Singapore company Creative Labs screws ID Software?

[Jason Chong]

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/1529222

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=14459&forum=9

http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=50329

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=260180

Doom III vs. Creative Labs
Posted by: Dave Astle at July 28, 2004 9:45:05 AM


According to a post over at Beyond3D, Creative Labs used the controversial patent they filed on the z-fail shadow volume algorithm (a.k.a. Carmack's Reverse) to pressure id Software into supporting EAX in Doom III. The story is being discussed on major gaming news sites, resulting in many gamers starting a boycott of Creative products.


"The patent situation well and truly sucks.

We were prepared to use a two-pass algorithm that gave equivalent results at a speed hit, but we negotiated the deal with Creative so that we were able to use the zfail method without having to actually pay any cash. It was tempting to take a stand and say that our products were never going to use any advanced Creative/3dlabs products because of their position on patenting gaming software algorithms, but that would only have hurt the users.

John Carmack"

[svero]

Wow... that does suck. My next sound card wont be creative...

[princec]

IMHO the algorithm isn't patentable, being far too simple and based on far too much prior art and university research (along the lines of patenting quadratic equations). The gist of the issue is that Carmack can't be arsed to deal with the courts as it will shaft his core business which is writing games. So even if the Creative patent is bogus it doesn't matter because it is no longer worth bothering to fight against a corporation no matter how trivial its claims.

And that's the scary part.

Cas :)

[Jason Chong]

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~tants/tsm/TSM_recipe.html


I got news that Singapore is trying to patent another algorithm, under
NUS, National University of Singapore.

Check this one out.

http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.php?threadid=11535


"Unfortunatly, the singapore patent system is pretty close to the US one, and they'd just LOVE to patent something like this.

NUS recently filed a patent for TSM's (Trapezoidal Shadow Maps)
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~tants/tsm/TSM_recipe.html .This basically puts a stop to any further research into this branch of shadow-mapping, although it's a tiny difference from the original PSM and SSM techniques it builds on.

You'll see more and more of this type of patents being filed in Singapore, since government institutions and GLCs are being pushed to patent anything in sight."

FYI GLC = Government Linked Companies. NUS = National University of Singapore.

[Applewood]

And that's the scary part.
The scary part for me is how dumb men in suits can be. They have made zero money out of whatever Carmack ended up ceding to just get them to go away. However, the adverse "anti-game-developer" publicity this situation has generated will cost them plenty.

I can't wait for the day that some American lawyer tries to sue me for implementing an algorithm that's been discussed in open forums for years (I use the z-fail for starters). Especially as in my country we don't have to spend time/money defending ourselves from this sort of corporate bollocks, especially foreign corporate bollocks.

I for one will also be boycotting creative. I'm sure this won't bring them to their knees, but it's also not like there aren't plenty of other alternatives. Balls to 'em!

[Jason Chong]

Here's the link to the TSM shadow algorithm patent attempt.

http://www.paprika.com.sg/intro/get_tech.php?tid=170


Can't believe these guys!

[Gary the Llama]

Creative and id Software's John Carmack have been at odds ever since Doom. Back in the Doom days John called creative for sound driver support and they basically told him to go away.

Of course, after Doom was released Creative was begging to help support id Software but Carmack wouldn't have it.

So now they pull this stunt. GG CREATIVE!

[EpicBoy]

The scary part for me is how dumb men in suits can be. They have made zero money out of whatever Carmack ended up ceding to just get them to go away. However, the adverse "anti-game-developer" publicity this situation has generated will cost them plenty.
That's exactly the point, right there. Maybe this patent will generate some short term revenue for Creative, but long term this is their death knell. Developers will be loathe to work with them in the future and the general bad relations and attitudes this creates will hurt them for years to come.

And it's really kind of sad because games are what drive sound card sales. Nobody needs a top of the line card with EAX capabilities to use Word or Excel or play MineSweeper.

I hope they think it's worth it.

[Chaster]

Anyone remember Aureal? The awesome sound card company which had technology superior to Creative's? Creative couldn't beat them fair & square, so they sued them out of existence with bogus lawsuits. Aureal won the lawsuits, but folded because they had to spend all their money defending themselves. Then Creative swooped in and bought up all their technology for a song...

[Air]

Creative has long been a master at "good business" over "good products." They have continuously found ways to muscle their sub-par products over other superior products mostly by very sticky marketing tactics ... bending numbers, slight misrepresentations of product capabilities, lawsuits, shady deals, things of that nature. Plus they've never had any support for developers what-so-ever unless the developer in question was considered a good "marketing investment." (ie big-name popular games) ... I used to keep up with Creative's actions pretty close due to my long-term involvment in development of the Mikmod Sound System.

Anyways, the only decent sound card Creative finally put out (in my opinion) is the Audigy. It's actually a nice piece of equipment and it actually does what they say it does (another first). Granted it took them long enough to get to that point.

It's a crying shame that companies like Creative consistently "win." By that I mean Creative's level of corporate success has far outweighed all of its competitors, despite most of them being much more technically superior, reasonably priced, and waaaay more open with developers. And yet Creative won, and won decisively, time and again.

Fairness is a myth... and too often these "rules" only seem to allow for people to cheat without having to face moral consequences.

- Air

[arcadetown]

The scary part for me is how dumb men in suits can be. They have made zero money out of whatever Carmack ended up ceding to just get them to go away. However, the adverse "anti-game-developer" publicity this situation has generated will cost them plenty.

My guess is the purpose was to gain a big name licensee of their "technology" which may help in any later battles. Apparently judges cringe at anything technology so unfortunately tend to side with existing patents and historical actions related to it.