Looking for a new development tool...

[Escapist Games]

I'm looking for a new development tool and I'm wondering if any of you have suggestions. I should probably point out that I'm a game designer and NOT a programmer.

I need a tool -- or perhaps several tools -- that are relatively cheap (less than $150.00) that allow me to make simple apps and do rapid game prototyping. Of course, if those game prototypes are good I'd love to use the tool to polish them up for release.

I have been using VB 6.0 and VBA for my simple apps (mostly just productivity enhancers) and Multimedia Fusion for my rapid game prototyping. Unfortunately, after switching jobs recently I lost access to VB 6.0; and Multimedia Fusion is giving me CTS with all the clicking. (It has no scripting, it's all point and click.)

First, I downloaded "VB Express .net". As a test I added 10 labels on a form, and tried to change the first one using:

label(1).Text = "Test"

To my dismay, control arrays are no longer supported and the alternative appears to be about 50 lines and involves collections, event handlers, constructors, and a bunch of other stuff I didn't understand.

Next, I downloaded PureBasic but it seems kind of complicated, as well. And I heard it's not so great for games.

Based on some research, and the comments in these forums, I'm thinking about BlitzMax. I downloaded the demo and while it seems complicated I'm willing to invest some time to learn it if I can use it for several more years.

QUESTIONS:

1. Is there a lot of sample code available for BlitzMax? Free libraries? The Help currently seems pretty sketchy.

2. Does anyone know when the Max3D stuff will be available? Will it be as fast as Blitz3D? (I'm really impressed with the B3D demos and games I've seen. I considered using it, as well, but it sounds like Max is the way of the future.)

3. Has anyone else made the transition from MMF to a BASIC variant? How much did this impact your productivity?

4. Are there any other languages or tools I should consider? I've never done any C programming so I'm hesitant to try Torque2D or the Popcap Game Framework. I looked into Shockwave/Flash, but those are really pricey...

Thanks in advance for any comments or advice.

[Sharpfish]

I would say it all depends on what kind of games you will be making.

-If they are fairly basic (code wise) but may have great 2D artwork then Flash/shockwave is a good choice. This has pros (true "web games", small footprint, easier development) and cons (limiting when you start to do more advanced things, not as expandable or as easy to integrate many good libraries).

-If it is anything like a standard / regular game then blitzmax must surely be for you, yes the language is more advanced than "just basic" but if you are going to invest time into it then in my opinion you can do a lot more with it.

I would suggest firstly examining what kind of games you wil be making now AND in the future, try out demos of flash and blitzmax - make some prototypes to see how you get on.

If you did learn C++ then I would say:

-pop cap framework, sdl or ptk would be handy to look at if you want an easier ride and lot's of the hassle taken out (for 2D games)

-For more advanced stuff you can then get into 3D rendering engines like irrlicht, ogre and others (and make your own custom builds to integrate into your game enginge) - I should point out it could take you a year before you reach the state of a full general pupose 3D "game engine" using these.

-And if you are really hardcore then you can just grab DXsdk and do it manually - that is how I started and ended up wasting a least 6 months (though the experience has come in handy customising open source engines now) then I dropped back (from my heady idealism) to using a graphics engine wrapped around my own (always ongoing) game engine code.

What does this tell me? Look at which one is your ultimate goal (in my case I wanted to do everything myself like a fool) and then drop back ONE. Because you will underestimate how long it takes to make a game and rather than going with "I can just about cope with that with some massive hours of learning" technology go with "that should be no problem if I have a few weeks to grasp the basics" tech and spend the time saved on actually making the game! :)

[dxgame]

If you still have access to VB6 and would like to continue working with it, you may want to check out the DXGame Engine. (http:dxgame.com) Alot of users are using this combo to prototype development because it's a fairly high level tool kit. (And some are making shareware apps too. ;)

Otherwise, Blitz (all flavors) and the other suggestions are excellent. It really just boils down to how much time you want to put into it. Learning something new is always good, but why not capitalize on what you already know?

[Ricardo Vladimiro]

I've tried several engines, ended up with DarkGame SDK in a Visual Studio C++.Net environment and the weird thing is: I started a week ago.

I had programming knowledge that goes back more than a decade back, was just getting the syntax going, understanding object oriented and I'm starting to put all together.

I can understand your concerns, I had those a couple of weeks ago, but with hardwork it's doable and it has it's good things.

Then you have the authoring tools and easier languages. I've seen some great games done by non-programmers in 3D Game Studio and I can't say much about Blitz, Torque, DarkBASIC, etc since I don't know those that much.

Good luck!

V

[Escapist Games]

If you still have access to VB6

Unfortunately, I was using a work copy of VB6 at my old job, and I don't have it installed at home. As far as I can tell, MS isn't selling VB6 anymore as they are pushing the [much more complex] .net environments.

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of VB6? It looks like a guy on eBay is selling copies for $22.00, but that almost sounds too good to be true.

[Dominique Biesmans]

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of VB6?

If you get a MSDN professional (at least) subscription, you get access to a number of development environments, including visual studio 6 (and thus VB6).

[Evak]

I'm a big fan of Blitz3D, even for fairly advanced indie games. Very capable and has a lot of art path options. Good compatibility. And great for 2D in 3D too.

Blitzmax is only 2D at the moment, unless you want to spend a lot of time at prototyping, and the 3D module isn't expected for at least a year.

[Ronkes]

I suggest you check out GameMaker (http://www.gamemaker.nl/). From the web site:

Have you ever wanted to be able to design computer games, but didn't want to spend countless hours learning how to become a programmer? Then you've come to the right place. Game Maker is a program that allows you to make exciting computer games, without the need to write a single line of code. Making games with Game Maker is a lot of fun. Using easy to learn drag-and-drop actions, you can create professional looking games within very little time.

[Vectrex]

this makes me want to get a mac :) It seems like an ideal midpoint between coding and dragdrop stuff (plus it can save windows/mac exe's with no extra work)

http://www.otee.dk/unity/index.html

[HairyTroll]

OK, thread-necro thread time.

VB, pah. C++, boo. Java, blah.

Fluxus (http://www.pawfal.org/Software/fluxus/), Damn!

Fluxus is used in Live Coding (http://www.toplap.org/index.php/Main_Page) events, where developers stand off against each other, coding on big screens in front of a live audience. Prototypes are done in minutes. Changes are made in realtime.

In 15 minutes the Java coder will still be thinking of his class heirarchy.
In 15 minutes the C++ coder will... well, what the heck can a C++ coder get done in 15 minutes.

[Vortex]

Hey, before I moved to c++ I used to use a program called Multimedia Fusion by Clickteam http://www.clickteam.com. There software is VERY easy to use but can make some cool games (some people have made MMORPG games in it but I like it for simple projects)... I would say it is ideal for rapid prototyping and it isnt programming in the traditional sense... :cool:

[svero]

In 15 minutes the Java coder will still be thinking of his class heirarchy.
In 15 minutes the C++ coder will... well, what the heck can a C++ coder get done in 15 minutes.

In 15 minutes the average scheme coder will barely have time to enter enough single parentheses to complete one call.

[Steve Ince]

I suggest you check out GameMaker (http://www.gamemaker.nl/).
I'd second that.

[Davaris]

I suggest you check out GameMaker.

It says on the site it requires DirectX 8. Is this too high? Won't it exclude people with older computers?

[soniCron]

It depends how you look at it. According to an article on Programmer's Heaven (http://www.programmersheaven.com/2/FAQ-DIRECTX-Which-Version-of-DirectX-shipped-with-My-OS), XP shipped with 8.1. The previous widespread release of Windows (98) carried verion 5 of DirectX. Most of the cats on these forums seem to be trying to hit DirectX 7. (Why?)

[Storm]

It says on the site it requires DirectX 8. Is this too high? Won't it exclude people with older computers?

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Maker):
"There have been many complaints for the latest versions (version 6.x) of Game Maker, mainly because the executables created with these versions require a more advanced computer than previous versions. Because of this, some users use Game Maker 5.3a instead."

"Mininum System Requirments for Game Maker 5.3:
Microsoft Windows 98, Windows NT 4, Windows 2000, Windows ME, or Windows XP.
DirectX 5+
Pentium class processor or higher
800x600 (or more) screen resolution with 16-bit or 32-bit colors."

So you could use an older version if you're vorried about the requirements.

[whisperstorm]

I'm using GameMaker for my first major game - it's simply the most accessible ide of the "game making" lot. It's actually kinda of interesting to see how far you can take the tool.