Top-Down Shooter Research

[CabalDoug]

Hello all. I’m trying to do a little research and I’m looking for your help. I would like to hear from you top-down shooter fans out there. More specifically, I’d like to know what you like, and what you dislike about top-down shooters available today. In your eyes, what would be your ideal top-down shooter? What features would be implemented? Thank you all in advance for your feedback.

Doug Linley
President/Producer, Cabal Games LLC
doug.linley@cabalgames.com

[Christian]

i just want to share an idea:

Variable in-game dificulty change: the spaceship has a special fuel meter, wich ill call turbo, that fills when you grab speciall thingies that destroyed ships drop, so, when you want more action, you press the turbo button and your speed increases allowing more ships to come in the screen, increasing the tension, and the bullets you need to dodge, and also increases rewards (more ships destroyed= more points or money), also note that when you enter in the turbo speed, a shield is activated so when you redieve one hit, the turbo is disabled and depleted.

Just an idea, do whatever you want with it.

And check this site out for some examples http://www.4colorrebellion.com/indie-games/, and the game MONO on it, its very nice.

[_6_]

Allow two players to play the game at the same time. We always had that at the arcades, C64, Atari ST and Amiga500, so why don't they have two players on shoot'em ups today!!

[Nexic]

Here are the things that matter to me:

2 Player Mode! (I wish I'd put that in Xeno Assault)
Good veriety of enemies
Good variety of attack enemy attack patterns
Exciting music
Huge bosses
I also prefer games where at least basic though and tactics are needed. For example in Jets 'N guns selecting certain weapons based on the objectives for that particular level, or in Raiden II choosing which of the 3 main weapons to use (Red for lots of weak enemies, Blue for bosses etc).

Most casual games lack these qualities and I think it's a mistake, too many think "casual = cute graphics + basic easy reptitive gameplay". Those kind of games sell okay, but look at one of the best selling shooters on the downloadable games scene in recent years (probably THE best selling), Platypus - it had all of the qualities I listed at the top, plus cute graphics (recent mini success by games like Star Defender 2 and AstroAvenger shows you don't have to have cartoon graphics).

So, keep the controls and basic gameplay simple, but add depth and tactics at the same time. I'm attempting this for my next game.

[arcadetown]

Great graphics
Great gameplay
Lots of action
Cash system with an upgrade store to purchase weapons
Tons of weapons, upgrades, and powerups
Both purchased upgrades, picked up upgrades, and temporary picked up ones (ala Diablo)
Super simple accessible controls and user interface
Mouse control
Dual left/right mouse button, right mouse for super gun.
Multiple levels of difficulty so both beginners and advanced players can play.

IMHO Nexic's Xeno Assault 2 (http://www.arcadetown.com/xenoassault2/gameinfo.asp) has come closest to doing this of shooters I've seen so far. In particular the mouse control and right mouse super gun are what did it for me. Bet better graphics, more stuff, and an upgrade store would have made it much more successful.

[cliffski]

play star monkey. its the best of the genre IMHO. great graphics and a superb bonus system. excellent difficulty and good variety of enemies.

[oNyx]

There are a lot of different kinds of shoot'em ups. Like the first ones with very simple controls. Only left/right, simple shooting and a pretty big hitbox. Eg space invaders, galaga etc.

Then those with actual scrolling. 8way movement, pretty simple shooting, upgrade systems and a pretty big hitbox (or pixel accurate). Eg r-type, gradius, raiden, nemesis etc.

And finally those bullet hell games. 8 way movement, rather complex shooting controls, a new twist (like scraping/buzzing, bullet reflection, something with colors etc), a tiny hitbox and usually there is also a complex scoring system. Eg gigawing, psyvariar, ikaruga, mars matrix etc.

#1+#2 are gameplay-wise kinda similar. Whereas #3 is somewhat abstract. Mixing #1+#2 works, but you shouldnt try to put any of those things into #3. #3 is already complex enough the way it is. There is no need to throw an oh-so-clever upgrading system into it. (The barrier for the player is high enough the way it is.)

Personally I like gigawing most (the second part sucks). And the indie shoot'em ups I like most are parsec47 and gunroar (twin stick and twin ship). Both are from Kenta Cho and freeware.

[CabalDoug]

Thank you all for your feedback. It has helped enormously. I'll check out some of the games suggested above. Keep the lists coming if you think of anything. I know what I "think" people might want, but that's not always in harmony with what people would actually want. Thanks again,

Edit:
Just wanted to add that I just played Xeno Assault II. Nice done Nexic!

Doug Linley
President/Producer, Cabal Games LLC
doug.linley@cabalgames.com

[Rory]

It was while i was playing Do Don Pachi on PS2 that i realised what makes top down "twitch" shooters enoyable for me. While the shooting down of enemies, gathering of powerups to enable me to shoot down more enemies is fun, i feel that the whacking of the fire button is actually a secondary element. A good twitch shooter seems to revolve around constantly maneuvering and weaving your ship through the onslaught of enemy fire. In a game like Do Don Pachi and even Raiden in parts, enemies are constantly streaming down the screen, forcing the player to pick a path through the chaos. In a lot of cases, enemy targets are shot down simply because they crossed my line of fire as I weave my way through the level, unconciously hitting the fire button.

2 Cents. :cool:

[Escapee]

Raiden series has it all that i need as a epic shooter game. I havent really experienced one that comes close to the excitement level of playing Raiden up to now.any new recommendation ?

Yes , Xeno II & desperate is good shooter game that i enjoy playing :D ..

[arcadetown]

play star monkey. its the best of the genre IMHO.
Huh, never saw that before, just tried it out and pretty cool. Game play and effects are great. Wish had mouse controls and longer demo....

[zppz]

As far as scrolling shooters go, I really enjoyed a top-down shooter called Xevious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xevious) where you have a separate weapon to hit ground targets. There is a crosshair slightly in front of your ship to show you where the bomb will hit.
Generally though I much prefer the type which don't have the fixed scrolling. A couple of these in particular that come to mind (sorry I can't remember the names of either of them right now...) are:
1. You have a jet which you can turn left or right as it flies so you can go anywhere on the map, and also speed up/slow down. You start at your base which you can return to refuel/repair at, and typically your objective is to obliterate enemy bases somewhere. As I recall there are no 'bosses' as such but some of the enemy bases have pretty good AA defense. This game also had an air-to-ground weapon with crosshairs moving along in front of your ship, as you sped up the crosshairs would move further away. The dogfights could be quite fun because rather than always coming at you from the front like in scrollers, the enemy planes would often come from behind and hang on your tail until you could reverse the situation and take them out.
2. Similar to above but with a helicopter. You could land the helicopter to rescue hostages ala choplifter, but top-down. Once again destroy bases and watch out for AA defenses, try not to blow up the building the hostages are in etc.

In short I think the freedom of movement and interaction with the ground is what appeals to me most. It really feels like you are in control of the game instead of just cruising along a river of enemies. Also, along with the freedom of movement comes a kind of self adjustable difficulty level - you can skirt slowly around the bases drawing off defenses bit by bit, or kamikaze straight in as you see fit.
btw if anyone knows the names of these plz plz let me know. I feel like playing them again now :D The first one was a shareware game, look and feel similar to raiden, came out around '91 I think... iirc I was playing it on a 386 20Mhz PC! Second one was called something like desert/tank/chopper/attack/command... there was a tank driving mode as well.

[cliffski]

Huh, never saw that before, just tried it out and pretty cool. Game play and effects are great. Wish had mouse controls and longer demo....


The Lead coder in my dayjob wrote it. The full version is very very good. Its one of only 2 games I have ever played to the end sicne video games began. (other was Call Of Duty).

[Leper]

Power-Ups - The 3 Spread and the laser cannon at least! lol!

Scrolling - I'm sick of "Galaga" or "Galaxian" or "Space Invaders" clones. I'd much rather see highly detailed levels with parallax backrounds. I'd much rather see long levels with long music too. 8 Highly detailed, long engrossing levels with 8 spectacular bosses are way better than 100 space invaders levels IMHO.

Bosses that are bigger than the screen - In R-Type the 3rd level was one big battleship. You just went from part of it to part of it and blew it to pieces. Wish I'd see more of that, especially in a top-down.

Speed - It would be awesome if the levels were scripted so that in parts of the game the player would be going SUPER FAST over the backround.

Change - It would be awesome to have some very nice backround effects. Like going into a planets atmosphere and then entering the stratosphere, and so on. Watching things change. Or seeing the level start at dawn and then be night when you reach the end.

Direction - Come on lets see the scrolling go northeast and north west instead of always north. (or forward right forward left)

My Most favorite Top-Down shooter of all time: http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/reviews/zanac/index.html

[clilian]

My all times favorite is Slap Fight.

I especially liked the weapons enhancement systems, based on "stars" you had to collect.

Each star increase your "selector" by one unit, allowing you to select your power-up... or wait until the next star !

IIRC the powerups were :
- speed
- side shots
- wings
- bombs (very powerful, but so sloooow)
- laser
- homing missiles - real fun, except when they began to chase an enemy and turned around it instead of exploding...
- shield

You began with a speed so low it was very hard to avoid any shoots at all, so the first three stars were usually dedicated to increase speed*3

There was also a "cheat mode" where if you didn't shoot at all, the longer you survived, the more powerups you would have after beeing shot. great stuff !

Lilian

[Rory]

My all times favorite is Slap Fight.



Brilliant game.

[zppz]

btw if anyone knows the names of these plz plz let me know. I feel like playing them again now :D The first one was a shareware game, look and feel similar to raiden, came out around '91I found this one. It was called Zone 66, by Epic.
http://www.abandonia.com/games/387/Zone66/Zone66.htm
(As the article says at the bottom, you will need something called 'dosbox' to run it, unless you are still using a 386 of course :) )
Playing it now, the view area seem extremely cramped!

[patrox]

Power-Ups - The 3 Spread and the laser cannon at least! lol!
[B]

My Most favorite Top-Down shooter of all time: http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/reviews/zanac/index.html

Zanac was pretty good indeed ( Zanac Ex was really excellent), my favorite was Nemesis 2 ( european version of Gradius 2 )

Check out: Kaijin (http://www.phelios.com/pc/kaijin.html)

What i'm looking for, is a horizontal shoot them up ( a la rtype ).

pat.

[simonbowerbank]

The best top down shooter i have played is War Angels, and im not just saying that because im working on it.

[digriz]

The one that i absolutely love (although it's not top-down) is Einhander by Square for the ps1.

[techbear]

As you can see from the above posts, CabalDoug, there are a LOT of really good top-scrolling shooters out there, and everyone has their favorite. That's a big problem.

My analysis of the genre tells me that making a top-scrolling shooter is an exercise in humility; there are so many good games that have come out in the past, and players will happily find a way to play their favorite 12 year old game RATHER than download and play yours.

If you choose to differentiate your product significantly, to escape that, the players are often turned off by the difference.

I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue your muse. I've continued to make such games even knowing what I know. And there IS a small core audience out there, who WILL open up their wallets for a good game. But as markets go, it's a tough one.

[DrWilloughby]

Perhaps this doesn't fit into the same category -- but it's close: I like Crimsonland!

[Fost]

Do Don Pachi is my favourite vertical shooter of all time, although in reality I've probably played Ikaruga a lot more because I own the DC version.

As a lot of people have mentioned, there are lost of different types of shooters out there, but I don't think there's any indie games (except a few excellent freeware titles and Pom Pom (http://www.pompomgames.com/) ) out there that are catering to that hard core market. Hang out on the shmups.com forum (http://forum.shmups.com/forum/index.php?sid=81e811ed41a78df2dc285d177000b1a9) for a while, and you'll realise the people there have very precise tastes, and maybe a game that would appeal to them wouldn't so much appeal to a slightly more casual audience. I know every time I find a new 'pure' vertical shmup, Mark who I work can't even gets past the first 2 minutes and thinks it's rubbish, but he loves the entire Demon Star Series (http://www.mking.com/demonstarsm2/index.html)

Anyway, to sum up: If you are making any indie shmups you should at least have played the following as research:

Don Pachi (http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/reviews/donpachi/index.html)
Do Don Pachi (http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/reviews/dodonpachi/)
Ikaruga (http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/reviews/ikaruga/index.html)
Space Tripper (http://www.pompomgames.com/spacetripper.htm)
Demon Star (http://www.mking.com/demonstarsm2/index.html)
Warning Forever (http://www18.big.or.jp/~hikoza/Prod/index_e.html)
Ultratron (http://www.puppygames.net/)



Oh, I'll also have to second Simon in saying War Angels (http://www.moonpod.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1690) is looking absolutely stunning! but then we're publishing it, so I'm highly biased.... :) That said, it's a joy every time Hamish sends us a new alpha version and has to be the best perk of the job!

[BarrySlisk]

That Jets'NGuns is pretty cool but way too hard for my tastes. Too bad, thought about buying it.

One problem with Jets is that theres too many big stars moving in the too colorful background. Makes it difficult to single out enemy bullets when things go fast. A bit frustrating. Don't do this.

[steve bisson]

that mono game was not so good :) circles shooting circles at circles exploding into circles ? hehehe

but thanks for that link , i downloaded torus trooper :) now that was a ride ,
its a freeware too. Definitly worth trying out.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/windows/tt_e.html

As for the Perfect shooters... my best memories are from Silpheed ( the sega cd version ) Rez ( Originaly from the Dreamcast but ported on the PS2 ) and Ikaruga on Gamecube. I think im mentioning silpheed out of nostalgia :/


But Rez is definitly something you should check out if you are planning on a shooter. It may not be the type of design you are looking for but its enough of a show to inspire you 3 games ;)

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/166/166546p1.html

The end of level Fights in Rez simply must be seen to be believed really... screen shots cant do this game justice.

so theres also Ikaruga originaly from the dreamcast but ported on the gamecube ( i cant understand why sega lost the console war )
That game was very good. It mixed hardcore oldschool shooter type gameplay with insane graphics , definitly worth trying and getting inspired from .

http://cube.ign.com/articles/393/393040p1.html

i know those games are big productions but its better to look up for inspiration than to look down , imho.

great soundtrack
crafty visuals
action ( lots of bullets to dodge ) ( gradually speeding gameplay )
Epic end of level figths

Those usually works for me :)

did you start working on it by now ?

[tolik]

Don't forget Tyrian that Jets'n'Guns was inspired by.
I think Tyrian is the best "adventure" SHMUP with a plot on all platforms.