Contribution to Society

[Black Hydra]

This is something I'm sure most of us have asked ourselves.

How do games contribute to society.

Games appear to be the new evil in society (although, I'm sure we all know that the opponents of them tend to lash out from misunderstanding as opposed to facts) and with many media grabbing spokespeople trying to treat games, and game making as (to quote Chris Crawford) "one step above pornography", (although the topic of pornography would probably be something to be debated elsewhere). A medium which desensitizes, devolves social skills, is childish and at the very least a waste of time.

With all of this negative influence coming towards us I think now is a good time to stay positive. To motivate ourselves to make the kind of games that do contribute and to help us answer the questions about how games are related to society and what value we bring to it.

Firstly, let me say that I am creating this thread to serve as an uplifting way we can share our passion for games development and to motivate ourselves by seeing what we can offer. So as much as we may not like the rantings of Mrs Clinton, that is missing the point.

I'll start off, and I'd like to hear what you guys have to say. Why do you play games, why do you make games, what do you feel your games have contributed to those who have played them.

Firstly I think all of us see games, first and foremost, as entertainment. Along with entertainment comes many benefits including stress relief and fun.

Games are also, generally, a form of active entertainment in which the brain is constantly processing tasks. So, unlike TV or movies, where you tend to just watch the events unfolding, you are in control, which allows you to improve your problem solving skills.

Games have increasingly made use of storyline in their games. Some games simply use this as a way to provide a context for the actions unfolding, but for other games the story itself is a piece of work. We have all heard the campaign for reading books and how they make children smarter. Perhaps then, if games storylines can become more mature and sophisticated, serve a role books can aswell.

Games are creative outlets. Most of the entertainment in today's society is left-side brain, where we are forced to analyze information. Games, however, can be a tool for creative thought. From games like the Sims and Black & White we can see that games are becoming a larger outlet for creative expression, themselves. Allowing us to exercise those right brain 'muscles' that often atrophy in a world that most uses the left.

Don't forget the left side! Many games make use of strategic, logic and a variety of other left-sided brain tasks. These games can flex those analytical muscles we need in day to day life. Games like Sokoban, Dweep and even Fizzwizzle himself, all help us improve our logical thinking in an entertaining environment.

Learning. Increasingly I've seen games used for teaching. Now, I'm sure we are all thinking of those crappy games that were no fun because the emphasis was on learning the material not on play. But don't forget the little things. Even a game like Feeding Frenzy offered up facts about the ocean on completing a level. This is an area I'm sure we are to see more of, to the point where I feel that games might even be incorporated into educational systems where they may aid learning.

Imagination and fantasy. These aspects are not often revered in our society, but in smaller doses they are quite important. Being able to look at an imaginary world gives us a better perspective of our own. Looking from literature, The Lord of the Rings is a classic because it suspends our reality and lets us look at a fantasy one. In this medium we can also look at how the fantasy world relates to ours, giving us a new perspective.

Economic systems. This is mostly restricted to MMO, but on a smaller scale applies to any game with a form of economy. In MMO's, players actually can see a moving and shifting economy of game items noticing trends in their relative worth. In a capitalistic world, ideas of economic systems are very important.

Social. With consoles and even the rising of James MouseParty system, games are becoming increasingly social activities. And seeing as I don't think anyone can argue that playing a video game with friends is probably a lot healthier than getting completely plastered (not that the two are mutually exclusive :rolleyes: ).

Emotional. Books and movies give us connections to characters through empathy. Games don't even have to do that. When you are literally playing the character himself, you often feel the emotions he is feeling. I have heard of a few grown men crying when Aries died in FF7. These kind of reactions show us what a powerful effect games can have in terms of an artistic medium.

Uplifting. Beating a game challenge can often uplift you. Beating that tough boss or solving a tricky puzzle can make you feel that euphoric sense of accomplishment. It can give you the boost in mood you need to get through your real life challenges.

Relaxing fun! Who here has ever played Katamari Damanci just to listen to the interesting music and have some fun. There doesn't need to be a definite purpose, it is just fun and interesting all the same. So sit back and enjoy the ride...

So that was my list. Lets here what you have to say. Again this is not a thread about negativity there has been way to much of that surrounding this industry lately, I want us to leave here feeling good about our jobs and feeling motivated to do them!

-Scott

[Hamumu]

It's ALL about learning and mental development. Not in an edutainment sort of way, but simply as exercise. Just as running a mile is tiring out your body but causing it to develop better, matching colored gems for an hour tires out your brain (sure tires mine out anyway) and causes it to develop better. Games are straight up mental exercise. No matter how "stupid" the game is, it engages your mind in a very extensive way, and different types of games will help you in different areas. You won't necessarily learn new skills, or improve in specific areas - though some games will do both of those things (I'm making one right now that I think will help people develop their ear for music, and I love games like Typing Of The Dead that distinctly work on typing skills) - but your cognitive abilities overall will improve. You'll process faster, you'll have improved reflexes, your language centers improve, spatial skills... absolutely every area of mental ability is covered by one game or another.

It's been proven (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4685909/) that doctors who play video games are better at delicate surgery.

Of course, non-DDR games are quite bad for your body physically, but then exercising nonstop isn't healthy either. Mix it up. Nothing's a cure-all!

Playing games makes you smarter. That's a fact!

[Christian]

I have been thinking on this matter, and it definetelly defines my way of designing.

I belive that through games i can affect the emotional state of people, making them feel accomplished, satisfied, happy. I think thats the best way to use games to affect people in a possitive way, because the feelings they take from playing the game will be applied in theyr life, making them face things in a different way.

The "training" aspect of games mentioned also is great for children, they can be trained in a lot of mental habilities, making them smarter, playing games was one of the most important aspects on developing my own inteligence.

But, all human beings play games they want it or not, not video games i mean, games in general, the games of the life. The good thing about computers is that one can reserve some time to apply to a designed activity to train mental skill and improve its emotional state.

[mahlzeit]

Games appear to be the new evil in society
I remember reading a videogame magazine around 1981, before I even had a computer, and it had an "are games evil?" article in it. So it's hardly a new evil. ;)

[Anthony Flack]

A thing of beauty is a joy forever.

[Black Hydra]

mahlzeit - Well, not a "new" evil, but relative to past "evils" such as rock and roll it is new. But, I'd rather not dive into that in this thread.

[Fry Crayola]

Let's not forget the main thing. Entertainment.

I'm of the belief that the only true goal a man has in life is to enjoy himself. Along the way there are side tracks such as parenthood and moral obligations, but ultimately everyone just wants to be happy.

We work so that we can buy nice things. We clean our house so that we can live in a more enjoyable environment. We buy cars so that we can travel further, and we find a mate so that we're not lonely, and have someone to share our experiences with - this makes us happy.

And ultimately, games make us happy. We want to have fun. Life isn't 24 hours of hard slog for no reason whatsoever, and so if all a game does is makes the player happy for an hour, it's served its contribution to society.

[baegsi]

"A Theory of Fun for Game Design" by Koster is a nice and uplifting book about that subject.

[Sirrus]

Let's not forget the main thing. Entertainment.

I'm of the belief that the only true goal a man has in life is to enjoy himself. Along the way there are side tracks such as parenthood and moral obligations, but ultimately everyone just wants to be happy.

We work so that we can buy nice things. We clean our house so that we can live in a more enjoyable environment. We buy cars so that we can travel further, and we find a mate so that we're not lonely, and have someone to share our experiences with - this makes us happy.

And ultimately, games make us happy. We want to have fun. Life isn't 24 hours of hard slog for no reason whatsoever, and so if all a game does is makes the player happy for an hour, it's served its contribution to society.

Agreed.....

[svero]

Hmm.. with all this talk of the positive I think I'm going to have to re-evaluate my life. For me game development was really just a stepping stone of evil towards my ultimate goal of becoming a James Bond-esque super villain complete with secret hideout under volcano island.

[Black Hydra]

Entertainment is of value to society, but I think there should be more. Offering entertainment with no other value is like offering junk food. Sure it tastes great, but you really should be eating healthier foods.

Now games certainly have the potential to be junk food. But increasingly, there are being more games made that do the benefits I'm describing. Now you can make games that are junk food and make some money, but don't you think that it is far better both for your own motivation and your customers to provide something that tastes great and is healthy?

[simonh]

I think games are generally of no value to anyone. The only thing they're good for is passing the time. A bit like TV soaps. Sure, there are a few tenous things that you can claim that games are good for, but overall I think they are just throwaway junk. Same as bubblegum, and Big Macs.

Let's not kid ourselves.

[soniCron]

I think games are generally of no value to anyone. The only thing they're good for is passing the time. A bit like TV soaps. Sure, there are a few tenous things that you can claim that games are good for, but overall I think they are just throwaway junk. Same as bubblegum, and Big Macs.

Let's not kid ourselves. Are you convinced it has to be that way, every time? Just as there are Big Macs, there are also lemon pepper salmon dishes to soothe the appetite of both body and soul. Call me optimistic, but I think it's plainly ignorant to dismiss the medium of interactive entertainment to nothing more than "throwaway junk." Much, if not all, of it may be mindless drivel thus far, but it's certainly not limited to such presentations. Writing, for example, has the capacity to open and educate the minds of millions, just as it can be used for perversion and smut.

[Black Hydra]

I think games are generally of no value to anyone. The only thing they're good for is passing the time. A bit like TV soaps. Sure, there are a few tenous things that you can claim that games are good for, but overall I think they are just throwaway junk. Same as bubblegum, and Big Macs.

Let's not kid ourselves.

Perhaps there is some validity to what you are saying. But really, if you feel this, how do you motivate yourself to do any work? Is it because you consistantly ignore it in the back of your mind, or perhaps you don't care?

And if you generally consider it junk, why do you make games that you feel have no value? Further more, why do you play games at all. Or do you just consider its negative benefits to be so low that it is only a moderate time-waster?

This raises a further question. What is a game. Why does a game have to be junk or at least viewed that way? I think if we can remodel our perceptions about games we can start making something that provides value instead of junk.

I'd read this essay (http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/08/the-medium-vs-the-message/)
about distinguishing between games themselves being valueless and the content they can contain. Sure, a lot of games can be junk food, but doesn't that just mean that to continue our jobs with passion we need to look at games in a way that will allow us to provide more value with them?

[ggambett]

Perhaps there is some validity to what you are saying. But really, if you feel this, how do you motivate yourself to do any work? Is it because you consistantly ignore it in the back of your mind, or perhaps you don't care?I agree with Simonh on this. Let's not have delusions of grandeur thinking we have the power to change the world. Most of us don't. We're providing cheap, easy entertainment.

How do I motivate myself? It's quite simple - I really enjoy making games. Nothing more.

[brianhay]

I think games are generally of no value to anyone.

I couldn't agree less. Escapism and play have value for individuals and society as a whole. There are many games that are demonstrably fun, popular, educational and contribute to the betterment of society.

As one example, SimCity helps people understand how we as a society choose to live and what impacts seemingly minor public policy decisions can have. It is used as a learning aid in urban planning courses. Oh, and lets not forget it's one of the most popular games of all time.

Then there's the plethora of "resource management" or real-time strategy games. These help teach people to plan ahead and balance their goals with available resources.

In the Indie scene, there's games like Democracy and no less than 3 others related directly to the last US presidential election campaigns. What are these if not social commentary (and advocacy for particular views of our political systems)?

I think in this area especially, Indie games could contribute significantly to society through satire, education and advocacy for progressive causes.

Now stepping off my high horse, I believe that even ultra violent FPS games have a place. Far from inciting actual violence I feel they provide an escapist outlet or pressure valve for some hard-wired human traits that are less than helpful in today's modern world. I'd much rather people fight bloodthirsty intergalactic battles in virtual reality than take to their neighbours with clubs, knives and nukes.

[EDIT] Just as literature, art, cinema and music have influenced society and culture over time, so will the new artform of computer games, which in many ways is simply an interactive convergence of everything that's gone before ...

Brian.

[Hamumu]

Maybe you didn't notice the word "proven" in my post was a link. Check it out. Games (in general, not just specific thinky ones) clearly ARE good for people, as a matter of statistical fact. They make doctors better at their jobs. If that's the only benefit, it's certainly a good one. But I believe they make everyone better at nearly all mental tasks.

They also have been a major factor in pushing the development of human technology. There's lots of other and bigger factors, but would PCs have the power they do now if there were no games? Would PCs be in the huge percentage of homes they are without games?

I don't make games with that in mind, I just do it for fun, but that study I linked to does make "games are generally of no value to anyone. The only thing they're good for is passing the time" a falsity.

[brianhay]

I think games are generally of no value to anyone.

If you really, truly believed that why would anyone play (or buy) your games?!

Obviously if someone downloads a game to play it has a certain value for them ... even if that value is passing the time or relaxation.

Brian.

[soniCron]

I agree with Simonh on this. Let's not have delusions of grandeur thinking we have the power to change the world. Most of us don't. We're providing cheap, easy entertainment. I think that is a generally irresponsible attitude. What games did you grow up with? Any that you have particularly fond memories of? The creations you unleash upon the world take up people's time, and in many cases, a lot of time. Some may even devote an unhealthful obsession trying to master the game, and whether you like it or not, you're largely responsible to them. There's certainly no reason to view yourself as a babysitter, and I know we're not manufacturing guns here, but I think it's important to understand that you are having a profound impact upon a vast array of individuals.

If you spent 1-2 hours talking to someone every day, would you say you had an impact on their life? This isn't much different. In fact, it's potentially more dangerous because the shallow level of communication between the developer and player. In addition, you have the capacity to touch thousands per day -- far more than you'd be capable of in person. While not on the same level as Bill Gates or the leaders of the free world (is there a difference? ;)), don't underestimate your impact upon the world -- it's bigger than you think (albeit quite shallow with the typical gaming fare that are casual games).

[Ricardo C]

Games are more than just "cheap entertainment". They are (well, some are) works of art, as inspirational to behold as they are fun to play. Maybe I'm in an idealistic mood because over the past few days I've played the utterly cool "A Game with a Kitty", seen the promotional videos for the gorgeous (and jaw dropping!) "Offset Project", and made my way through Ben Croshaw's terrific freeware adventure games "Five Days a Stranger" and "Seven Days a Skeptic", but I just find it impossible to call games "throaway junk". They're art, expressions of human creativity and inventiveness, with the power to entertain, frustrate, and inspire. They may not change the world, but they certainly make it more enjoyable.

[Black Hydra]

No, I really don't think a game is going to change the world, but it doens't have to.

Most of the benefits I am describing are fairly modest. I don't think a game is going to end world hunger or overthrow dicators.

But why does everything of importance in society have to have an immediate effect? If we focus on providing something that does some of the things I indicated, then perhaps in a small way we can contribute to peoples lives.

If I didn't think games had any value, I wouldn't make them. My desire to make games stems from the fact that I believe I can provide value with them, even if that value is not grand.

Note - Perhaps that part can even be in the form that we make games a more valid route to creating something that can benefit society.

Novels just a few hundred years a go were considered rubbish by university professors. Games are a new medium? Are we going to turn games into works of art, that benefit society, or pornography that is viewed with contempt?

[brianhay]

Most of the benefits I am describing are fairly modest.

But why does everything of importance in society have to have an immediate effect?

Exactly right. Games contribute (for better or worse) to societal memes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memes) and cultural evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_evolution) over time.

People are increasingly playing games in their leisure time (to the detriment of cinema, television and the like) so this form of expression will have an even greater social impact as we move forward.

Brian.

[simonh]

And if you generally consider it junk, why do you make games that you feel have no value?
I enjoy programming games. I find it rewarding, much more rewarding than playing games. And other people like playing games, so I'm happy to create them.

Further more, why do you play games at all.
I don't, anymore. Like I said, I find it much more rewarding to create games than play them.

Maybe I was a little off the mark with my description of games as junk. But would you really encourage your kids to play games? Or would you rather they read a book, or watch a documentary?

I know for me it would be the latter two choices. Games can be fun, they can be OK, but if we're talking true value - the kind of tangible, undeniable value that games give to people - I think you have to search long and hard.

[brianhay]

But would you really encourage your kids to play games? Or would you rather they read a book, or watch a documentary?

Let's not confuse the content with the medium. If I had kids, I'd rather they play an educational and informative game than read a crappy airport novel. Similarly, they might get more out of watching Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117509/) rather than wading through a reading of Shakespeare's original play. Conversely, the Harry Potter series is pure escapist gold for kids and lots of positive, empowering messages that most parents, child psychologists and educators I'm sure would embrace.

Content is King. The medium by which it is delivered is secondary in many respects.

Brian.

[soniCron]

Maybe I was a little off the mark with my description of games as junk. But would you really encourage your kids to play games? Or would you rather they read a book, or watch a documentary? Can you not understand the game, the book, the documentary are all media! What's contained within is important. What if the book to which you refer was a romance novel? You didn't specify...

[Black Hydra]

How can we make games a beneficial medium if many of the developers themselves feel they are a waste of time?

@simonh - You mentioned you make games because people like to play them and you like to make them. Although this is certainly a more extreme example, if you liked selling drugs would you do it because people wanted it? Clearly providing something people want is different than providing something of value?

[soniCron]

Although this is certainly a more extreme example, if you liked selling drugs would you do it because people wanted it? Clearly providing something people want is different than providing something of value? While I still believe Simon's approach to development is unhealthy, I thought I'd offer a little anecdote. I knew a guy, years ago while I was in college, who sold marijuana. He took great pride selling only the best pot that he was capable of growing -- he'd often go so far as to throw away perfectly good and ripe plants because they didn't meet his high level of satisfaction. Interestingly, he neither smoked weed nor partook upon any other drugs. To this day I find it hard to recognize anyone with as much pride for their craft as he had for his. (If you'd like to call it that.)

[Black Hydra]

I think that too often we blur the ideas of what we are developing and what has already been developed.

True, most games are probably fairly low on value. But occasionally you can see games that provide value and broaded our view of what games are, how they impact our lives, and how they can be beneficial.

You guys can do whatever you want, but even if it is a lofty goal I am at least going to try and do the latter. ;)

[Christian]

I would like to say that our games are going to affect people, but in a broad sense, and i think its very irresponsible to not to think about how our players are going to be affected by our games.

As game designers, its our duty to know our craft, we cant, we shouldnt make something in a naive way, we should know what effects our games are going to have on our players.

If emotions are important in life, and if games provide emotions, then games are important in life.

[ggambett]

How can we make games a beneficial medium if many of the developers themselves feel they are a waste of time?
I didn't say "a waste of time". I do play games ocasionally. It's entertainment. I immensely enjoyed some games (Twinsen's Oddysey, The Dig, Monkey Island, Dark Sun...). But that's it, entertainment. There's nothing wrong with providing entertainment. But stop to think about how my games contribute to make the world a better place? Come on...

[soniCron]

EDIT: I'm dumb.

[Curiosoft]

How can we make games a beneficial medium if many of the developers themselves feel they are a waste of time?

@simonh - You mentioned you make games because people like to play them and you like to make them. Although this is certainly a more extreme example, if you liked selling drugs would you do it because people wanted it? Clearly providing something people want is different than providing something of value?

Hey guys,

You guys bring up a really good point. When I first started on this journey, I had this idea that games "are a waste of time." I still had issues developing games until recently...because of all the folks that think games aren't serious and *meaningful*.

Now, I see games as a very huge opportunity; I've started reading up on games and some of the potential of digital toys, etc.. I've also found more meaning in the work I do (I feel that's very important).

Anyways...
Look, the average person will say, "games are a waste of time"...it is up to *us* to show them the value of games.

People use to think videos and films were a waste of time. But now, most folks watch quite a few of them...and use them for inspiration and changing their emotional state.

You may not like the games out there now...so ask yourself...what games can I make to communicate the awesome power of this medium?

Also, just because the average person thinks games are evil...well what does that exactly mean! Remember, 30 years ago...the average person thought PCs were toys.

The folks that honestly believed in the potential of the PC ignored the voices of those ignorant people...and now those same ignorant people are idolizing the folks that made the PC revolution happen.

People didn't think Internet search had any value. They told Google that Yahoo already does search. Now, these same folks are lining up to buy Google at 300 dollars a share.

30 years ago...people thought there was no money in software. No joke. People honestly thought that you had to sell both hardware and software to make money...and that no one could sell software only. Of course, a lot of companies showed the world that selling software only is very profitable.

Well, do you really want to take the perspective of the average person.... a person that believes that "everything has already been done" and "little businesses are doomed" and "no one can makey money doing games"...if you do, then quit now.

Like someone pointed out...games are a medium. Instead of saying games are evil...ask yourself how you can use the game medium to communicate ideas you have. How can you communicate the value of this medium to people? The folks at Google didn't say, "oh man, everyone else is doing search"...they asked, "how do we communicate the value of our technology to people?"

As for me, I'm taking hold of this new medium since it offers some awesome opportunities; opportunities that are impossible with books and video. There are ideas I have...and some of the best ways to express them are through the game medium.

Consider the fact that most folks think games are "evil"/"waste of time"/"entertainment" as an opportunity...because it affords you to get into this industry at the ground level and make your riches...before the rest of the world gets wise to the power of games.

Btw, PLAY is a very important part of human development. For the best folks in any field, work is play. I've been reading some recent studies on the importance of play for both kids and adults. Play is critical for human development.

Look, games may have been used for entertainment in the past. But in the future, there will be a lot of other opportunities for games.

So anyone that knocks the concept of games and play...is ignorant. Do you really want to lead your life based on the opinions of ignorant people?

To paraphrase a famous quote...
"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If they're really good ideas, you usually have to cram them down their throats."

Based on that quote, it would seem that the concept of games must be a super-good idea.

Later,
Curiosoft

[mahlzeit]

I think computer games are an interesting blend between more traditional games such as sports on the one hand and expressive media (movies/music/comics/etc) on the other.

[Fry Crayola]

I didn't say "a waste of time". I do play games ocasionally. It's entertainment. I immensely enjoyed some games (Twinsen's Oddysey, The Dig, Monkey Island, Dark Sun...). But that's it, entertainment. There's nothing wrong with providing entertainment. But stop to think about how my games contribute to make the world a better place? Come on...

Entertainment makes people happy. Happy people are better than sad people. If there was no entertainment, the world would be a drab wasteland of miserable people carrying out work in a soulless environment.

Sure, your game alone isn't making six billion smiley faces. But it is contributing. If it's enjoyed by just one person, it's still contributing by making that guy just a little bit happier.

It's not going to change the world, it's not going to stop wars and end poverty. It'll just change someone's mood for the better, if even for fifteen minutes.

They can do more too - the player may learn facts and skills from the game. I know for a fact that I'm going to encourage my kids to play games, just as much as I'll encourage them to read or watch an educational programme. And I won't feel like I'm feeding them junk food. I know that they'll be growing with the experience.

[luggage]

I dunno - not everyone playing games enjoy them. I know I frequently end up more angry after a round or two of Counterstrike.

[Anthony Flack]

Do you start playing Counterstrike with the intention of getting angry? That would be quite odd.

Anyway, yeah, there are plenty of games out there that cause more pain than pleasure. The same could be said of movies and music, too.

[Fry Crayola]

Sometimes people watch a scary movie, or a film such as Schindler's List. They don't expect to come out all smiles, they expect to be shocked and harrowed.

In a way though, it's still entertainment, even if it's not in the "happy happy" sense. These people want to watch the films because they satisfy something inside them. Wilfully having your emotions played with appeals to many.

[luggage]

Surely that's not quite in line with the following statement...
Entertainment makes people happy. Happy people are better than sad people.

If you've just watched Schlinder's List you're not going to be happy are you? In fact, you might be going from happy to sad after that piece of 'entertainment'.

I generally don't think about it. If there's people willing to hand over cash for my games then I'm happy. After all - we need to eat and pay the bills. It's just a way of killing time.

[Fry Crayola]

Yes, I was thinking of changing the word "entertainment" to the word "satisfaction". Watching Schindler's List satisfies something inside you, even if it's just your curiosity. You are perhaps not "entertained", but you feel happy that you have seen the film.

Well, if you liked it, that is.

I once had an argument with some friends, when one said that Film A was "more enjoyable" than Film B, but Film B was better. I argued that surely the point of a film is to entertain, and if you enjoy a film more it must be, to you, a better film.

Then one mate chipped in with "The Killing Fields is a great film, but if you said you enjoyed it you're sick".

Which kinda means I just can't find the right words to describe this. There are things where you are happy having done it (like participating in a football match and losing 4-0), but they didn't stir up the emotions normally associated with happiness.

I'm confusing myself...

[luggage]

I know what you mean - when I was writing that post the closest I could come was like 'scratching an itch'. But that doesn't quite fit right.

[C.S.Brewer]

It makes me happy to see everyone talking about this.

I think that, as was said, it's all about the content. Nothing in games makes them necessarily bad.

Other than perhaps the dependence on eating up natural resources, toxic machinery, and separation of people from the natural world. But books are no different there, and sometimes the content can put people in even greater touch with the world.

I hope to see people make the games they love, and make themselves happy doing it. I think that good games will come from that.

back to the thread...

possible personal benefits from games:

- social interaction and bonding (lots of family and friends taking turns playing)

- logic and problem solving skills (puzzles, figuring out what the game wants me to do next)

- perseverance (working long towards a difficult goal until it is accomplished, finishing a game) this carries over to other things in life.

I'd like to say that gaming is a creative outlet, or helps with imagination, but for me I think books, are better at that. Games put everything in front of you leaving little else up for your imagination, modern pc games at least with photo-realistic characters. I think making games is much better for creativity and imagination. And playing games leads to making games. Of course playing games lets us delight in eachothers creativity, which can be just as good as creating things ourselves.

[Greg Squire]

Like all media (books, music, movies, TV, radio, games, websites, etc), there are good and bad. There's the potential to influence the consumer of the media for good or ill. Media is just a tool for communication and that content can be either good or bad. Also, just like any tool, it can bed used for good or bad as well. A hammer can be used to build a house or to smash a window to steal goods. A gun can be used to hunt for food or to commit murder. Etc.

Video games are a relatively new media. I remember seeing some quotes from the early days of film about how it was nothing more than a fad and offered very little good at all. It was considered by many then as a "waste of time". Times have certainly changed as the film industry grew up. Most of early film was nothing more than a techinal demonstration, and most went to see them because of the "Wow" factor. But later, better storytelling and better methods to convey emotion came about, and thus evolved film into an "art form". The industry started "growing up". I think the same will happen with video games, but time will tell.

[TamLin]

Which kinda means I just can't find the right words to describe this. There are things where you are happy having done it (like participating in a football match and losing 4-0), but they didn't stir up the emotions normally associated with happiness.
Perhaps the word you're looking for is catharsis (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=catharsis).

[soniCron]

Here is an excellent article about the Serious Games Initiative (http://www.gamenlight.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6), an organization that "presents a rather untraditional but well-defined approach for the use of video games: to use them to explore and teach management, leadership, public policy, and medical skills." And some of you say games are a waste of time... :rolleyes:

[Black Hydra]

I think that the most important part is to take a look at my list (and perhaps additions of your own) and see what your game is doing. Perhaps you happen to be doing some of these without even realizing it, but recognizing what you are doing is far more important than what everyone else is.

The idea of using games as a serious learning tool is great for the medium, but if you aren't making those kind of games, then the fact that others in the same medium are, really doesn't affect what value you provide. I think there is the potential for a lot of value from all games. What you choose to pursue is up to you. Perhaps you, like Gabriel, simply want to provide entertainment (and the positive benefits of such). Or perhaps you more conciously choose to include other aspects.

The decision is up to you, but at the very least, make the decision. Not thinking about what actual value you are providing is IMO selfish because you are exposing potentially many people to a product for a number of hours. Decide for yourself what your value is, and how to provide it.

If you choose to make games purely for entertainment, that is one way to provide value. But make the choice yourself instead of making your game mindlessly and letting the customer to worry about value.

[brianhay]

Here is an excellent article about the Serious Games Initiative (http://www.gamenlight.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6)

Great link! Thanks.

Brian.

[Hamumu]

Here's a really touching story about another side to the impact of video games:

http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2005/9/29/134547/529

It's long and has nothing at all to do with video games, so the synopsis appropriate to this thread is that this kid was born with a problem that keeps his muscles from growing, so he has all kinds of very serious problems, but: "His hands when he was a baby had to be massaged open until his large muscle groups got strong enough to take over and keep his hands open. He had three years of occupational therapy for that, and now video game controllers do more work that any O.T. could. He has developed hand control and compensation at a scary level of accuracy."

And this from the comments to that story: "My nephew, Brady, has Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy and, at 17, can not even cough to clear his lungs properly, let alone sit up, feed himself, or walk. But he can play Playstation like a champ. My sister puts the controller in his hands and places his curled-up fingers on the buttons and then he can play football or race and crash cars, or pilot a fighter jet."

Can you imagine how much their lives would suck if not for video games?

(mine too!)

[soniCron]

Looks like, in a way, the Revolution controller will be doing disservice to the community! :)