Big Kahuna Words rather than BKR2 and other sequel issues

[berserker]

I sure hope grandma likes Big Kahuna Words better than Acropolis.

I wonder why you decided to make Big Kahuna Words instead of Big Kahuna Reef 2 ?
IMHO, BKR was a great game that was screaming for a sequel.

[James C. Smith]

I wonder why you decided to make Big Kahuna Words instead of Big Kahuna Reef 2 ?
IMHO, BKR was a great game that was screaming for a sequel.

Why would you say we made BKW instead of BKR2? Maybe we are doing both. I just think it is too soon to release a BKR sequel. It is only 12 months old and still in the top 10 charts on many major sights. Releasing a BKR2 right now would kill the great sales we still get of BKR1. FYI: BKR is now available on in WalMart for Mac and PC. And MSN is running a BKR promotion right now (not a sale).

[berserker]

Releasing a BKR2 right now would kill the great sales we still get of BKR1.

I see. Weird, there are number of examples of different practices like Aloha Solitaire -> Aloha Tripeaks, Cosmic Bugs -> Water Bugs, and most recent Luxor -> Luxor : Amun Rising. I wonder if MumboJumbo killed their Luxor sales with Luxor:AR.

EDIT: I almost forgot about your own Ricochet: Lost Worlds -> Ricochet Recharged. What is different now with BKR?

[James C. Smith]

There are many factors that make each case very different.

Some if it depends on if you can successfully “extend a product line” versus make a “squeal”. I don’t think anyone would buy Bejeweled if they already owned Bejeweled 2. But I am sure many people would love to by Cosmic bugs after they finished Water Bugs.

Another factor is how cheaply you can make the sequel. If a sequel like Ricochet Recharged will likely kill the sales of the original, but it will increase overall sales by more than the cost to make it, then it can be a good thing. Major variables here include how well the original is still doing and how inexpensive the sequel can be to make.

Another factor is long term vs. short term goals. If you need to quickly address a short term cash flow problem than a sequel (that is really nothing more than a level add-on pack) can help. But if you care about your long term company image and brand image, then you don’t want to do this too many times or people start to be less interested in your “new” releases.

Another factor is who owns the game and who owns the sequel right. In a very hypothetical scenario: If I had originally sold the exclusive distribution right for BKR to a publisher like Game House, but my contract with them allowed me to make equals and own them myself, then I would be much quicker to make a sequel. I think this may factor into one of the sequels you mentioned.

[James C. Smith]

I moved these posts into their own topic so people could comment freely on this issue without derailing the RealArcade top 10 thread.

[berserker]

Okay so let's continue. What do you think about Inlay series from GameHouse - those games are almost the same, still there is a bunch of them and they did relatively well?

P.S. BKR is a great game that inspired me quite a bit, I wish you luck with BKR sequel when you'll decide to roll it out. (personally I was unable to wait longer to see it - had to put together my own version :D )

[James C. Smith]

I don't know. Does anyone else care to weigh in an opinion or observation about Inlay or the broader topic? I just can't get excited about Inlay enough to figure out what makes each version different. They may each be very different or all nearly identical. I never looked beyond the first one.

[Mike Boeh]

The interesting thing about these types of "sequels" is that the true fans really see and appreciate the differences between the games.

People who thought Water Bugs was just like Cosmic Bugs only played both games briefly and didn't buy. But the people who bought Cosmic Bugs immediately noticed the differences and liked Water Bugs as its own game....

So that's probably why you don't see much difference in the Inlay games, James...

[berserker]

Ok, now we have some fresh examples - Mystery Case Files: Huntsville and Prime Suspects. Seems like those two games confirm my theory about cashing in on successful idea instead of letting it live and been outsold by number of follow-up clones from other parties.

James, do you still think that sequel will kill sales of it's original?
Considering that online market is very different from retail I think this in not gonna be the case. In my opinion Prime Suspects will somewhat decrease sales of Huntsville but definitely not kill it. I think we will see a lot of such examples in the future.

[svero]

I dont think we're actually seeing sequels right now. We're seeing an industry response to a few things...

1) broken sales systems
2) clones

I've said this before but it fits here so... with Aargon I would have made 50-60% less money without level packs and add-ons. But portals have nothing to make the most out of the games they sell. You have all these companies hoping to put out hits like jewel quest and zuma and then when thy do finally manage to make a hit they move on to the next game and maybe put out a few misses before the next hit. It is absolutely insane for us not to be making the most we can of out a game when it does rarely hit, but that's exactly what we do. How many people would have bought 30 extra levels for zuma if it was a click of a button in Realarcade? Almost everyone that bought Zuma Im guessing. Instead we're now seeing these pseudo sequels like Luxor amun rising, which are essentially level pack add ons. They have 2 benefits. One is they let the company that created the original hit deter or lessen the effect of clone sales, and 2nd they let the company exploit the hit they had a little better. Personally I think all portals should support add-ons and related merchandise in a simple way, either built into the game wrapper or on the sites.

[svero]

There are of course some true sequels where the game has been revamped completely... but I see things like amun rising and prime suspects as extra content on top of the same game engine.

[berserker]

That what I was talking about except you used other words instead of "sequel". My original point was that sequels (or pseudo-sequels as you call them) is a viable way to cash in on successful idea and they won't kill sales of the original. The reason why we haven't seen this a lot in the past is the industry wasn't so crowded like it is now.

[arcadetown]

If was me I'd be pushing BKR2 out the door as fast as can. IMHO BFG had it right with MCF series. Why let others stomp on your territory when you can take psuedo command of it. Am absolutely astounded there isn't a Jewel Quest sequel out there yet for example.

Svero, why would you release a Luxor Amun Rising as a level pack when you can release it as a sequel that gets all new exposure? It may make sense for a site like yours but honestly doubt it. I bet your users would be more excited by "Aragon The Sequel" than "Level Pack 2".

[svero]

You dont think people can tell that amun rising isnt a true sequel? Everyone knows its just a level pack. The players understand it and they don't care. It's what they wanted. More levels of their favorite game. I would argue that it's easier to sell people on an upgrade than it is to sell them a new game. The amount of money being made is far less than it could/should be.. they gain nothing by doing it this way vs. releasing upgrades and upselling. They can always do both. This is just a workaround for a broken half ass backwords sales system.

Here you've got portals all running around trying to out 7$ themselves and there are no add-ons or anything for all the extremely rare hits that devs are struggling to put out. Even the top developers can't release consistent hits. When they do get a hit they're just like.. ehn why bother making money with this.. lets just make another game. Even this pseudo sequel thing is very recent. It's stunning really. They just throw money away for the most part. In retail by comparison you'd have, gold edition, add on packs, collectors edition, complete set, strategy guide, tshirt edition, hint guide, modding guide, coffee cup, screen saver edition etc..

Typical Aargon Sale...

Aargon Deluxe - 24.95
Aargon Hint Pack - 16.95
Aargon Level Pack 1 - 16.95

Total $58.85 - thats my average price point for an Aargon Sale. A little better than 7$ - What do portals do with their hits? Hey! Get Diner Frenzy now for just 6$! I think its stupid. Not even the customers thank them for that. You think all the people that bought zuma didnt want more levels? I did.. would have bought more happily if there had been a button somewhere to add levels.

As for sequels getting all new expsure... there are countless games that are semi hits that may or may not get exposure. There's some value in the new expsure thing but if portals wanted to they could put up ads saying "Zuma Level Pack : Mystery of Nitza" now available. Buy it with Zuma just 35$ for both! and people would buy like crazy.

[Tertsi]

By releasing Game 2 instead of Game Expansion, you probably get far more press exposure which on the other hand is not that significant with casual games. So yes I agree that the main reason to do so is the portal model.

[James C. Smith]

James, do you still think that sequel will kill sales of it's original?
Considering that online market is very different from retail I think this in not gonna be the case. In my opinion Prime Suspects will somewhat decrease sales of Huntsville but definitely not kill it. I think we will see a lot of such examples in the future.

Sorry. I haven't been active on the forums much lately. I have very busy trying to finish a "new" game. BKR2 will be released very soon. The "level editor preview" beta start on March 1st so that user community would have time to experiment with the editor and build new content before the game was released. The end user beta started the day before you made that post.

My point is, months ago I agreed that it was time to get BKR2 out the door ASAP.

[Andy]

My point is, months ago I agreed that it was time to get BKR2 out the door ASAP.

So nice to see you James.
My question is does your wife still love your Big Kahuna Words so much as you mentioned before or she is playing something else now? ;)

[James C. Smith]

She is still stuck on Big Kahuna Words (BKW) and plays it several times per week.

Long ago, when Big Kahuna Reef (BKR) was first made, she played it a lot. She downloaded lots of player created content for BKR and tried to keep up with all the new levels. But when there were so many that she couldn't keep up she ended up stopping all together. Then she got hooked on Puzzle Word and played that for a long time. But when I made BKW she switched over to that and never stopped.

When BKR2 started to get to a very playable state, and there were lots of player created content packs to download, I tried to get her to play BKR2. She played it for a couple days and then switched back to BKW.

She seems to be in the smaller group of players who like word games better than match 3 games.