jcoleuk
01-25-2006, 01:12 PM
I posted this on another forum, lets see what kind of response it gets here, its a pretty long read for a forum post (4x A4 pages) and the second part is my reply to another members post
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[Discussion] Technological Advancement In A Virtual Game World Such As “Second Life”.
In games like Second Life there comes a point when the developers no longer exert complete control over their game worlds, as their virtual society evolves it works out its own ways of overcoming social challenges. For example disputes between people lead to “law and order” and the “courts” system.
That’s all fair enough but how do you think would things such as technological advancement be implemented into a virtual world so as to make it as close to reality as possible?
One method would be to build a scripting language into the game and let “coders” be “inventors”; the major problem that would bring is that within 30 seconds everyone would be travelling by hover car and visiting the stars, therefore destroying the game from the inside out.
Another method would be to allow any players with the correct in-game skill set to piece together new objects and inventions using a visual editor with tasks such as research and experimentation being confined to the background. (Much like how researching new rides in the game “Theme Park World” showed via scientists, that walked around your park in white coats that research was being done, but you never got to take part in the actual researching yourself.)
Another issue of technological advancement in virtual worlds, and probably one of the most important, is that to “invent” a new object the model for that object would already have to be present in the game. This would mean that the developers would have to define the paths of advancement well before players get a chance to play the game but in doing so would create a world which has only a couple of linear paths of technological advancement to choose from.
How then, can you create a world where like ours, it is possible to invent almost anything so long as you have the skills, workforce, funding and research available without forcing players to follow a pre-defined path?
Which brings me full circle to some months back when a lot of people were so enthusiastic about the fateful LLRGT MMORPG. What happened to it? It seems that the motivation, time and commitment just weren’t there…
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Second part, my reply to another members post.
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The main problem with virtual worlds is that nobody is willing to do the boring tasks common in the real world. Without these jobs/tasks being taking care of then you can never have a truly virtual world.
Picture this…..
Your character in the virtual world is a builder so you send him to work on the construction site. Your character starts to day dream while he is working and a thought bubble pops up with an image of a mini game in it. (See where this is going.) The player can click on the icon or on a link which opens up a page of 100’s of little mini games or “day dreams” which can be played while the character does his work.
I say mini games but these things could be anything from Pac Man to a small-medium FPS which is bought and permanently downloaded to the players computer. The games can have the player’s character (avatar) as the main character in the mini games.
In this way an entire development language can be created to allow game developers to create games specifically for the virtual world which would be another stream of revenue for the developers.
Other things such as instant messaging, a forum (like MN), a media player, and a funny video/images website can all be integrated into the game to encompass a lot of what teenagers use a computer for. The idea would be to make the game so that it takes away all or a lot of the major reasons for using a computer normally.
For example you could buy a computer and use it for word processing, emails and browsing the Internet (any web page on the net). Emails accounts > there’s another revenue stream..
As for the instant messenger, IMVU has been very popular with people so it would make sense that something similar could be integrated into the virtual world. Also the only point IMVU falls flat on its face with is that it doesn’t connect to other IM networks.
Anyway back on-topic…
There must also be an ultimate aim otherwise even the most open ended MMORPG will get boring very very fast.
This is where the aim of life would have to be thought about, what is the reason or reasons that we bother to get up in the morning?
One of the main reasons will be love, the major basis of how and why humans act from day to day but that would be very complicated to implement into a game.
I suppose you could personalise characters faces with images of the players? Or stream webcam in a small window in the corner of the screen from other players to help personalise the game?
A way to introduce aims into the game could be to spark off events in the society where people can either act alone (a personal situation) or together to help each other. All you have to do is look back at the last few years and you can see the things which have made big dents in our minds: (In no order)
The Michael Jackson court case.
Katrina hurricane.
The Columbia space shuttle burning up.
The tsnami.
Death of the pope.
Death of celebrities.
The Iraqui war.
Election campaigns.
7/7 and 9/11
Also other events could be:
Something to do with the mafia.
Alien invasion.
Space exploration.
Invention of the quantum computer (The quantum age).
Other terrorist attacks.
You get the idea. All of these things could be worked into the game in one way or another. Let me take some of these examples a bit further.
1) The mafia example; “NEWS: A huge drug smuggling outfit has been discovered blah blah, the police force is now recruiting talented individuals who want to make their mark on the world blah exciting field of work blah. JOIN NOW!”
2) Somebody tries to invent a teleportation device or something which goes wrong and sucks in a portion of a city and transports them to a new world where they have to fight to survive. They can acquire the help of some of the creatures on this planet using them as tanks to right or to tunnel underground and lots more, pikmin style.
As you can see reality provides a wealth of material which could be added to the game as it evolves.
Maybe if there was some genuine player skill involved it would make the skill more valuable to the rest of the community.
This brings me back to the mini game idea, some could be designed around specific skills, Revo style.
Also, as IRL, certain individuals will have natural talents or skills that they could use.
This is where it becomes interesting; you would end up with some people being good in certain fields and others in other fields of work. Its what creates diversity but making the game enjoyable for all people of all skill sets would be a challenge.
Imagine a system like this combined with the Revolutions controller. Some people might be more skilled at fishing (the relative patience and quick reactions involved) where others might be better wood cutters (fatser movements, greater stamina)
Lol I was just thinking the same thing a few lines up, :P this kind of thing would be a fantastic game to play on the Revo as well as a fantastic showcase of what it can do.
The other alternative would be to combine your 2 suggestions. The player could use an interface to experiment with ideas and then the games developers could add the necessary scripts and models for this………..Of course the simplest way would be to provide the player with building blocks of raw materials that they could assemble into anything they want using a very basic modeling package that anyone could use.
This is exactly how I would imagine the virtual world to be. It would be a very complex system to create but one that would be entirely worthwhile seeing as a project of this scale could bring in a lot of money.
If the available building blocks are not enough for the player to create what they would like they could contact a research company in the game and get them to research what they need and then they can contact a manufacturing company to create the materials / objects.
What the players won’t know is that when the researchers set the research into motion and the manufacturers set the manufacturing into motion it is actually the developers who are creating and building the results into the game.
Mush like the comments above about a virtual world, everyone wants to code the battle system but nodoy wants to code the menus
Maybe it would be an idea to email the developers of Second Life to ask them how they started and how they managed to get development of their game completed.
I think it’s not so much not wanting to code the “menus” as not having the motivation to code the “menus”. If the developers saw the progress of the game coming along in leaps and bounds they might be more motivated to do the less interesting tasks…..in theory. :P
Wow this post is 3 pages long in word! ::) Expect mistakes. :)
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----------------------------------------
[Discussion] Technological Advancement In A Virtual Game World Such As “Second Life”.
In games like Second Life there comes a point when the developers no longer exert complete control over their game worlds, as their virtual society evolves it works out its own ways of overcoming social challenges. For example disputes between people lead to “law and order” and the “courts” system.
That’s all fair enough but how do you think would things such as technological advancement be implemented into a virtual world so as to make it as close to reality as possible?
One method would be to build a scripting language into the game and let “coders” be “inventors”; the major problem that would bring is that within 30 seconds everyone would be travelling by hover car and visiting the stars, therefore destroying the game from the inside out.
Another method would be to allow any players with the correct in-game skill set to piece together new objects and inventions using a visual editor with tasks such as research and experimentation being confined to the background. (Much like how researching new rides in the game “Theme Park World” showed via scientists, that walked around your park in white coats that research was being done, but you never got to take part in the actual researching yourself.)
Another issue of technological advancement in virtual worlds, and probably one of the most important, is that to “invent” a new object the model for that object would already have to be present in the game. This would mean that the developers would have to define the paths of advancement well before players get a chance to play the game but in doing so would create a world which has only a couple of linear paths of technological advancement to choose from.
How then, can you create a world where like ours, it is possible to invent almost anything so long as you have the skills, workforce, funding and research available without forcing players to follow a pre-defined path?
Which brings me full circle to some months back when a lot of people were so enthusiastic about the fateful LLRGT MMORPG. What happened to it? It seems that the motivation, time and commitment just weren’t there…
----------------------------------------
Second part, my reply to another members post.
----------------------------------------
The main problem with virtual worlds is that nobody is willing to do the boring tasks common in the real world. Without these jobs/tasks being taking care of then you can never have a truly virtual world.
Picture this…..
Your character in the virtual world is a builder so you send him to work on the construction site. Your character starts to day dream while he is working and a thought bubble pops up with an image of a mini game in it. (See where this is going.) The player can click on the icon or on a link which opens up a page of 100’s of little mini games or “day dreams” which can be played while the character does his work.
I say mini games but these things could be anything from Pac Man to a small-medium FPS which is bought and permanently downloaded to the players computer. The games can have the player’s character (avatar) as the main character in the mini games.
In this way an entire development language can be created to allow game developers to create games specifically for the virtual world which would be another stream of revenue for the developers.
Other things such as instant messaging, a forum (like MN), a media player, and a funny video/images website can all be integrated into the game to encompass a lot of what teenagers use a computer for. The idea would be to make the game so that it takes away all or a lot of the major reasons for using a computer normally.
For example you could buy a computer and use it for word processing, emails and browsing the Internet (any web page on the net). Emails accounts > there’s another revenue stream..
As for the instant messenger, IMVU has been very popular with people so it would make sense that something similar could be integrated into the virtual world. Also the only point IMVU falls flat on its face with is that it doesn’t connect to other IM networks.
Anyway back on-topic…
There must also be an ultimate aim otherwise even the most open ended MMORPG will get boring very very fast.
This is where the aim of life would have to be thought about, what is the reason or reasons that we bother to get up in the morning?
One of the main reasons will be love, the major basis of how and why humans act from day to day but that would be very complicated to implement into a game.
I suppose you could personalise characters faces with images of the players? Or stream webcam in a small window in the corner of the screen from other players to help personalise the game?
A way to introduce aims into the game could be to spark off events in the society where people can either act alone (a personal situation) or together to help each other. All you have to do is look back at the last few years and you can see the things which have made big dents in our minds: (In no order)
The Michael Jackson court case.
Katrina hurricane.
The Columbia space shuttle burning up.
The tsnami.
Death of the pope.
Death of celebrities.
The Iraqui war.
Election campaigns.
7/7 and 9/11
Also other events could be:
Something to do with the mafia.
Alien invasion.
Space exploration.
Invention of the quantum computer (The quantum age).
Other terrorist attacks.
You get the idea. All of these things could be worked into the game in one way or another. Let me take some of these examples a bit further.
1) The mafia example; “NEWS: A huge drug smuggling outfit has been discovered blah blah, the police force is now recruiting talented individuals who want to make their mark on the world blah exciting field of work blah. JOIN NOW!”
2) Somebody tries to invent a teleportation device or something which goes wrong and sucks in a portion of a city and transports them to a new world where they have to fight to survive. They can acquire the help of some of the creatures on this planet using them as tanks to right or to tunnel underground and lots more, pikmin style.
As you can see reality provides a wealth of material which could be added to the game as it evolves.
Maybe if there was some genuine player skill involved it would make the skill more valuable to the rest of the community.
This brings me back to the mini game idea, some could be designed around specific skills, Revo style.
Also, as IRL, certain individuals will have natural talents or skills that they could use.
This is where it becomes interesting; you would end up with some people being good in certain fields and others in other fields of work. Its what creates diversity but making the game enjoyable for all people of all skill sets would be a challenge.
Imagine a system like this combined with the Revolutions controller. Some people might be more skilled at fishing (the relative patience and quick reactions involved) where others might be better wood cutters (fatser movements, greater stamina)
Lol I was just thinking the same thing a few lines up, :P this kind of thing would be a fantastic game to play on the Revo as well as a fantastic showcase of what it can do.
The other alternative would be to combine your 2 suggestions. The player could use an interface to experiment with ideas and then the games developers could add the necessary scripts and models for this………..Of course the simplest way would be to provide the player with building blocks of raw materials that they could assemble into anything they want using a very basic modeling package that anyone could use.
This is exactly how I would imagine the virtual world to be. It would be a very complex system to create but one that would be entirely worthwhile seeing as a project of this scale could bring in a lot of money.
If the available building blocks are not enough for the player to create what they would like they could contact a research company in the game and get them to research what they need and then they can contact a manufacturing company to create the materials / objects.
What the players won’t know is that when the researchers set the research into motion and the manufacturers set the manufacturing into motion it is actually the developers who are creating and building the results into the game.
Mush like the comments above about a virtual world, everyone wants to code the battle system but nodoy wants to code the menus
Maybe it would be an idea to email the developers of Second Life to ask them how they started and how they managed to get development of their game completed.
I think it’s not so much not wanting to code the “menus” as not having the motivation to code the “menus”. If the developers saw the progress of the game coming along in leaps and bounds they might be more motivated to do the less interesting tasks…..in theory. :P
Wow this post is 3 pages long in word! ::) Expect mistakes. :)
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