. That their job. They put their name on the box and get a reputation and fallowing based on the games the publish. That is missing in most web game portals. Most of them don’t list the publisher on the web site. (which in many cases would be the developer because many of these games are self published)

[princec]

I think it's very unrealistic to expect individuals in the biz to become stars
I look forward to pretty much anything released by any of Digital Eel's creators (Rich, Ikka, Phosphorous), Jeff Minter, and Anthony Flack, and PomPom (Mike and Miles). I'm a fan, see.

Cas :)

[Phil Steinmeyer]

I look forward to pretty much anything released by any of Digital Eel's creators (Rich, Ikka, Phosphorous), Jeff Minter, and Anthony Flack, and PomPom (Mike and Miles). I'm a fan, see.

Cas :)
Yes, but you're VERY atypical of the casual gamer audience.

I'm not a guitar player, so to me, the list of great guitarists is maybe Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, Prince, and a few others. But a fellow guitarist could probably name hundreds of them.

[Stu]

I still don't think just listing a credit below a title would matter to most consumers but I do think a search and sort feature would.

Searching and sorting is IMHO one of the weakest, most begging-to-be-overhauled features of the portals. Even a simple "customers who bought this also bought..." feature would benefit everyone. (a couple of them do this don't they?)

As it is now they have hundreds of titles divided by little more than action, puzzle, word, etc. Picking a game amounts to throwing a dart at a dartboard.

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Searching and sorting is IMHO one of the weakest, most begging-to-be-overhauled features of the portals. Even a simple "customers who bought this also bought..." feature would benefit everyone. (a couple of them do this don't they?)


I agree 100%. Most of the portals lack even a search feature. So if I heard that GameX was worth checking out, and go to my favorite portal, I have to look in the top sellers list. If it's not there, I have to guess what category they've thrown it into and hope that it's there. Things like average user review score are buried, if present at all, and 'customers who liked this also liked GameY' are entirely absent. Amazon had this stuff from day one.

For that matter, because of it's excellent navigation, search, general layout, and cross-links based on preferences, it's possible for Amazon to have millions of books, and customers to find the one they want. Portals turn down games they could accept, I think because they fear overwhelming users. But that wouldn't be a problem if they followed the Amazon model.

There could be a portal out there with 5,000+ games on it, as long as it provided users with enough information to avoid the mediocre ones unless they were really big fans of the genre.

[cliffski]

Wouldn't it be an easy "solution" to this "problem" to follow Sid Meiers' example in game naming? How would "Cliff Harris' Democracy" sound? =)

It's funny that you mention this, as I think its the way to go, especially for people like me selling mainly without portals.
I'm certainly putting my name in big letters on the next game, I may even patch Democracy at some point to put my name in it.

I think maybe I'm biased by having worked for Demis hassabis and peter Molyneux. They were both gratuitous self-publicists, and it worked well for them.

[Tom Gilleland]

For that matter, because of it's excellent navigation, search, general layout, and cross-links based on preferences, it's possible for Amazon to have millions of books, and customers to find the one they want. Portals turn down games they could accept, I think because they fear overwhelming users. But that wouldn't be a problem if they followed the Amazon model.

Actually, I'm surprised Amazon hasn't added a game portal section yet. I think that the bulk of software distribution for all categories will be shifting toward the download model vs the retail model.

Tom

[princec]

Yes, but you're VERY atypical of the casual gamer audience.

I'm not a guitar player, so to me, the list of great guitarists is maybe Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, Prince, and a few others. But a fellow guitarist could probably name hundreds of them.
Au contraire, I'm maybe more casual than most people in here... I hardly play games, you can grab my attention for maybe 5 minutes at a time, and I can't be bothered with setup or weirdy controls. I just happen to like shooting things instead of matching colours.

Cas :)

[arcadetown]

I can't be bothered with ... weirdy controls.
Oh crap... must resist temptatation... (sorry Cas for another one of these)

[princec]

Oh crap... must resist temptatation... (sorry Cas for another one of these)
I confess I know a few more control schemes than the average mum but even so...

Cas :)

[Phil Steinmeyer]

[duplicate post deleted]

[Phil Steinmeyer]

princec - None of us here are representative of typical casual gamers - we all know far more about the industry, the different games, and the different players than the average consumer in this space.

BTW, when will there be another beta of Titan Attacks?

[princec]

In a few days.

Cas :)

[DFG]

Thanks for pointing that out James, I have some work to do :)

I think when I first began promoting the games several years back it wasn't clear to me who was the developer or publisher so I made an educated guess without enough research. In part it also had to do with who I was getting my titles through on an affiliate basis and wanting to give them credit.

I strongly believe in giving credit to the creators but I did stop linking to the developer/publisher site for traffic leakage concerns. I don't feel any threat whatsoever by mentioning company names. In fact, it helps my users understand that I am not the original creator of the programs and if there is a technical concern, outside companies must be consulted to resolve the issue.

As for the related DFG resources you mentioned on the Gamehouse page, those were titles Gamehouse was promoting on their site and I was getting through them on an affiliate basis.